(yeah i know that’s not what this is about but it still fits)
Do yourself a favour and be a patient gamer.
Edit: It would also do a favour to the industry if you think of it.
Absolutely
There is a vast difference to other games. The core is fine, mechanics work perfectly, the game looks great, it has just bad performance. That can be fixed.
Yeah… but some people wish for more finished games and that includes performance.
Like I get it it’s playable… and some games release in much worse state but unless it’s an indie game with zero money that needs that early money to continue they should wait.
A company like Paradox should certainly be able afford testers who run the game on a variety of configurations to see if optimization is necessary.
One thing I would say and this is a broad statement - generally you don’t do optimization unless you know you need it. And you only do it after the thing you’re writing is working correctly non-optimally. Optimize too soon, or when you don’t need to just makes code an unmaintainable mess. That doesn’t doesn’t preclude writing efficient code in the first place but efficient is not the same thing as optimal.
Why pay for testing when consumers will happily pay the developers to do it? They will even defend your unfinished product for free!
I am absolutely with you there. I do not like the fact that the performance is pretty bad. But a game that „just“ has performance issues is potentially fixable. Games where the core gameplay loop is broken are usually not getting better over time.
And I will play City Skylines for years to come so buying it right now and playing with lower settings and less then stellar performance is fine and I will hopefully be able to increase these things over time.
There’s just one thing I want to know:
Is it more, or less complex than Anno 1800?More complex but you have less control over what is produced, it’s more about getting workers to their jobs and transporting goods efficiently than making efficient production lines.
as someone who has yet to successfully raise a city in anno 1800 without going broke, this scares me
I haven’t made a city in cities skylines 2 without going broke yet
how are you finding it overall?
More difficult but (other than performance) much better compared to the first game with no dlc
awesome! just finished my new build (7800x3d / 7900xtx) might look into it. im sure the performance issues are going to be sorted soon
So not very interesting to the German in me, got it
Now that I think about it, I did grab the first one on Epic that one time. Didn’t run very well though.
Have been playing all night, the performances are not great, but it’s actually playable for most people with lower settings, and the game is pretty great.
Also it’s a city builder, it’s okay to play it with 30fps in low, it’s not a FPS.
It’s CS2, not CS2.
It’s CS2, not CS2.
At first I tought it was mistake and you repeated the same 😅 .
It’s
TF2TF2 all over again.I suppose we could call Cities ‘C:S2’ and Titanfall ‘T2’?
He did repeat the same. Mwuahahah.
Also it’s a city builder, it’s okay to play it with 30fps in low
In 2007? Sure. In 2023 why should a consumer settle for 30 fps on fucking low settings?
If I was already playing CS1 with 30 fps in low, I guess this would be 10-15 fps if it even starts up, right?
The need to hit FPS targets has always been blown way out of proportion by the casual gamer. But seeing people bitch about their city builder not hitting 30+ is a new low in the chase for unnecessary frames.
30 is the bare minimum for any game regardless of genre lmfao. Anything below 30 gets hard to look at because of the bad frame pacing, things below 60 can still cause eye strain if you’re not used to low fps.
Agreed, I’ve played strategy and builder games forever on 20fps.
I remember playing tw:rome (1) on my xp machine at a solid 12 fps and having a blast. 60fps should be the goal if you meet recommended specs I agree but it’s unreasonable to say that anything less is “unplayable” because that just isn’t true
Don’t let new games hype you! Play the actually released, proven, Good games - Undertale, Ori and the Blind Forest, TOTK, God of War, The Last of Us, It Takes Two.
There’s a wealth of available, old, discount games! Don’t roll the dice on new shit
At the same time I hear you but still I feel like it’s still not acceptable to release half done or poorly optimized products and hope that they’ll be done over time. For those who pay for the product it’s almost an insult.
I absolutely agree, but so long as it remains profitable developers will do it. Skip a whole lot of QC, rush to release the game, then use the launch to gather bug reports and fix those. Costs saved not hiring a ton of QC testers, get a return on the investment much sooner, get early players to pay to be QC testers basically. It’s a tried and tested formula now and it will keep happening until too many people won’t pre-order games.
Why do you care? Seriously, think about it. Shitty products in every possible category come out everyday and it doesn’t bother you. You do need these products. if they don’t meet your standards, don’t buy them and move on with your life.
Like, you don’t need to get on line and act as thought you have been personal insulted when there is a moldy apple at the grocery store. Just leave it and keep shopping.
I have thought about this for far longer than warranted I think it comes down to a combination of several factors.
