- cross-posted to:
- android@lemdro.id
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I bought my Fairphone 3 at the start of 2020. I love it. I love the fact I can dissamble it with the provided screwdriver in two minutes.
I love that I can buy replacement parts for it if anything breaks without having to get some kind of expensive repair from Apple or Samsung. Ive replaced the charging port on this phone and I’ll be replacing the battery soon too. Giving people the ability to fix and maintain their own devices is fantastic.
I am hoping to get a decade out of this device and I’m nearing 4 years with no complaints so far. I’m a little bit dissapointed they got rid of the headphone jack on the Fairphone 4. While you can get adapters etc, it shouldn’t be necessary imo. That alone is my biggest gripe with that device. Aside from that though, they make great devices and I highly reccomend them
The removal of the headphone jack is what made me call complete bullshit on their whole “repairability and sustainability” schtick. At the same time of the removal, they began selling their own wireless earbuds. So now you can’t use wired headphones with their phones, and instead have to buy a pair of wireless ones (which they conveniently sell to you) which will eventually have their internal batteries die and need to go to a landfill because none of it is repairable. I initially thought they were a pretty good company with decent values, but ever since they did that I no longer care about them.
Yeah that was a disappointing moment. Though I think you can still use wired headphones with an adapter that connects them to USB-C.
I disagree with this choice, but I don’t think they are bullshiting, I think they are walking a difficult line of trying to be sustainable, up to date with the technology (adding 5G this early is also very questionable IMO), attractive for consumers and not completely unaffordable, which leads to difficult compromises.
None of those points demand the removal of the headphone jack as a compromise.
Here are some: making the design easier, making reaching IP rating easier. Again, I’m not saying it would not be possible to make those with a jack, but maybe considering the aforementioned compromise, it was easier to ditch it.
Exactly. It’s a bullshit excuse to sell headphones. So fuck that.
Love the phone otherwise but won’t buy without a jack.
Well, when I ordered my FP4 last year the wireless earbuds were included for free. Still bought an adapter for aux that i keep in my car. I think this is fairly acceptable. Now my only problem is that they didn’t offer an adapter with both aux and USB for charging.
It’s still more waste. An adapter is a bigger use of materials, extra cost, and another point of failure. Hardly a sound decision for a self-proclaimed “sustainable” manufacturer.
Wireless is future
Removed by mod
Fairphone proves the usual excuses for ending Android support aren’t valid.
That alone is worth a lot. Their endeavour for longevity is also great. I hope they get the attention they need.
By supporting the very manufacture to blame for short support times? Qualcomm is the root of the problem.
They don’t provide the bloody drivers for newer Android versions.
Manufacturers can only provide security updates after 2 major updates.
Are other Chipmakers better? It’s not like they could just have no chip at all…
Ok, than they are alright and green, very fair much phone
I guess having only one phone every year makes it immensely easier to support than having multiple models at every price range every year. Apple does it, why couldn’t Android phone manufacturers do it?
Because they want to corner every price target.
You think the masses care about how long the devices are supported? This is a topic from back in the early days of Android.
Also we need to consider how phone companies differ from Google and Apple. Those two also generate money off the users purchasing apps and etc, and they have the ability to push users to their services easier. Where as strictly phone manufacturers make money at the sale of the handset, so – as you put it – they’re incentivized to have as much penetration as possible by selling as many models they can.
Tho, I do think people are starting to care about support length as the phone market matures and people wait longer to buy their new phones. Which is why, I think, Android manufacturers are lengthening support (and not out of the goodness of their hearts)
Please educate me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t Apple’s model of continuing to sell older flagships, or even reusing old chassis and putting flagship chips inside them cost less money in the long run? I imagine the price for manufacturing the same phone 3 or 4 years later would cut down significantly, no? And by doing that, you also won’t need to spend R&D money on extra models.
