A friendly reminder that isps do NOT care about you or your digital rights. Always best to buy directly from the OEM rather than from the telecommunications (unless you can’t afford it). Do proper research before buying a phone!
ISP locking doesn’t make any sense, why should they care if I use stock Android or GraphineOS?
Because the core reason is about control. They don’t want users to have the option or freedom to install an OS of their choice because it could hurt their “precious” revenue
A lot of carrier phones come with carrier preinstalled apps. And it allows for sim locking, keeping you trapped with them or other carriers on the same network. Or at least that’s how it has been, back in the day, when sim-locking still was legal in the EU. Now, phones are the same, whether they come from your carrier or retail.
Their stated reason is to mitigate theft by preventing removal of software that binds the device to the network and account, and to protect their network by blocking paths to custom roms including potentially custom radio firmware.
The real reason is likely a blend of protecting leased devices for resale value, keeping people from removing “sponsored” apps or ones that make them money, and distrust of users ability to not get tricked into abject stupid choices.
There’s also ad blocking via the hosts file
You don’t think they care that you’re attempting to circumvent their data collection on you?
They care because some users don’t actually own their phones and the carrier wants to keep strings attached, or they want to impose artificial software restrictions like preventing or limiting hotspot data.
Even when none of those conditions apply, you still often must deal with the locked boot loader. It’s BS.
This is why you never, ever, buy a phone from a carrier
The concept was always bizarre to me. It’s like getting a PC as part of your broadband contract. Speaking of, it would make more sense to get a phone as part of your broadband contract, my phone is 95% an internet device. That it happens to have a SIM card in it is a minor feature.
my phone is 95% an internet device. That it happens to have a SIM card in it is a minor feature.
I seriously wonder how long carriers will keep handing out phone numbers to data-only devices. It has to be a serious cost for them to provision out so many numbers plus it only contributes to the phone number exhaustion problem that happens in many areas codes. For example my work has about 1000 training iPads we’ve shipped out, all with phone numbers local to our main office, purely for the purposes of connecting to mobile data. Any messaging/phone apps the Apple might proload are removed via the MDM so they really never use the phone number for anything. And I imagine the company I work for is not a minority in doing something like that given how cheap iPads are to deploy at scale for anything that just needs to run a web browser and nothing else
That is carrier specific. My carrier will happily sell you a data-only SIM or eSIM, at a discount even.
I’m curious, do they have phone numbers tied to them?
Edit: a quick internet search confirms my suspicion, they do have a number assigned but are unable to make/receive calls or texts
If they have, it’s well hidden. Nowhere on the packaging or Sim tooling does any number appear (I have one for my iPad).
My data SIM has a phone number but Android can’t see it, I have to use USSD code to get my number
Ok. Now how do I unlock my samsung note 20 ultra that isn’t carrier locked?
Also never ever by a Samsung phone. Seriously, you have to check in advance what you can and cannot do with your phone. Stop caring about megapixels, 15 cameras all around the edge of the phone and it being foldable 8 times or more. Then you can also buy phones under $1000. You should try it.
I used to riot every phone I had. I’d install the Cyanogen dailies and loved customizing my phone.
Now I have an $1800 foldable Samsung phone (Fold 3) I bought 3 years ago, and I won’t go back. Yeah, it was super expensive, but why should I spend thousands on my desktop computer I use once or twice a week at most, but then go cheap on the device I keep on hand all day every day?
The biggest reasons to root for years were unlocking things like wifi tethering that are now built into the devices. I haven’t felt the need to root a phone since like 2012. The things I miss about older phones (headphone jack, IR blaster, SD card slot, interchange batteries, etc) are all hardware that can’t be fixed with root, and I wouldn’t trade all those features for the user experience of my Fold.
I can use my outside screen for quick tasks, my inner screen for more intense use, and I can wirelessly connect it into my laptop or desktop and get a full desktop-style interface through Samsung Dex (the least-advertised killer feature of Samsung phones, BTW).
It has enough horsepower to run any app I need. The battery life is mediocre if I use the inside screen a bunch, but that’s to be expected with this size screen.
I’m happy with my Samsung because they make excellent phones. Do I need all these bells and whistles? No. But I like having them and am in a place where I can buy a nice phone every few years.
And, for the first time I’m entirely, 100% satisfied with my phone 3 years into ownership and am not even considering upgrading any time soon. If I make this phone last 5-6 years it’ll average out to being pretty affordable compared to my old phones I’d get for cheap and replace every 2 years.