The first is that substitutions among video games are indirect at best. Paradox for example makes strategy games but a fair portion of their fans call them “Paradox games” because of the particular connotations cultivated by their DLC campaigns, multi-year support and mechanical granularity. Also within the strategy genre are the Total War series of games produced by Creative Assembly, fans of that series are throwing fits on YouTube because the handling of the series has been dreadful in their eyes. No competitors have emerged yet to make an alternative Total War experience and several fans were excited about the final entry in a trilogy within the series so the sunk cost fallacy keeps them around.
The second is that any video game player born before about 2003 has witnessed the maturation of the video game industry as we know it. As the rate at which profit is earned in the industry falls, practices and standards change to recoup perceived losses. In video games this manifests in unusually tangible ways for the consumer. Instead of entering cheat codes left in for debugging purposes, you buy power ups with real money. Instead of unlocking alternate outfits and characters by completing challenges or secrets you buy them with real money. Instead of a game having to wait until it is finished to be sold, publishers leverage internet connectivity to ship first and patch later. Many of these practices are striking to the consumer because they are monetizing aspects of their hobby that they once enjoyed at no extra cost, and these practices are appearing in a context of escapism.
You’re not wrong. On the other hand, i would prefer mediocre game from Paradox over every single one of those that you listed solely on base of genre.
What is the OP about on? Cities Skylines 2? It have better reviews now that the first wave of negbomb passes. Also i wouldn’t even take those under consideration, paradox forum crowd have long and established tradition of negbombing on steam for petty reasons.
My brother in christ, the fucking menu is lagging with 12 GB VRAM.
Maybe it was during the initial “generating textures” phase when you first launch it, but it should definitely not be lagging at the menu.
I’m on a 2080 S + 9700k and the game runs pretty decently, small city and it averages maybe 45fps with most settings on high at 1440p, run over 70 fps if I turn down the settings a bit, but I like the graphics and I can live with lower FPS on a city builder game.
I startend playing ori and could not see what the point of it is, can you maybe tell me a little about it to get hyped like all of you are?
Ori unpacks itself slowly. At the beginning, I agree - A pretty basic platformer. Once you find yourself playing Galaga in it, it starts to prove how flavorful a platformer can be.
Gameplay aside, the music, world and story was so heart warming!
It’s a really solid Metroidvania, with beautiful design, music and story. It’s not the best Metroidvania (my vote would go to Hollow Knight) but the game is really good. The sequel is great too!
I don’t know how far in you went: the first half-hour or so is just slow storytelling. And just like all Metroidvanias, your set of powers at the beginning is very limited and isn’t so interesting. However, the game is well enough paced that as soon as you’re comfortable using your current power set, the game unlocks a new mechanic, and it never really stops until the end. It especially shines if you’re a completionist IMO, as being able to go back to each area to explore it to 100% with the whole power set feels really great.
I think the biggest issue here is that metroidvania as a genre is just far too tedious and not all that fun to play, unless you grew up playing Metroid or Castlevania. Hollow Knight has so many great things going for it, but after several hours of predictable power gaining and backtracking through the same areas to open new pathways just to do the same thing again I couldn’t take it anymore.
being able to go back to each area to explore it to 100% with the whole power set feels really great.
Nothing about this sounds fun to me. Perhaps when I was 8 years old, but not now.
I have both Ori games and spent even less time with them. They are prettier than Hollow Knight but even more dull unfortunately.
I would go as far as to say that this is for sure an opinion.
Of course it’s an opinion, just as the comment it was responding to was an opinion
Some even Paradox ones. One can waste many-many hours in CK:DV with Mappa Regnorum mod, for example. Though CK2 is more complex, it lacks the relative simplicity and clarity.
Genuinely this. If you’re looking for more off beat games, Ace attorney trilogy is frequently on sale and Ghost trick.
We’ve been warned, I expected performance to be rough but ~35fps on a 4090 is a new low for me.
Yeah, there’s “bad” and there’s “embarrassingly terrible”
And then there’s everything not triple A, which is 99% terrible but 1% gold.
I’ve played some action games in the teens and was fine with it. Maybe lower frame rate at low resolution (1080) isn’t as apparent as the high 4K, but I’ve never understood why people can’t play with frame rates still far faster than film (if it’s truly refreshing the frames completely and not ripping the picture of course). I suppose this argument goes the same direction as the vinyl/CD one, with both opinions dead sure they’re right.
If the game is handling variations of frame rates during play badly, that’s a different story. The goal is for the player to not realize there’s a change and stay focused on the game.
I started out playing Doom on a 386, in a tiny tiny viewport, and until recently my hardware was apways behind the curve. I remember playing Oblivion at 640 x 380. And enjoying foggy weather in San Andreas because the reduced draw distance made my fps a lot better.