Oh indeed! That helps as well. I imagine other manufacturers do this too, but I only follow Apple closely since I was a huge fanboy half a decade ago. So I can’t speak with certainty for them
Apple does it by introducing new models while lowering the price of older ones. That effectively covers the lower budget price tier while not having to make a whole new model for it.
It’s at least getting better. Samsung, who had a much wider range of phones, moved to 4 years of security updates. Pixels moved to 5 years. Too many other brands to list their support length too. Apple still beats them though.
Google has two a year, right? One high-end, one mid-range. Supporting both is probably not much more effort than a single model.
I had the Fairphone 2 and I loved it. It was like Lemmy, you never really knew if it would work the next morning but the community was great.
After replacing the battery once, without any tools whatsoever, and upgrading the camera, with a small screwdriver, it lasted for more than five years.
Since then, I’ve had a company phone but when it breaks, I will check out Fairphone first. Of course there is no such thing as a sustainable, or “fair” phone, but at least in 2016, this was often discussed in their trancparacy reports? The official forum was also very aware. Some raw materials where sourced to the exact mine, others thei openly said they couldn’t control at the time.
Additionally, they offered the phone with root acces so trying out alternative os was never any problem. It’s the closest Ive ever been to a Google free life.
Updates on a phone is a important topic. When i choose a smartphone i look for software support period. But i think software updates sometimes make graphical improvements and that causes performance decrease. Or the company wants to slow that thing down. Nowadays you can’t see the difference.
I’m not really conviced by fairphone. They claim they have an ethical and ecological supply chain / manufacturing but there is very little on their website to support that claim. The phone is made in China like any other smartphone. The “Fairtrade Gold” label doesn’t mean Gold-rank fairtrade materials, it means that only the actual gold that’s inside the phone has the fairtrade label. The amount of gold in a phone is ridiculously small and doesn’t represent the major part of the phone’s emissions footprint. They have another label which name I can’t remember but I looked it up and the terms are very vague. After all the electronic components are still electronic components : copper wires made from copper, qualcomm CPU made in the same qualcomm factory, etc. I don’t think a label changes that.
All in all I don’t think that buying a brand new, 580 € smartphone with subpar performance is a good move if you care about the environment. Buying a used phone sounds like a much better option to me : cheaper, better performance, probably not as serviceable BUT it’s already living a second life anyways.
I tried to be enthusiatic but FP looks way too much like a cash grab aimed at people that care about the environment
You’re right that Fairphone’s supply chain is not fully sustainable. In fact, I remember reading an interview with the founder where he admitted that poor sustainability and labour practices are so entrenched in the industry that it was impossible to actually make a “fair” Fairphone. (Incidentally, this is why the company uses the word “fair*[er]*” to describe the phones.)
Yeah, I would definitely agree that a used phone is a much more environmentally-friendly choice than a brand-new one. The amount of customers who are going to ditch their 1 or 2 year old phone for this “sustainable” phone will unfortunately not be zero…
My problem with FP isn’t only that their phone lacks in features and sustainability. It’s that their whole PR and marketing is misleading. They hold back a lot of essential information to trick the customer into thinking that the phone is good for the environment. I would be more enclined to support them if they were honest about it ; right now it looks like corporate BS intended to make a maximal profit, like any other phone company
Phones are never good for environment, it’s a resource sink. But it’s better than most others and it’s enough :-)
A lot of phones are disposed of despite being perfectly functional (at least some are saved by the second hand market) just because the manufacturer released a new version with a slightly better camera sensor and more RAM. It has gotten a bit ridiculous. Fairphones are not perfect, but being able to keep them more than 2-3 years without being left with an unmaintained glued brick is what makes at least a small difference.
i’d be fine with it if they presented it like this. But they don’t, they aren’t honest about the actual (very moderate) sustainability they offer
Greenwashing is the term for something like this.
Greenwashing refers to ecological sustainability claims. Regarding the manufacturing process, Fairphone primarily claims to be more socially sustainable, not environmentally. Their ecological claims are solely based off of their phones extended software support and easier repairability, which is undeniably given.