A phone is just not as good as a computer for anything except taking pictures, sending messages, and being portable. So if I’m at home where my computers are I only use a computer for anything online, except messaging. Having to do everything on a phone sounds horrible to me.
I have a computer (several, in fact) still. I’m just saying that people on Lemmy seem to have no issues with people spending over 2k building themselves a premium desktop PC they use a few times a week, but balk at someone spending over $500 on the device they carry with them all the time.
And unless you’re gaming or using specific PC applications, a phone with an external desktop interface (like a Samsung) hooked up to a monitor with a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard does 99.9% of what you need.
I can browse the web, write emails, use Office, and more just as well with my phone and a monitor as with my laptop o lr desktop computers.
I can’t use photoshop, blender, ArcGIS, etc so I still need computers, but for everything else the phone is great.
everyone i know who has a $2000 pc uses it daily. myself included.
Good for you. A lot of people build gaming PCs they only get to use occasionally because their lives are busy, and people have no problems with that.
Why should an expensive phone that’s used multiple hours a day be subject to extra scrutiny?
My wife loves her fold. It went from her not remembering to take her phone places (meaning I couldn’t get ahold of her in emergencies) to her always having it on her. The tablet mode just makes her want to use it
I got mine used in 2021 and paid $375 for it, buddy. You should try being less full of yourself.
Biggest issue I’ve had with my s21 is those dumbass childrens games being installed with every update
I used ADB to debloat my galaxy a34 upon receiving the phone, a major OneUI update has not brought anything I disabled, only new apps like the video editor. Hint: Disable / remove Appcloud via ADB if you have a Samsung phone
After a couple years of solid pixel use I just ordered an S24 Ultra. I don’t care about alot of things but I’ve had enough terrible signal, WiFi, Bluetooth and battery life.
My wife bought an S23 Ultra and I had my Pixel 7 pro, we’re both out and about, she’s got full bars 5G, and I’ve barely got any signal. She can leave her phone anywhere in the house and her bluetooth works up to like 60’ away in the right conditions, meanwhile I’m getting half that at most, and there’s a 3 second delay over Bluetooth so watching video is fun. She gets like 2 days of charge out of her phone normally, and with minor use I’m below 40% at the end of the day.
i’ve tried to leave sumsung multiple times; but their phones seems to be one of the few that work seamlessly with wireless android auto while others are buggy at best or just plain don’t work at all.
they say that all android phones past version 11 should work with android auto; but i have a brand new xiaomi’s, huawei’s, oppo’s, one plus’ and nokia’s with android 11 through 14 that don’t work well or at all.
Assuming that model can be unlocked you’d usually enable developer options in Android settings, toggle the bootloader unlock option there then reboot to the bootloader and finish unlocking (and wiping) the phone.
There’s some Samsung fuckery requiring button presses and/or a cable plugged into the phone at the right time during boot to get into different bootloader modes, the exact buttons and cable plugging sequence vary by model so Google and see if you can find an XDA thread or something.
Oh. I kind of asked ironically. Samsungs phones with Knox have been a huge pita to root and some never really made it at all. If you do get it, then you can’t use things like tap to pay or other security focused things.
There’s an lsposed module that spoofs Knox status now so rooting is more viable: https://xdaforums.com/t/app-xposed-magisk-knoxpatch-v0-6-8-restore-samsung-knox-features.4549179/
I don’t use Samsung tap to pay but I use a couple other features that are gated behind Knox status
Dang. Even that won’t let you use samsung wallet.
I’m hoping that they’ll have something figured out before nothing supports android 13.
Especially US carriers. Elsewhere, it varies.
Expensive, but worth it.
Usually not even that bad, I buy a 1-2y old unlocked phone on fleabay for <= ~$400 when it’s time for an upgrade and I’m set for 3y or so
and I’m set for 3y or so
Whoa, mine hold around 7 years.
I usually move on once it’s time for a battery replacement - I can get ~$100-150 back by selling the old phone and I get a newer camera out of the upgrade at the same time.
It works out to be something like $8-10/mo spent in the end (or ~$12/mo if I keep the old phone for some reason) so it’s not terribly expensive in the end.
Last couple of phones I’ve bought have been pixel a-series, new. Only reason I’ve felt I had to upgrade what the phone no longer getting security updates.
This and bootkits.
Buy a phone not tied to a carrier
Easy if you have money. If a new phone is a financial stretch, then in the short term it can be cheaper to get a nice phone for “free” with carrier lock in (which of course means it wasn’t free at all). It probably ends up being more expensive in the long term, but your paycheck can cover it.
