Downvotes show that people here don’t know that even in 9th century a large part of the ME’s population was Christian dhimmis. Coptic, Assyrian, Armenian, Nestorian. “Dhimmi” means they couldn’t bear arms and had to pay “protection tax”, and also a “Muslim robbing a dhimmi” situation was usually resolved in favor of the Muslim.
Which is vastly different from being murdered and having their civilizations destroyed, like for instance the Crusaders did.
The Crusaders also did not stop from slaughtering orthodox Christians either.
When looking at the details, Persian, Arab and Mauretanian rules over people of other religions were much more tolerant and civilized than comparable European ruling situations. I guess the saddest example of these are the Spanish Jews, who flourished under the “Moors” and got genocided and ethnically cleansed by the Catholics, after they were no longer dhimmis under Muslim rule.
Which is vastly different from being murdered and having their civilizations destroyed, like for instance the Crusaders did.
The Crusaders didn’t do a fraction of what Muslims did during their actual initial conquest.
When looking at the details, Persian, Arab and Mauretanian rules over people of other religions were much more tolerant and civilized than comparable European ruling situations. I guess the saddest example of these are the Spanish Jews, who flourished under the “Moors” and got genocided and ethnically cleansed by the Catholics, after they were no longer dhimmis under Muslim rule.
I think you should go and learn the meaning of the word “firman” in the Middle-East.
Anyway - I may agree about late Muslim rule in Spain specifically and some periods of Arab rule in Armenia, Mesopotamia and Egypt.
In Iran Zoroastrians were to be exterminated, they wouldn’t get that sweet dhimmi status. Which may be one of the reasons it became largely Christian after the conquest and then largely Shia.
I hope you’re just really misinformed and not just really racist but you should take a quick stroll to your local library, buy a few history books and look around.
Christianity has been far more brutal and repressive for a lot longer than pretty much every other religion out there.
I know what I’m talking about, but I get furious over Westerners trying to find indulgence for their own ancestors’ actions at the expense of Middle-Eastern native Christians, and I see saying that Crusaders were somehow worse than any Muslim conquest as part of that.
Being furious I may sometimes say something imprecise.
Doesn’t negate the fact that Islam is not native to any place outside of the Arabian peninsula, and those areas it has invaded still have native populations and religions not yet completely exterminated, and those are largely Christian. Saying that Crusaders were the baddies, but the Muslims whom they were fighting were not, is disgusting in that context. It’s like that “Irish were like slaves too”, putting things into American context so that you’d understand better.
Same as that myth of Salah ad-Din being benevolent and honorable, mostly started by German Empire’s propaganda as part of their relations with genocidal Ottoman Empire.
Downvotes show that people here don’t know that even in 9th century a large part of the ME’s population was Christian dhimmis. Coptic, Assyrian, Armenian, Nestorian. “Dhimmi” means they couldn’t bear arms and had to pay “protection tax”, and also a “Muslim robbing a dhimmi” situation was usually resolved in favor of the Muslim.
Which is vastly different from being murdered and having their civilizations destroyed, like for instance the Crusaders did.
The Crusaders also did not stop from slaughtering orthodox Christians either.
When looking at the details, Persian, Arab and Mauretanian rules over people of other religions were much more tolerant and civilized than comparable European ruling situations. I guess the saddest example of these are the Spanish Jews, who flourished under the “Moors” and got genocided and ethnically cleansed by the Catholics, after they were no longer dhimmis under Muslim rule.
Are you high or something?
The Crusaders didn’t do a fraction of what Muslims did during their actual initial conquest.
I think you should go and learn the meaning of the word “firman” in the Middle-East.
Anyway - I may agree about late Muslim rule in Spain specifically and some periods of Arab rule in Armenia, Mesopotamia and Egypt.
In Iran Zoroastrians were to be exterminated, they wouldn’t get that sweet dhimmi status. Which may be one of the reasons it became largely Christian after the conquest and then largely Shia.
The Crusaders killed every man, woman, and child in Jerusalem until the streets were flowing with blood.
Go read something on
. This was casual for them. The difference is, though, that Crusaders didn’t intentionally destroy books and art.
They actually literally did. That was a huge part of the crusades.
OK, said one stupid thing. Anyway, this makes them at worst as bad as Muslims.
I hope you’re just really misinformed and not just really racist but you should take a quick stroll to your local library, buy a few history books and look around.
Christianity has been far more brutal and repressive for a lot longer than pretty much every other religion out there.
I’m Armenian, so I know you’re bullshitting me in the context of the Middle-East. We are not talking Americas and Africa here.
I don’t think you know what you’re talking about.
I know what I’m talking about, but I get furious over Westerners trying to find indulgence for their own ancestors’ actions at the expense of Middle-Eastern native Christians, and I see saying that Crusaders were somehow worse than any Muslim conquest as part of that.
Being furious I may sometimes say something imprecise.
Doesn’t negate the fact that Islam is not native to any place outside of the Arabian peninsula, and those areas it has invaded still have native populations and religions not yet completely exterminated, and those are largely Christian. Saying that Crusaders were the baddies, but the Muslims whom they were fighting were not, is disgusting in that context. It’s like that “Irish were like slaves too”, putting things into American context so that you’d understand better.
Same as that myth of Salah ad-Din being benevolent and honorable, mostly started by German Empire’s propaganda as part of their relations with genocidal Ottoman Empire.