They are a European company. If they lied about any of this, an NGO would have already bisected them since then.
They’re not literally lying, but presenting the information in a biased way
Reading through the comments, almost everyone missed the elephant in the room. The big problem with long term support is not on the phone or chip manufacturers.
…::: It’s GOOGLE! :::… Just compare the history of Android with Windows. Windows 10 is still supported for another 2 years, yet it was released in mid 2015. Every Windows 10 capable device is still receiving updates till then.
Contrast that with Android. Android 6.0 came out in October 2015. Yet very few devices from that era are supportable today. Why? A large part of that is based on Google’s never ending -> breaking changes <- and random new requirements that make older devices incompatible.
This got me personally when I bought a Sony Z3 with the intention of having a “future proof” phone. It was openly advertised as being a dev device for Android 7, so much so that a preview release was downloadable for it.
Only for Google to drop a new requirement for the GPU to have minimum OpenGL ES 3.1, while the GPU only had the instructions for 3.0. WTF?! I might add, the specification for 3.1 was only released to the public 2 years prior.
I seriously hope that some alternative to Android will establish itself again. We had Windows phone, which Microsoft utterly butchered. IOS is not an alternative as that’s tied to one manufacturer.
I’m still in mourning over the Ubuntu phone OS :(
Yup. While I have a sceptical opinion of Ubuntu, it did find it sad that it didn’t gain any traction. A possible contender is still Tizen OS. It’s essentially an entire OS build around Chromium, while not owned by Google. Samsung use that a lot in their smart TVs.
Sure, it’s not as performant as running native Android.
But boy have we seen some massive improvements in browser tech and performance increases on mobile devices. Developing web-applications is certainly a ton easier than native Android and IOS. Wrapper toolchains like React Native aren’t helping much.
Unless you really need calls to some device APIs, there isn’t too much left that a Browser can’t do compared to what the native OS permits. I’ve been developing web-apps for robots and also developed equivalent native apps in Android. In the browser you now have access to some impressive 3d capabilities, which are extending further (BabylonJS). You’ve got the ability to interact with files via tool-chains that are not too dissimilar to what you see in native Android (Google has been clamping down file-system access to app devs quite heavily in recent releases). You can also gain decent API access to the devices battery and GPS status. Add some nifty UI libraries and you can provide a more pleasant experience, faster than with an actual native app. Even video streaming works remarkably well since you can interact with multiple cameras, microphones and even the screen (Google Meet does that).
It’s now that we’re seeing PWAs (progressive web app) to gain traction. I’m using Voyager for Lemmy, which works lovely in Windows and my phone.
In the browser you only miss on some native capabilities on some hardware component and a few legacy systems. Mainly serial communication and native UDP support. Although the last one will see some more improvements with HTTP3, which is gaining traction.
The one thing I wish google never did was introduce SafetyNet without enabling us a way to essentially say “I modified my own phone, so let me use my damn banking and tap-to-pay apps without issue” and reenable it.
In fact they’ve actively made safetynet more invasive by adding CTS profile matching alsongside basic attestation, with a system for telling what phones are compatible with the new profile matching so you can’t force disable it.
If they never added that I could’ve bypassed basic attestation and gotten google wallet back. But no. The most I can get back is banking and Pokemon GO. But there’s still a risk one of them will decide to use CTS and therefore making it impossible to use that app on my current phone, all in the name of “security”
It’s my phone, stop trying to smother my attempts to do what I want with it!
i use e/os, that replaces like everything google has like the google micro services with something else. Some apps, newer ones with more trackers, tend to break but it supports some phones from 2013. I suggest taking a look when you have phones that are not supported anymore
It seems to support Sony Xperia Z3
https://doc.e.foundation/devices
I wanted to get a Fairphone 4 until I saw I saw it didn’t have a headphone jack. Made me think all their “sustainable” mottos are just marketing.
Purism with their Librem phones took people’s money and didn’t send them the product so I didn’t want to chance it or support a company that does that.