You can actually get financing directly from Google who make the Pixel line of phones themselves, with bootloader unlocked as an option. So there is absolutely zero reason to buy from a carrier like Verizon unless they have a really fantastic promotion happening.
It is cheaper because you are the product. Maybe find something used.
brand new androids with the latest version go for about $150 ($90 with android 13 from last year); with them costing the same as 2 to 5 months of a carrier plan in the united states, it’s hard to imagine them being a financial stretch
That does not mean you will be able to unlock the boot loader. Unlocked carrier doesn’t mean unlockecable boot loader. A lot of manufactures don’t give you access to unlock it. US variants of Samsung phones are one example.
And on many phones, even if you can unlock the boot loader, there is a big chance that you will not have support by any major roms. There are only a handful of phone manufacturers that have easily unlockable boot loaders and are well supported by roms. Google, OnePlus, Motorola, and Huawei are the major ones that have good support because they make the boot loader unlocking easy.
I agree but you can always just not buy as Samsung as those devices are trash anyway.
You obviously didn’t understand this as you were talking about carrier locks and not boot loader locks.
Rather: only buy phones with explicit vendor guarantee that the bootloader can be unlocked / comes unlocked.
I’ve used all sorts of other ROM builds, lately I had been into LineageOS. Then I ran a stock Zenfone a while because I got sick of the never-ending treadmill of bootloader unlock>ROM>root>magisk etc etc
After 9 months with a stock phone I got a (used) Pixel and put GrapheneOS on it. From first boot it took all of 10 minutes to unlock the bootloader and install GrapheneOS. The longest part was the download. Bootloader re-locked. Easy peasy.
I’m a convert. I don’t prefer the Pixel hardware, tho it’s okay, but the ability to easily put my own OS on (and still use my banking apps) is pretty tits. I could revert to stock in 5 minutes.
People have told me not to try graphene because of the devs reputation, do you think it matters really?
The dev apparently has the attitude of a cocky 14 year old when any of their decisions are criticized. Whether that’s reason not to use the project is completely up to you.
Thank you, well as long as the OS is secure then that doesn’t matter to me in the end
I thought that was the Calyx developer?
I don’t know what Verizons deal is with it honestly, but T-Mobile hasn’t gotten in the way of it, they’ve even carrier unlocked phones for me that were still on a fresh payment plan for it.
Always best to buy directly from the OEM
Not everyone can afford that you know, and I find those budget/mid range phones insufferable. I’d buy one as a matter of last resort only.
I have a “budget” device from 2019. It runs Lineage OS and works fine.
Also you are the product
Or buy a leading edge phone from 2-4 years ago, which is what I do. I can afford to keep hot spares around at those prices.
What vendors do you buy through? I find that OEM tend to buy back their flagships , at least in Canada
I do that as well
I am more than aware that not everyone can afford buying high priced phones right out. I should have clarified that in my post
I think what you did was OK. Meme doesn’t necessarily have to apply to everyone. In this case, you can say it was restricted to those who should have full control of their device with every expectation and for every reason, and it would still be valid and makes sense. But that’s just my opinion.
When have you last used a mid range phone? It used to make a huge difference, but over the years, as phones matured, I feel it’s shrunken down more and more. I used to always use flagships, but these days, I don’t see what value they provide over 400-600€ phones in daily usage.
400-600€ phones
That’s like the price of the most expensive phone I ever owned, my old OnePlus 8T. I find budget phones insufferable these days, but midrange is generally fine provided you know what you’re looking for.
400 might have been a bit much. You can get a refurbished Pixel 7a for a bit over 300€ around here, and that should last you for quite some years.
I’m currently on a four year old phone that was 400€ back then, though I fear the USB Port might not be long for this world, which would force me to upgrade - it’s soldered and rather hard to replace.
part of me wants to understand why someone would pay $300 for a older out of date flagship model when they can spend $100 for a brand new one with the latest software.
I mean, I dunno how things are on your side of the pond, but here this would preclude a contract that is more expensive for otherwise equal condition, usually meaning a higher total cost of ownership.
I also tend to throw on a custom rom anyway - my four year old midranger is on the current version of Android. More and more devices also tend to get supported for longer, so that’s worth considering.
Also, out of date and brand new have gotten more and more meaningless for smartphones. I’ve got a processor fast enough to run everything I do seamlessly, a nice and sharp display, and a battery that lasts me a day. That’s about the same I’d have with a current flagship.