Over the years I’ve trained my brain to do amazing real time upsacaling, anti-aliasing, hell, even frame generation. nVidia has nothing on the neural network in my head.
But not everyone has this experience and smooth FPS is always better, even if I can handle teerible performance if the game is any good.
simple explanation: people get used to their monitors’ frame rate.
if all you’ve been using is a 60Hz display, you won’t notice a difference down to 30-40 fps as much as you would when you’ve been using a 144Hz display.
our brains notice differences much more easily than absolutes, so a larger difference in refresh rate produces a more negative experience.
think about it like this:
The refresh rate influences your cursor movements.
so if a game runs slower than you’re used to, you’ll miss more of your clicks, and you’ll need to compensate by slowing down your movements until you get used to the new refresh rate.
this effect becomes very obvious at very low fps (>20fps). it’s when people start doing super slow movements.
same thing happens when you go from 144Hz down to, say, 40Hz.
that’s an immediately noticeable difference!
Some of the settings are messed up, I think. It definitely can run faster than that by toning down some settings on that hardware. They really should have changed the defaults or straight up removed some visual settings, given what they do to the game. In my experience, the volumetric clouds, reflections and GI presets are all messed up and cost a disproportionate amount of performance when maxed out.
Well, maybe high settings was created for a 6090 or even 7090?
If it makes you feel any better getting older means you learn to see these things coming from a mile away. The best games are (generally) the ones you learn about from word of mouth
And when you’re older you have no time to game. So, you’re a few years behind. By the time they get to you, they’re either hashed out and good or have fallen out of popularity.
Or you could be like me and still play games from the 90s.
Like those reviews mean anything …
They are filled with unfunny meme reviews, review bombs because they feature a gay person, or reviews from people who don’t understand how computers are supposed to work.
I’ll form my own opinion, thank you very much.
I’m having a great time on medium graphics
Go ahead and spend $50 to form your own opinion. Be sure to leave a review!
Tbh, the game’s great. I’ve literally see someone compare playing a city managment game at 30fps to a slideshow.
Does it run well? No. Is it a disaster? Also no. Is every single other aspect of the simulation better than cs1? Absolutely yes. Most of the reviews are by far exaggerated
I mean, there are some nits I can pick.
Places don’t feel as alive as they did in the original. The original was still deeply flawed, mind - but this goes even further than that.
A great example - when there was a firetruck putting out a fire in the original, you could see little dudes squirting water. CS2 doesn’t even have guys come out; the fire just magically goes away. Multiply this by… everything.
There’s no bikes (at least as far as I can tell), and the pedestrian path tooling seems to be a huge step back (the only dedicated pedestrian path I can find is technically considered a 2-lane road, but it doesn’t allow cars).
The music has these cute little segments inbetween. But there’s only like… 5 of them. Once you hear all 5, you’ve heard everything and they start to grate. The other 2 “radio stations” don’t have the NPR segments, but they do have “ads”… and by “ads” they mean exactly 1 ad that you hear every time for “Spaz Electronics”. You can turn the ads off but I’d expect more than just a single one.
Everything overreacts to anything you build. If you upgrade a road, it technically disconnects power + water + sewage for a hot second. Then you get a bunch of spam about “I don’t have any power!” blah blah even though the game was paused and they absolutely had power.
It’s really hard to see what trips Cims are taking. The original let you see the paths Cims took throughout your city, which let you make informed decisions around public transport. Now you can just see… how much traffic there is? Which doesn’t tell you anything about where Cims are going, just where you have bottlenecks. It very much encourages a “just 1 more lane, bro” kind of thinking.
Not having a wide variety of public transport options is a bummer. It feels like they left some stuff out for a future DLC (e.g. monorails).
There’s no light shining from the camera at nighttime, so it can get actually literally pitch black at night. Like “turn off the day/night cycle because this is unplayable” levels of dark. A subtle light coming from the camera when not in photo mode would’ve done wonders.
The zoning information is really hard to read. I can’t tell what areas I have zoned with something else because it colors areas from other zones as white and unzoned areas as clear… on a mostly white background. It’s really really hard to tell at-a-glance what needs to still be zoned in some cases.
The more I play it, the more it feels like CS1 is the sequel and CS2 is the original. There’s just so much that’s not done as well or that’s simply not there. The stuff they added is cool, sure… but like, I wish it was additive on top of what we had before, and not “back at square one”. It just makes me want to play the original.