So in the end I got a Pixel 7 instead and put Graphene OS on it. Not particularly happy but didn’t seem like there was a better choice.
Recently found out from a Louis Rossman video that the lead dev of Graphene has some mental health issues that don’t make him a very trustworthy individual. Supposedly he stepped down but he’s probably still contributing code.
Tl;dr: phones = bad
His code contributions have always been high quality, and they’re audited by his peers. Its very unlikely malicious code would come from him, and even more unlikely it would make it through on to your phone.
While he’s certainly unhinged, it’s clear that he cares deeply for the project. I can’t see him doing anything intentionally malicious.
I really wish him the best, and I’m glad he stepped down. Much better for optics with him out of the way.
This might age horribly, but I never really understood the worry that a high-profile open source developer might ‘smuggle’ some dodgy code into a repo. Sure, it’s possible. Especially in large projects, but the risk/reward ratio is simply ridiculously bad and there are so many other/simpler ways out there a malicious actor could use to make a profit.
The risk is definitely not higher than the risk of some closed sorce dev smuggling something dodgy into a high profile project like e.g. Windows.
That said, I would trust an unknown git repo about as much as I would trust some exe I found on a random website.
Yup, I’m in the market for a new phone soon, and here’s my assessment of my options, in rough order of preference:
- PinePhone Pro - probably not ready since I’m not confident in calls waking it from sleep; not sure if it’ll support the apps I need (mostly need a specific 2FA app for work)
- Fairphone - expensive and no headphone jack
- Pixel + alternate ROM - not sure I trust the devs
- iPhone - don’t like the ecosystem much, and I don’t really trust Apple
- regular Android - software support ends too soon
- feature phones - don’t have the apps I need
I’m probably going to get an older Pixel and a PinePhone Pro, and I’ll hack on the PinePhone until it does what I need. I don’t think I can add reliable suspend/resume, but I can probably build a couple small apps I need (i.e. a lemmy client, I’m already working on one), get a few Android apps working, and tune the OS a bit. Worst case scenario, it’s a fun hobby project.
Oneplus6 + postmarketos
It works really, really well.
https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/OnePlus_6_(oneplus-enchilada)
Any idea of what phone is best for postmarketos? I intend to use it as a daily driver and potentially submit patches for things like MMS (my family still uses it occasionally).
I guess, if money were no object, which phone offers the best postmarketos experience?
https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices
Probably the shift6, oneplus6 (or 6t), or librem 5.
pinephone pro - is defintely getting better as the software improves. The battery life is definitely something that holds it back i bought a keyboard battery case and it improved it however the edges of the case that connects to the phone have cracked over time and ive super glued it twice (near headphone port & opposite side near type c port.) When they crack it can cause a misalignment on the pins and not charge/keyboard doesnt function so i have to press back into the case(hence the glue to fix that). It will eventually get better for me to completely jump over.
Pixel phones degoogled - works great especially calyx or graphene os. I have always bought used but if i want change to happen i need to stop funding google indirectly through the used market with buying their phones. I am speaking for myself here.
Fairphone , Teracube, Murena - i eventually want to just buy from these moving forward. They hit 80% + of the checkboxes i need and improvements come quicker when this companys market improves especially when their direction aligns with what i want in a phone.
Tl;dr - i am letting my money do the talking on where i want phone improvement to occur.
I think my problem is that I don’t know where I want to see improvement. I see two options:
- Linux phone - it’ll become a hobby and I’ll constantly need to tinker
- Graphene, Fairphone, etc - better than what I have, but I’ll probably never get to my ideal
If the PinePhone had better software, I’d totally just go with that, but it’ll be rough the first couple of years.
Regarding best phone for post market os
https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices
Pinephone (not pro) seems to have the most support its on the main line.
Other than that under “community” & “phone” you would decide which phone in that list meets what you need and get peoples opinion on those specific phone with usage.
- your selection on which direction to take via pinephone or android based on your needs and tollerances.
