• jorp@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    39
    ·
    4 months ago

    Jokes aside you need to look up the concept of the paradox of tolerance. Only people lacking reason and centrists (but i repeat myself) would see “both sides” as being the same

    • FishFace@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      4 months ago

      The paradox of tolerance is almost universally misunderstood. It means that we need to have strong legal guarantees of human rights and punish those who violate those rights. It does not mean that we should try to violently or extra-legally suppress the right when it tries to gain power legally.

      • jorp@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        18
        ·
        4 months ago

        The paradox of tolerance is not about laws which are distinct from morality. It’s not a legal concept at all

        • FishFace@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          4 months ago

          The immorality that it seeks to avoid is the elimination of tolerance. You can achieve that through strong laws without stooping to the level of fascists themselves. I’m not saying it’s a legal point, but that it has a legal solution.

            • FishFace@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              4 months ago

              Why engage someone on a discussion board if you’re not actually willing to discuss the subject…

              At least you understand now that I wasn’t saying the paradox of tolerance is “about laws.”

              • jorp@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                5
                ·
                4 months ago

                You made a wild assertion defining the thing as something it’s absolutely not about while implying I misunderstood it in the same breath, and now I should be charitable in how I interpret you?

                Point being: paradox of intolerance is absolutely agnostic to what’s legal and sometimes it can mean punching nazis

                • FishFace@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  4 months ago

                  The paradox of tolerance says that if you tolerate everything, you will tolerate the intolerant when they take over, which will lead to intolerance.

                  The solution to the paradox of tolerance is simply to not tolerate the intolerant taking over and instituting an intolerant society. There are many examples of un-punched Nazis who have not managed to manifest their intolerance (because the law protects people), as well as punched Nazis who remain unrepentant and go on to commit intolerant crimes. Famously, the actual Nazi party was engaged in street battles with the Communists in inter-war Germany, and this didn’t prevent their rise to power. Their rise was enabled by a complicit populace voting for them, as well as a weak constitution which allowed dictatorial rule (and of course other factors).

                  You brought up the paradox of tolerance in response to someone denouncing violent rhetoric. But you have never explained - and can’t explain because it’s not true - how violent rhetoric is necessary to prevent the erosion of tolerance in society.

                  • jorp@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    3
                    ·
                    4 months ago

                    Ok then I think you’re saying the paradox of tolerance doesn’t necessitate extra-legal action, maybe instead of “misunderstood” you meant “interpreted in ways I disagree with” and that’s fine.

                    It’s a classic liberal position, one that liberals often hold as they sleepwalk towards fascism, but I can forgive you for being a liberal.

                    However, there are many that won’t let laws (which are again morally apathetic and can and often are unjust or fascist in nature themselves) stop us from resisting fascism in every possible way as the situation calls for it. I’m thankful for those people.