Can you imagine how much slower the game would have been with bicycles, individual paths and subtle light coming from the camera at night? These were probably performance decisions, not gameplay (though it’s possible it was rushed and they cut out non essentials for release).
I mean, it does have infinite less content, because it still lacks of the flood of DLCs, so it can’t be better in that not so unimportant regard.
It’s just not finished yet, and I have no problem waiting for a year or two, you don’t have to defend them.
To me it’s win win. I can wait for it to go on sale and by then it will actually run on my PC. If it was finished on day one I’d be really tempted to buy it full price.
True, these companies do us patient gamers a solid one.
It’s been easy to transition to one when the releases are majorly hot garbage.
I have no issue playing. It runs smooth. I did encounter several bugs though. But that’s usual for games released nowadays. I hope those get patched soon. Although I’m happy it works for me, I’m sad to see so many people have much worse experiences. Game developers aren’t what they used to be. Except Larian Studios, they are great.
The original ran like shit too and its UI was garbage compared to any SimCity. Never understood the love for that game. SC3KU was the peak of city sim games.
Nothing after SC2000 was any good.
I always thought I liked city management games because of SC2000… Apparently I just like SC2000
I’m more of a SC4 dude, that soundtrack was :chef’s kiss:
Everyone knows the best SimCity was for the Commodore 64.
When Interplay decided that Sim City needed goofy, over-the-top FMVs on a CD-ROM…I think that was peak Sim City. As a kid, I was disappointed 2k and 3k didn’t have professional, career-oriented adults yelling at you for your incompetence in FMV.
I hadn’t realised till just now, but I do miss SC’s bullying and harassment. I don’t unleash disasters near as much nowdays, and I wonder if that’s part of why. I don’t have department heads and politicians openly disappointed in me all the time.
The small masochist in me is trying to convince me to ask for that feature back.
Do you have any idea how excited I was for the GTA trilogy remake? I’ve been waiting for so long. Only to be slapped in the face.
The worst part is that I know rockstar will never attempt to remake them again. I’ll never get that San Andreas remaster.
The issue is that Rockstar never remade GTA.
They outsourced that work to Grove Street Games who had already done the mobile ports and said have at it. Grove Street Games took their mobile ports (which were already compromised) and adapted them back to console & PC with a new engine. I assume everything was done on the cheap and to a deadline and what they produced is what they produced. For Rockstar it wasn’t a labour of love, it was money for old rope and if they had given a damn they wouldn’t have outsourced it or at least had stricter quality controls & acceptance on what someone made for them.
Rockstar made a slightly better job with their RDR port in that they didn’t completely fuck it up but it was still outsourced and a minimal effort.
It may hurt right now, but trust me, there are
Is that Dungeons of Dredmore? That was a fun game.
I positively loved that game! I wish they would have made another! Here are my two proudest achievements in DoD!
Tell me you loved Cities Skylines without telling me you loved Cities Skylines!
Yeah it’s a real shame, I’ve been following this as well.
what went wrong with cities skylines?
Bad release for #2. Hopefully it gets sorted out, but I don’t think anyone expected a launch this bad.
The new one runs like hot unoptimized garbage I think
It’s really not that bad. I run it with the settings maxed at 1440p. I’m guessing my framerate hovers around 30, both above and below.
R9 3900x & 3070ti - my machine is above average but nothing crazy.
30 fps on 3070ti is shambolic.
TBH it’s not really the end of the world. I remember the first one running like hot garbage on my PC. Granted maybe it was my shitty CPU being FX-8320 at that time.
On my machine I got around 40-70 with the default settings. For a city management game having a stable (meaning not crashing) game would be its first priority. Although I definitely see this as an early access release regardless of what CO is saying. So I played this on my Game Pass sub. My regional pricing for Game Pass is really good, as converted to the dollar is only tree fiddy. Although the minimum wage in my country is only 1/4 of the US so it all adds up to the same I guess.
Mate, if you’re paying 50$ and have a really good PC, the base level competency should atleast be that the game runs. Let alone the quality or content.
Stop excusing the inexcusable.
I’m paying 3.5 USD to play this game. So my standards might be lower than those who had paid the full price for this game.
Wow, what an obnoxiously worded comment.
Followed by a completely useless comment meant to stir up negativity. Well done.
Gonna need to be more specific…
Looks like they are talking about Cities: Skylines 2
Yo ho, yo ho a pirate’s life for me
I don’t think that will fix the performance issues either.
I think I’ll just play the first one or Tropico.
This is why we still need demos
You basically get them through Steam - 2 hours is generally enough to figure out if a game is a total ripoff or not
Piracy is the demo version for me. I pirated cs1 until I decided that they deserve my money.
