- cross-posted to:
- antifascism@midwest.social
- cross-posted to:
- antifascism@midwest.social
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This is good advice on it’s face, but what if you’re living in a country full of Nazis?
Like, let’s say - hypothetically - the cops are Nazis. And all your mass media is full of Nazi agitprop. And friends and family are periodically repeating Nazis talking points. And you are feeling increasingly isolated by the sheer madness of the outside world.
Hypothetically, of course.
“What sane person could live in this world and not be crazy?” - Ursula K. Le Guin
Have you considered moving?
Sadly, I’m an English speaker so I’m very limited in my options.
You mean the most widespread language on earth?
But you always have the option to learn another language. It just takes some effort. It is easier to do than it ever has been before in history.
Finding an employer to sponsor you in most countries is exceedingly difficult for most Americans. We can’t just move, unfortunately. There are strict immigration laws in most countries.
There were entire subreddits dedicated to this topic in the before-days. We need a Lemmy community for this complex topic.
Unless they’ve changed policy in the last six months, Portugal will take nearly anyone with stable remote work and fast track them to EU citizenship. This was/is the most viable choice for US citizens.
You are thinking of their nomad visa (D8) which takes 5 years and requires a monthly income of at least $3200 Eur/mo. The problem has always been getting a U.S. employer to allow you to work remote AND out of country.
HR and payroll departments absolutely hate letting remote workers live outside the country because it makes tax liabilities and benefits complicated for them. So, it’s quite rare to find a U.S. company that will do it. Even most multi-national megacorps are assholes about it.
But, if you are a successful freelancer with a very reliable income from non-Portuguese sources, then this may be an option. Most of us don’t fit that bill, unfortunately. Hell, most Americans struggle just to get a hybrid work situation. The idea of international remote or stable freelancing is quite a tall order.
When I pursued it there was a provision for the administrative tax burden of the employer. My employer withheld as usual for a US worker, then I would also need to file and post-pay Portugal’s taxes.
Double taxation; an employer comfortable with it; new culture; national economic issues: I agree it’s a tall order for the vast majority of Americans. And, it also seemed the most viable option. I think we agree that emmigration is quite difficult.
Find yourself a nice blue city and move into the suburbs. Lots of good jobs too.
Come to New Zealand.
We still have Nazis but they spend all their energy on hating the Māori population.
Thats ok, us Maori spend our whole time hating normal kiwis, who then hate nazis. They just need to slot in and direct theirs in the right direction (/s).
I mean, what are they really going to do - deport us back home? Actually don’t answer that, they may try it.
I realised after posting that my post could easily be read contrary to what I meant too; it could easily read like I’m minimising the problems Māori face (TL;DR: colonisation).
I was trying to imply that an immigrant could be spared attention from our Nazis because the Nazis are already busy being Nazis to Māori.
It’s not like our government has spent the last 150 years being Nazis… Ah shit.
All good - I actually wish some of us would stop using the last 150 years as an excuse. Did we have to deal with alot of shit - absolutely, and a not 0 ammout is still ongoing. But FFS, the opportunities are there if you stop using it as an excuse to not do better.
My ancestors spent generations screwing over Māori, maybe not personally (I don’t know) but I’m not prepared to give them a pass on it.
I’m quite happy to let some laziness slide or some rules being taken advantage of or me personally having some tax dollars pent when it’s making up for generations of actual evil.
I’ve been studying our history and it’s pretty fucked… It’s not what we got taught in school.
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It fucking sucks.
You can go to literally any city in Earth and find many English speakers. Estimates are 1.5 - 2 billion people on earth are Anglophones.
You can go to literally any city in Earth and find many English speakers.
I’ve traveled to numerous cities in Europe and East Asia and visited many places where little to no English was spoken.
You can usually find a handful of people in a major business center who specifically cater to foreign visitors, if you’re willing to spend extra for the privilege. But get outside the center of Paris or Berlin or Malmo or Shanghai or Tokyo, and its very easy to find yourself amid a sea of people who have no idea how to understand you much less respond.
Yes, there are call centers in Manila or Taipei where tens of thousands of people have to speak English for their jobs. Yes, the entire staff of the The Palm in Dubai is fluent. No, that’s not really helpful if you’re out in the suburbs of Brussels or living as a student in Seoul. If you need to call a plumber because the sink of your flat in Palermo sprung a leak, there’s a very good chance you’re going to be explaining the problem in Italian or in very elaborate hand gestures.
If it comes to your life, you really may need to learn another language. It happens anyway, move to a new place with a reasonable population of foreign language speakers and you’ll start picking up some words here and there.
I don’t know your situation, just wish you luck, and remember to forward that same welcoming other communities may share with you to others in the future. You may not be the only one intent on escaping.
If it comes to your life, you really may need to learn another language.
Sure. But then moving from Berlin to Krakow isn’t necessarily going to save you from the imperial march.
Also, not a trivial thing to accomplish. It’s a bit like telling a 40 year old who has never learned to swim to brush up real quick before we push you off the side of the boat.
