Intro
We would like to address some of the points that have been raised by some of our users (and by one of our communities here on Lemmy.World) on /c/vegan regarding a recent post concerning vegan diets for cats. We understand that the vegan community here on Lemmy.World is rightfully upset with what has happened. In the following paragraphs we will do our best to respond to the major points that we’ve gleaned from the threads linked here.
Links
Actions in question
Admin removing comments discussing vegan cat food in a community they did not moderate.
The comments have been restored.
The comments were removed for violating our instance rule against animal abuse (https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/#11-attacks-on-users). Rooki is a cat owner himself and he was convinced that it was scientific consensus that cats cannot survive on a vegan diet. This originally justified the removal.
Even if one of our admins does not agree with what is posted, unless the content violates instance rules it should not be removed. This was the original justification for action.
Removing some moderators of the vegan community
Removed moderators have been reinstated.
This was in the first place a failure of communication. It should have been clearly communicated towards the moderators why a certain action was taken (instance rules) and that the reversal of that action would not be considered (during the original incident).
The correct way forward in this case would have been an appeal to the admin team, which would have been handled by someone other than the admin initially acting on this.
We generally discuss high impact actions among team before acting on them. This should especially be the case when there is no strong urgency on the act performed. Since this was only a moderator removal and not a ban, this should have been discussed among the team prior to action.
Going forward we have agreed, as a team, to discuss such actions first, to help prevent future conflict
Posting their own opposing comment and elevating its visibility
Moderators’ and admins’ comments are flagged with flare, which is okay and by design on Lemmy. But their comments are not forced above the comments of other users for the purpose of arguing a point.
These comments were not elevated to appear before any other users comments.
In addition, Rooki has since revised his comments to be more subjective and less reactive.
Community Responses
The removed comments presented balanced views on vegan cat food, citing scientific research supporting its feasibility if done properly.
Presenting scientifically backed peer reviewed studies is 100% allowed, and encouraged. While we understand anyone can cherry pick studies, if a individual can find a large amount of evidence for their case, then by all accounts they are (in theory) technically correct.
That being said, using facts to bully others is not in good faith either. For example flooding threads with JSTOR links.
The topic is controversial but not clearly prohibited by site rules.
That is correct, at the time there was no violation of site wide rules.
Rooki’s actions appear to prioritize his personal disagreement over following established moderation guidelines.
Please see the above regarding addressing moderator policy.
Conclusions
Regarding moderator actions
We will not be removing Rooki from his position as moderator, as we believe that this is a disproportionate response for a heat-of-the-moment response.
Everybody makes mistakes, and while we do try and hold the site admin staff to a higher standard, calling for folks resignation from volunteer positions over it would not fair to them. Rooki has given up 100’s of hours of his free time to help both Lemmy.World, FHF and the Fediverse as a whole grown in far reaching ways. You don’t immediately fire your staff when they make a bad judgment call.
While we understand that this may not be good enough for some users, we hope that they can be understanding that everyone, no matter the position, can make mistakes.
We’ve also added a new by-laws section detailing the course of action users should ideally take, when conflict arises. In the event that a user needs to go above the admin team, we’ve provided a secure link to the operations team (who the admin’s report to, ultimately). See https://legal.lemmy.world/bylaws/#12-site-admin-issues-for-community-moderators for details.
TL;DR In the event of an admin action that is deemed unfair or overstepping, moderators can raise this with our operations team for an appeal/review.
Regarding censorship claims
Regarding the alleged censorship, comments were removed without a proper reason. This was out of line, and we will do our best to make sure that this does not happen again. We have updated our legal policy to reflect the new rules in place that bind both our user AND our moderation staff regarding removing comments and content. We WANT users to hold us accountable to the rules we’ve ALL agreed to follow, going forward. If members of the community find any of the rules we’ve set forth unreasonable, we promise to listen and adjust these rules where we can. Our terms of service is very much a living document, as any proper binding governing document should be.
Controversial topics can and should be discussed, as long as they are not causing risk of imminent physical harm. We are firm believers in the hippocratic oath of “do no harm”.
We encourage users to also list pros and cons regarding controversial viewpoints to foster better discussion. Listing the cons of your viewpoint does not mean you are wrong or at fault, just that you are able to look at the issue from another perspective and aware of potential points of criticism.
While we want to allow our users to express themselves on our platform, we also do not want users to spread mis-information that risks causing direct physical harm to another individual, origination or property owned by the before mentioned. To echo the previous statement “do no harm”.
To this end, we have updated our legal page to make this more clear. We already have provisions for attacking groups, threatening individuals and animal harm, this is a logical extension of this to both protect our users and to protect our staff from legal recourse and make it more clear to everyone. We feel this is a very reasonable compromise, and take these additional very seriously.
Sincerely,
FHF / LemmyWorld Operations Team
EDIT: Added org operations contact info
All of them
If veganism was actually good everyone would do it.
It’s all a grift to sell organic pills to supplement the lack of nutrients to gullible people.
Following that logic, why doesn’t everyone exercise enough every week?
Bro literally going through a 400 years old post to harass people lmao
Yeah you definitely a vegan. Please tell me you don’t have cats.
Holy shit lmao you even have your pronouns in your username.
Imagine arguing in bad faith like you did earlier.
I love this idea that veganism is a grift by the big Vitamin B12 supplement industry (???) despite literally zero evidence and in fact evidence to the contrary, unlike the notoriously corrupt and gargantuan animal agriculture industry. God, please be a troll or someone who was out sick when their class learned critical thinking in 3rd grade as well as every single period of science class.
My friend you don’t get to insult other people’s critical thinking when you bought veganism lies hook line and sinker.
It’s plainly obvious to anyone with at least one functional brain cell (admittedly vegans don’t have a lot of those because of their dysfunctional diet) that veganism is wrong. I don’t need to pay ‘researchers’, I just need to point out virtually any vegan community on the internet. You guys are weird. And not the good kind of weird.
You don’t see the evidence of the vegan grift the same way right wingers don’t see they’re getting grifted. When someone tells you to buy all these pills and supplements you don’t think that’s weird, but it is fucking weird if you stop and think about it.
Imagine thinking it’s ok to feed cats lettuce and beans. You guys are weird.
Where has anyone said that?
I’ve been vegan for a little over five years now and I take the same multivitamin I used to take, plus a B12 supplement.
Now I happen to have JUST bought a new bottle from Costco the other day and looking at my receipt it was… $14 for 360 tablets (a year’s supply). So over the last five years Big Kirkland has sucked a hefty $70 out of me for being so gullible.
If only I didn’t have this wool over my eyes! Your conspiracy theory has to be the worst I’ve ever heard.
I mean you were already unnecessarily spending money on multivitamin pills clearly you aren’t the sharpest tool in the shed
Meat eaters need to supplement vitamin d as they’re not getting enough.
So do you because you clearly aren’t getting enough D
Nah, what I’m saying is that everyone needs to supplement.
Bravo. That really solidified your argument.