If you dont mind tinkering go pinephone however if you need it to work for various uses based on what you/friends/family use and compromises need to be done then go android.
Contribution can be bug reports, donations, assistance to other users ect. Anything is possible if you want.
I do where i can and its my choice; same with you, your choices are your own.
I think I’ll want the PinePhone Pro because repairability is important and it’ll probably be hard to find parts for outdated mass market phones. The original PinePhone is just too slow for me (from videos, not hands-on usage), and the PinePhone Pro probably wouldn’t be a huge downgrade from my current phone in terms of performance.
I didn’t see a big selection of used OnePlus 6s (OnePlus 6T seems available though), and the ones that are available are in poor shape (shattered back, burned in screen, some kind of damage, etc), so it’s not going to be a long term option most likely. The PinePhone should have decent parts support for a few years at least.
Sounds good,
I have a pinephone pro, while you can use use it touch. I recommend either the keyboard case(since it has a battery) or having a portable bluetooth keyboard of some sort. If configurartion is needed and there are issues with the onscreen keyboard(happens when i use certain apps like bitwarden) the keyboard helps ease that issue.
I still use stock manjaro plasma but if i jump i might go to sway/plasma arch/sway postmarket still checking put options though. I know i need waydroid to work so ill see what the doc support is on both.
Fairphone allows you to remove the battery, which, amongst other things, allows you to hard-reset the phone by just pulling the battery, which I did 2 times after owning the FP4 for 18 months. It also receives longer software support than most other phones. Negatives include a rattly top speaker above 50% volume, which was confirmed to be a design defect, the high price tag and, for me at least other small annoyances, such as the microphone volume being pretty low when on a call (not unusable, but you got to speak louder) and sometimes GPS issues, which either require patience or a restart.
An incredibly important detail of being able to remove the battery is that it enables both carrying extras for longer travel, and allows replacing and upgrading as it ages.
I have a samsung galaxy s5 and thanks to that i could straight up double the ontime with an aftermarket battery, which is comically large and came with a new backside lmao.
Owner of PinePhone(Pro), calls and alarm from sleep works.
Which distro and enviornment do you use and how is your battery experience?
I use ArchLinux with Plasma Mobile. Battery life is bad, but I bought the Pine keyboard which makes the battery life normal.
How long have you had it? Have any cracks devoloped as time has passed with the keyboard case?
PP about two years, PPP about six months. Yes, there is a small crack with the keyboard case with PPP.
I heard the original PinePhone works fine, but the Pro is still WIP. I want the extra performance from the Pro, otherwise I’d probably already have a PinePhone.
I guess I’ll find out when I get one though.
Not anymore, I have both and call and alarms from sleep works :)
Awesome, I’ll have to pick it up then. :)
The pixel also doesn’t have a headphone jack, so the fairphone is still better in that it has an ethical supply chain, and much more user repairable
When I heard the Fairphone 4 didn’t have any waterproofing I decided to skip this version. My coworker is replacing their Samsung S10 just because the USB port is getting loose but they’re an avid boater. For some, water resistance really matters.
I would assume it’s very hard to build a phone that’s easily openable and at the same time waterproof :/
S5 was both.
Plus you could just use screws and a gasket.
It is a valid reason from the OEMs because they have to rely on their chip manufacturers for security updates. It’s literally out of their control to do updates that long except when it comes to the OS.
Now let’s see if they actually follow through. I’m skeptical.
The Fairphone 2 actually had 7 years of security updates before the support was withdrawn, so it’s pretty likely the Fairphone 3 will last at least 7 years, maybe even longer.
Security updates are easier than full OS upgrades.
Its a fairphone, they should be fair enough.
Doesn’t Qualcomm stop providing drivers after 4 years?
Yeah, but Fairphone decided to make their own drivers after Qualcomm stopped with supporting the chips.
