If you have no preferred pronouns, just say (none) or something

This will help make people feel more comfortable in this comm and has a side effect of showing you support trans people when making comments in other communities. It will also make reactionaries seethe and make it easier for mods to purge them, and make trans people feel safer all over the fediverse.

  • Fiona@discuss.tchncs.de
    39·
    3 months ago

    So in other words, people who are still eggs, closeted trans people who have an identifiable account and similar groups now have to misgender themselves, which is a much more horrific thing than getting misgendered by someone else.

    Requiring people to state their pronouns is unironically a transphobic policy! Creating an environment in which not stating pronouns can be taken as not supporting trans people is likewise transphobic. The practical consequences of these decisions are extremely bad and I strongly request that you undo it!

    • marcie (she/her)@lemmy.mlOPM
      19·
      3 months ago

      If they have a practical concern with this they can say something like (use name) (unsure) (any) after their username. Just to verify, are you trans yourself? This is common practice in basically every trans space.

      Requiring people to state their pronouns is unironically a transphobic policy!

      No, it’s not.

      closeted trans people who have an identifiable account and similar groups now have to misgender themselves, which is a much more horrific thing than getting misgendered by someone else.

      I would suggest they create a new account for exploring these feelings in trans spaces, then. Its more secure to do that anyways. He/him is the assumed choice in most internet spaces which misgenders a wide swathe of trans people, of course I would prefer it to be they/them, as its better if you don’t know the person’s pronouns. The reality though is we need to implement these things in steps so people can properly understand why its important to use they/them when you don’t know someone’s gender. I still get regularly misgendered with she/her in my name, these people that purposefully misgender must be removed from this space to make it safer, and by having more people with pronouns in username, it will make that job easier.

      • Fiona@discuss.tchncs.de
        27·
        3 months ago

        If they have a practical concern with this they can say something like (use name) (unsure) (any) after their username. Just to verify, are you trans yourself? This is common practice in basically every trans space.

        Yes, and that is WHY I’m so vocal about it, because I have experience with environments where the choice really was to misgender myself or to risk looking like a biggot. It sucked and that

        Requiring people to state their pronouns is unironically a transphobic policy!

        No, it’s not.

        It forces trans people who are early in their transition and eggs to pick between two really bad options. That makes it functionally (not intentionally) transphobic.

        closeted trans people who have an identifiable account and similar groups now have to misgender themselves, which is a much more horrific thing than getting misgendered by someone else.

        I would suggest they create a new account for exploring these feelings in trans spaces, then. Its more secure to do that anyways.

        A big point of something like Lemmy is that you don’t need separate accounts in all the communities that you are in and trans communities should put the bar low for people who are looking to explore things. It may not always be the safest thing to do, but reality is messy and people who are just kinda uncomfortable with what they have may still be far away from understanding.

        He/him is the assumed choice in most internet spaces which misgenders a wide swathe of trans people, of course I would prefer it to be they/them, as its better if you don’t know the person’s pronouns. The reality though is we need to implement these things in steps so people can properly understand why its important to use they/them when you don’t know someone’s gender. I still get regularly misgendered with she/her in my name, these people that purposefully misgender must be removed from this space to make it safer, and by having more people with pronouns in username, it will make that job easier.

        Nobody says you can’t have your pronouns in your username if you want them too, but forcing other people to do the same is really reaching into other people’s personal zone to an extend that I do consider inappropriate.

        • marcie (she/her)@lemmy.mlOPM
          19·
          3 months ago

          Yes, and that is WHY I’m so vocal about it, because I have experience with environments where the choice really was to misgender myself or to risk looking like a biggot. It sucked and that It forces trans people who are early in their transition and eggs to pick between two really bad options. That makes it functionally (not intentionally) transphobic.

          While I appreciate your experience, and of course all of us have been questioning at some point, it is important for building a thriving trans community. The rule stays.

          A big point of something like Lemmy is that you don’t need separate accounts in all the communities that you are in and trans communities should put the bar low for people who are looking to explore things. It may not always be the safest thing to do, but reality is messy and people who are just kinda uncomfortable with what they have may still be far away from understanding.

          Creating a new account is safer, if your argument is you want things to be safer for trans people (re: not showing pronouns in ID), you must also understand that creating a new account is safer for exploration. Your argument is weak.

          If they feel nothing suits them they can say (none) or (use name)

          Nobody says you can’t have your pronouns in your username if you want them too, but forcing other people to do the same is really reaching into other people’s personal zone to an extend that I do consider inappropriate.

          I care about making a safe trans community, and making sure people aren’t misgendered is part of that. This is how you do that. If you’re not for making sure people are gendered properly, leave. 🤷‍♀️ But I suggest you consider it and keep an open mind about it, I genuinely think you have not seen the benefits of this policy.

      • socialpankakemix@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        21·
        3 months ago

        what is the difference between putting (unsure) or (any) and just not having them? you would still basically have to ask or assume you picked the right one.

        on a side note, making “requirements” to be trans is a slippery slope, and nobody should have to prove, or our themselves, just by existing and participating in the world.

        and why should it matter if I know I’m interacting with a trans person? why can’t we all just treat each other with respect, and if we want to find out more about each other individually we can just ask?

        and while your solution of “just make another account” could work for some it simply won’t work for all

        • marcie (she/her)@lemmy.mlOPM
          4·
          3 months ago

          what is the difference between putting (unsure) or (any) and just not having them? you would still basically have to ask or assume you picked the right one.

          the point is to affirm trans identities, by putting those in you are showing you support and affirm trans identities.

          on a side note, making “requirements” to be trans is a slippery slope, and nobody should have to prove, or our themselves, just by existing and participating in the world.

          showing pronouns is not a requirement to be trans, but it is a requirement going forward for this community in order to remove reactionaries. people will be asked to change their IDs. if they cant due to their instance, thats fine.

          and why should it matter if I know I’m interacting with a trans person? why can’t we all just treat each other with respect, and if we want to find out more about each other individually we can just ask?

          the rule explicitly states cis people should show pronouns as well. knowing if someone is trans online (and seeing many others) does have practical benefits in attracting more trans people to a space, though. but this isnt outing yourself as trans, just showing pronouns.

          and while your solution of “just make another account” could work for since it simply won’t work for all

          it certainly does work for all, it takes a couple of seconds

      • Fiona@discuss.tchncs.de
        4·
        3 months ago

        Both of which identify you as not cis, thus they are not options in the very common case where that is an issue.

        • Hexagons [e/em/eir]@hexbear.netEnglish
          17·
          3 months ago

          No, they don’t. I personally know a cis person who has their pronouns on hexbear set as they/them or comrade/them. Those aren’t the pronouns they use in real life.

          If someone assumes you’re trans simply because your pronouns are set to something other than she/her or he/him, that’s kind of on them. People are allowed to lie on the internet. Choose any pronouns you like, it doesn’t matter.

          I personally assume absolutely nothing about the cisness or transness of someone with “any” or “none/use name” as their pronouns of choice.

    • Yor [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
      16·
      3 months ago

      🤡 take. if you don’t want to share your pronouns, unsure or use name are both fine. it doesn’t out you or misgender you. this is debate nonsense to try to discredit a policy that is definitively helpful for trans people

      • Diva (she/her)@lemmy.mlM
        10·
        3 months ago

        if you don’t want to share your pronouns, unsure or use name are both fine.

        Seconding this, putting something there really isn’t a big ask, especially if you’re engaging with people in a way you want to be constructive.