nytimes.com
www.nytimes.com
    • Zaktor@sopuli.xyzEnglish
      82·
      3 months ago

      And even if they’re allowed, they should be treated by Democrats like a donation from the Kochs. They’re a billionaire funded pro-Republican group. Anyone who works with them should be shunned.

    • alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      13·
      3 months ago

      Agreed, but also: if I were in their district (Bush or Bowman), I might even consider voting Republican out of spite.

      Yes, AIPAC is to blame, but Democrats also need to grow a spine against AIPAC. They can’t just take progressive voters for granted.

      • usernamesAreTricky@lemmy.ml
        88·
        3 months ago

        Voting for republican as a protest only pushes things further to the right. It absolutely does not signal that you want to push the other way

        • alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          5·
          3 months ago

          If the Democratic congressional candidate underperforms the Democratic presidential candidate, it definitely sends a signal.

          Obviously, it only “sends a signal” if progressives say what they’re gonna do.

          But it has a double whammy: Dems get a 2 vote difference when you switch.

          • usernamesAreTricky@lemmy.ml
            41·
            3 months ago

            It definitely sends a signal, just the complete opposite one that protesting that way intends. Republicans getting more votes will be seen as a signal that the republican candidate was more popular and outperforming. It encourages people running there to act more like that republican

            Mind you that the republicans are certainly going to have an even worse take on gaza

            Edit: futher, a party looking at a primary moving the right followed by higher republican margins from a protest vote signals that the district as a whole might be moving to right

            Edit2: to really hit the point, protest votes for republicans appear identical to full support of republicans. There is no “why I voted” short section at the ballot box, only number of votes

            • alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              3·
              3 months ago

              You have to look at the bigger picture, not the short term issue.

              If progressives want to be taken seriously, and if Americans want AIPAC out of politics, then there have to be consequences.

              If Latimer and Bell hold on to the seat, corporate and AIPAC Democrats only learn that they can take progressives for granted.

              If they lose their seat, they learn that they need progressive support to win.

              Yeah, two years of a republican rep will suck. But it’s only two years.

              • usernamesAreTricky@lemmy.ml
                20·
                3 months ago

                This is missing what I am saying: Protest votes for republicans appear identical to fullthroated support for republicans. There is no “why I voted” short answer on the ballot

                All it does is signal support the (also AIPAC backed) republicans

                It will not be seen as a consequence of not choosing a progressive

                If a republican wins there, you are absolutely not going to see progressive run in that seat. You will see more and more “centrists” run. The long term picture is worse

                • alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                  1·
                  3 months ago

                  I don’t think you understand how politics and elections work.

                  If people on the flanks give their voting power to “Blue (or Red) no matter who”, you end up with the Clintons and Bushes of the world. Parties have no incentive to actually do anything for their flanks.

                  When people on the flanks leverage their voting power effectively, you get MAGA and Justice Democrats.

                  Anyway, hope you learned something today. Otherwise, hope you have a nice day.

        • DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social
          1·
          3 months ago

          Protest abstentions are better, but also simply too dangerous when Congress is more or less split 50/50. We’re yet again being held hostage by an inherently corrupt election process.

      • themeatbridge@lemmy.world
        16·
        3 months ago

        That’s a stupid fucking idea. “I don’t like the pizza toppings you ordered, so I’m going to punch myself in the testicles. That will show you.”

  • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
    87·
    3 months ago

    I keep telling people, the AIPAC dollars are why you will never see a strong stand against Israel and nobody ever believes me…

    • Ghostalmedia@lemmy.worldEnglish
      4·
      3 months ago

      “Nobody ever believes me”

      2:37pst - 82 upvotes, 2 downvotes

      I don’t know about that. Seems like a lot of people believe you here.

      • harrys_balzac@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        4·
        3 months ago

        They might be referring to people they see IRL. Like family or friends. I’m pretty sure, though, that those are made up things. Like birds and Finland.

  • Jo Miran@lemmy.ml
    68·
    3 months ago

    Representative Cori Bush of Missouri, one of the most outspoken progressives in the House, lost her primary on Tuesday, according to The Associated Press, falling to a campaign by powerful pro-Israel political groups intent on ousting a fierce critic of the nation’s genocide in Gaza.

    Fixed

  • ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    29·
    3 months ago

    People were talking a lot about AIPAC money when Bowman lost his primary, but he lost with 41.3% to his opponent’s 58.7%. It was a wipe-out because he was genuinely unpopular after making a series of unforced blunders. I’m sure that he would have lost, although perhaps not by so much, even with no AIPAC spending.

    Now Bush lost with 46% to Bell’s 51%. That’s not nearly as one-sided as Bowman’s loss, but I still find it strange that commentators are so quick to dismiss the ability of the people of St. Louis to make their own decisions. Maybe they were actually able to think for themselves, consider the two candidates, and pick the one they preferred rather than being led like sheep?

    • Zaktor@sopuli.xyzEnglish
      39·
      3 months ago

      The idea that money is unimportant in influencing votes is quite a take.

    • Jericho_One@lemmy.world
      12·
      3 months ago

      Alternative theory:

      Being pro-Israel and anti-Netenyahu, and pro-Palestinian and anti-Homicidal death cult, is actually really popular amongst people who vote at the ballot box instead of voting online ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    • timbuck2themoon@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      5·
      3 months ago

      Agreed. Fuck PAC money but losing as the incumbent is telling.

      Edit- lot of butthurt “progressives” that can’t handle they’re not as popular as they think.

        • ABCDE@lemmy.world
          17·
          3 months ago

          It’s not even news, in that, it’s not new, they’ve been around for years. A friend of mine went into the West Bank camps a while ago and struggled to find people who hadn’t been arrested, beaten/tortured. Every day the IDF go in and take 5-10 people for no reason at all.

          • BreadstickNinja@lemmy.worldEnglish
            13·
            3 months ago

            It’s happened since Israel’s creation. Next time an apologist tells you how the Palestinians left willingly, ask them about the Deir Yassin massacre.

            From 5:00 A.M. until about 11:00 A.M. there was a systematic slaughter, with them going from house to house. From the eastern edge of the village nobody came out unhurt. Whole families were slaughtered. At 6:00 in the morning they caught 21 young people from the village, about 25 years old, they stood them in a row, near where the post-office is today, and executed them. Many women who watched this horrifying spectacle went crazy, and some are in institutions to this day. A pregnant woman, who was coming back with her son from the bakery, was murdered and her belly was smashed, after her son was killed before her eyes. In one of the conquered village houses a Bren machine gun was set up, which shot everyone who got in its line of fire. My cousin went out to see what happened to his uncle, who was shot a few minutes before, and he was killed too. His father, who went out after him, was murdered by the same Bren, and the mother, who came to find out what happened to her loved ones, died beside them. Aish eydan, who was a guard in Givat Shaul, came to see what was happening, and he was killed.

    • 242@lemmy.cafeEnglish
      20·
      3 months ago

      I always knew you were a piece of shit, but you usually try to hide it.

    • jordanlund@lemmy.worldM
      3·
      3 months ago

      This comment, and other similar ones by Downpunxx are being mass reported.

      People seem to think we have a “bad language” ban. We don’t. You can say whatever you want about the SUBJECT OF AN ARTICLE.

      Directing it at other users gets a comment removed. Slurs are also removed. There is nothing actionable here, you can stop reporting it.