I mean, it’s your call, and I don’t really care what kind of phone you use, I just don’t think it’s quite as black and white as you paint it.
The best thing is actually to buy a used phone that was really good a couple years ago. I bought a used Oneplus 9 for $200 last year and it’s still perfectly usable and way more powerful than I’ve ever needed a phone to be. Also older phones are more likely to be supported by third party android distributions.
first world countries have carrier locking illegal, and carriers sell the same configuration phones as regular shops.
Carrier locking != Bootloader unlocking
carriers who must sell the same phone as an electronics retailer cannot stop you from unlocking the bootloader.
Welcome to capitalism…
For a long time VZW used separate tech. That required a different antenna/software. Hence special phones.
And still has some frequency bands not offered on international phones. But it is mostly about control.
You don’t even need to get a phone from ISP or some telecom, on Xiaomi you need to install sussy app on PC and wait for a week, for unlocking bootloader.
Unless you are Chinese user, which means you are double fucked.
To unlock your phone, you need to:
- Level 5 Xiaomi Forum Level (Gonna take half a year if you only check in daily, if you post and replies, then its tiny bit faster.)
- Make an appointment for the Unlocking Permission Test (random dates, xiaomi is also slowly/quietly limiting the number of test dates)
- Pass the test (timed, broad range/difficult technical questions, akin to a 300 level college exam that you’re not given any materials to study for)
- If you pass, you’re only allow to unlock 3 phones per year.
But hey, if you bought the phone outside of China (or simply not Chinese version), then you don’t have to do any of those except wait for 68 hours. Fuck the Chinese users eh (Chinese version also has a lot more bloatwares, the apps that you download from xiaomi app store also more invasive (more permission) than google play versions).
What the fuck that’s like a whole NPC quest line.
I think it’s 72h after linking your phone to your Xiaomi account, don’t need their pc app abd tools work fine.
It’s still one of the brands that are most open for custom roms since you’ll retain your warranty unless you manage to do physical damage to the phone in the process.
Carriers still sell phones?
If you want to be on Verizon, check out Visible. Same network, but way cheaper. Bring your own device or use one of their cheap options.
While this is true, be aware there are drawbacks to 3rd party budget carriers.
The service includes caveats that your traffic lower priority then VZWs so if your on a busy node you may get throttled or temporarily kicked off
I’ve been using a VMNO for 4 years now, never had an issue.
I used to be Verizon only because of travel for work, and I need it to “just work”. I’ve found NVMO to be no different now.
It’s possible in a specific area this could be the case though. Not all areas have the same coverage.
I was also on Verizon forever since I could always smugly claim more bars than my poor friends
now that I’m kicked off my family plan and I actually have to pay for it and daycare and a mortgage I switched to mint and it works better than my wife’s Verizon
The $25/mo plan is unlimited GB but subject to throttling because it is not premium data.
The $45/mo plan is 50 GB of premium data before you’re subject to possible throttling on the rest unlimited GB.
I hear that throttling is rare except large events, so I’m willing to risk it, I only use about 5 GB mobile data per month anyways.Tbh I don’t need the absolute fastest speeds and I’m fine with some lag if the network is “congested,” so I’m happy with the $25/mo one. I live in a smaller town so YMMV of course.
Yup, my buddy has some Verizon budget deal. It works most of the time in our small ski town, but when the crowds swell on busy weekends, he may as well leave his phone at home.
This has been my experience. I live in a rural area that historically only Verizon has coverage over (and Verizon still has more consistent coverage than any other carrier here) so I’m on a prepaid plan they recently stopped offering for $25/month for 5GB of data. I only ever see a difference at large events in locations that don’t frequently host events of that scale, and even then the amount of slowness varies depending on if they planned ahead and rolled out some temporary cell towers for extra bandwidth.
The only time I’ve been noticably throttled was a couple of years ago at a sold out concert at an up-and-coming venue that’s now a weekday tour stop for mainstream rock and country bands
I tried them for a month and had Kbps bandwidth consistently. This one is directly from Verizon I believe though. They use it to test things on their network like dropping 3g support.
Truly so frustrating
Use Swappa and never pay too much for your new old phone.
I found this out when an old phone stopped getting updates, so I was gonna push a third-party OS, but no, even though it was a carrier unlocked MODEL, Verizon locked it and refuses to unlock it. So the phone is just gonna be out of date forever, I guess!