Have they actually done this, or did they just say that they will? It won’t be easy…
They actually made a custom operating system, because Qualcomm dropped support for the SoC. Source: https://www.fairphone.com/en/2021/03/25/android9-fairphone2/
They did it twice; once for the upgrade to Android 9 (took 18 months) and once for the upgrade to android 10 (took 10 months)
Considering all the comments I’ve seen about their phone basically falling apart it kind of sounds like you should just get an iPhone SE and factor in a battery replacement after 3 years. Day one updates for 5 years and I am severely doubtful you’ll have as many hardware problems if you don’t damage it. Better camera, too.
Yes, but 2019 was like 2 years ago so we’ll be fine!
… Right?
This is really good to hear. The worst thing about mid range android phones is the lack of future software support. Even flagship androids aren’t anything to write home about. As much as people like shitting on apple, they support their devices for quite a while compared to other manufacturers.
Most Android manufacturers are using minimal development teams to get closed source blobs from the CPU+radios OEMs to talk to the OS. Like the article says, Qualcomm stop supporting older generations of their SoCs pretty quickly, and those manufacturers don’t invest the resources in custom development, which is the LineageOS approach that Fairphone are taking. There’s nothing to promise these updates will be stable and secure though.
Apple has a huge advantage in developing their own processors from start to finish. They’re not reliant on anyone else’s code, and if they do need to buy in certain components (like Intel modems that they’ve used before), they’ve got the size and budget to get pretty much anyone to agree to their terms. It’s why Google started the Tensor project, which is rumored to be finally going full Google (ending reliance on Samsung) from 2025/Pixel 9.
I still think that open standards would better enable long-term support than more effective vertical integration.
We need an open source smartphone.
pinephone
Would be great if it would actually be usable.
From what I’ve read from people owning it it’s unfit for any purpose at the moment and very few people actually use it as their main phone.
Pine64’s model of “we build the hardware, the community builds the software” doesn’t seem to be working very well unfortunately.
Its not even software issues (I mean the software is still very early, but improving), the pinephone hardware is ridiculously underpowered while simultaneously drawing too much power.
The Pro fixes the underpowered issue, but gives you a couple hours of screen-on time. At first I was hopeful software updates would fix the battery life, but the same operating system (postmarketos) gives me a full day of use on my other phone (oneplus6). That leads me to believe it’s largely a hardware issue.
I hope I’m wrong. \o/
Good explanation. Even if their long term support doesn’t work out it’s nice to see a trend towards long term support and reduction of e-waste.
So? Sell it and buy the new one
Believe it or not, some people aren’t big on over consumption and want things to last. Companies should do better and not produce crap that’s going to end up in landfill in a few years.
Have fun using obsolete tech
I believe someone else in this thread has mentioned this already, For most people the feature set on phones has been stagnant for many years. Most users have their use case met already and additional features are really just bloat (for the most part). Not all people are into tech, and a phone is simply a tool. And therefore don’t always want/need the latest and greatest.
Its not obsolete if they are providing the updates…
Bring it to Canada!
Is the company even 7 yrs old? Will they be here in another 7?
https://www.fairphone.com/en/about/about-us/?ref=footer
10 years old and greater than ever.
Also the Fairphone 3 is already 4 years old. So they only need to “be here” another 3 years.
How do you share post ? I wanted to tell my friends about this, there is no share button in jerboa
Click that three-dots button on the post, next to the comment button
That is amazing! I had a Fairphone 1 and used it until the ‘on’ button broke which was about the only thing not available from the parts store. Now I have a Fairphone 3, have had it for a few years now. I might get the camera module upgrade as I still have an old one and it’s the only disappointing thing about the phone. I’ve been looking forward to fixing my phone because the modular design they made is amazing, but absolutely nothing has broken yet in my 3 years of use!
Here is a pic i done with the libre camera app on the FP3 with the newer camera module i did a few days ago without zoom at three mice
I think it is better to have a seperate camera but for the normal everyday use it is okay
Ngl but that looks terrible.
the thing is that the cam has no system that proccess the raw fotage to something better. A few years ago samsing and apple had the same camera hardware but the quality of the samsung pics where better because they had an better ai or something