I don’t know your situation
I mean, for the most part I’m fine. This is all hypothetical, right up until it isn’t. But “you should just learn an extra language maybe?” isn’t what I’d call a practical response to the problem of a fascist local government.
Yeah, it’s definitely not trivial, but not impossible, and the relocation may even be a temporary situation. I only suggested taking the leap regardless because that seemed to be your trend, “I’d like to leave but perhaps the language barrier is too intense”, to paraphrase.
And you’re right that it won’t stop the march. I don’t intend to give up my country to fascists. Some people, just due to physical ailments etc, may need to leave vs fight and that’s ok too.
Tbh, if that’s the case then, I will just join in a Marxist group that is serious about arm resistance. I’m too poor to move out anyway.
You know what’s crazy? People who are Nazis would say exactly this about the “Woke” Society. They see no difference in accepting Trans people and killing minorities. Just take a sharp look at the conservative narrative.
“Green Fascist’s with woke ideology” to what about their way of live.
People who are Nazis would say exactly this about the “Woke” Society.
It reminds me of the left/right split during the Iranian Revolution. Folks love to post pictures of “Before 1979” with the wealthy kids of the industrial elites dressed like EU/US fashionistas. Iranian progressives saw this as a privilege of the elites that shouldn’t be exclusive to the upper end of society. Iranian conservatives saw it as a symptom of elitism that shouldn’t be permitted at any tier of society.
After the revolution, conservative Iranians (very briefly) aligned with conservative Americans, as the Ayatollah and the Reagan/Thatcher governments aligned on this idea of regressive religious anti-Communism. But then Iran didn’t open itself back up as a western gas station, so the American white supremacists and the Iranian Islamic supremacists fell back into conflict again.
Then it was just two ultra-orthodox conservative groups screaming “Woke Decadent Radicals!” at one another, while everyone around them were ground to paste by the slew of wars to follow.
Awesome explanation. The similarities are striking. I don’t understand why people have the tendency to interfere with others lives. Conservatives have a fetish for this.
I don’t understand why people have the tendency to interfere with others lives
Codifying cultural norms into law is a normal part of politics. The big question is what you want to normalize.
So why do they want to codify stuff they don’t want to follow?
How man conservative Republicans had an abortion, but it was different in their case? The inconsistency makes me believe it’s not about politics.
So why do they want to codify stuff they don’t want to follow?
Selective enforcement. You use the law to pursue your political opposition. Planned Parenthood is a major organizing tool for liberal Democrats, so crushing the organization in your city/state means disrupting how Democrats fundraise and GOTV. Meanwhile, Republican-aligned physicians and unorganized back-alley clinics can provide your daughter or mistress the procedure on the DL.
Yeah. I forgot they are incapable to feel positive emotions for “people in the other cult”… while they are a homogeneous mass compared with the heterogenous multicultural chaos that is,… Literally everyone else who is not aligned with Nazis.
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Complain about it online and hope someone else does something about it, as far as I can tell.
That last line needs to be in all caps at the top. Never call the cops on Nazis, it’ll just mean more Nazis putting the boot in.
This is like basic common sense that is drilled into you from a young age if you’re not white.
Got a problem and you call the cops? Now you’ve got two problems.
I’m white and even as a kid I felt unsafe around cops. As early as maybe 13 I’d reached this conclusion on my own.
I’m not sure what took everyone else the extra few decades.
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To be honest, this is the most disappointing and depressing line.
This is so goddamn exhausting.
Thirty years ago I was reading poorly photostatted (sic) fliers at the local record shop explaining the difference between Nazis with red shoelaces and Nazis with yellow shoelaces. It was exhausting then, too. They’re all basic bitch Nazis. Treat them the same way you would treat a potentially harmful arthropod, like a scorpion. You don’t have to be a fucking entomologist to understand this shit.
Shun the Nazi. Leave it alone. Don’t ask for help from Nazis.
Gotcha. Summary:
Group name: Some shit that 12-year-olds would be embarrassed to use as a gang name, but surprise, the guy who came up with this shit was 60+ or something
Ideology: The same ol’ shit, you’ve heard it all before
Identifiers: Well, this kind of shit, they kind of stick out from the crowd
What to do: The usualSo, the plan is “the usual”: continue to minimize the threat and ignore it.
in other words either a middle age or a general identity crisis.
TIL Best Buy employees are part of the Patriot Front.
I knew they had it out for Radio Shackers, it just took them a while to admit it.
I thought we had all agreed that we punch nazis? LIke was this not the agreed apon reaction. If you had something more dangerous than a fist I would say you could use that… but this feels overly cowardly
how many nazis have you punched
For legal reasons I am not sure I should state the amount of fist fights I have been in on the internet
It has been a while, but it used to happen around once a week a back in the day. They used to show up to music venues they weren’t wanted at, and if made to leave, would start fights. If they were returning from a place they got the boot from, they would just poor in and start fighting. If it wasn’t a place they could just enter, they would congregate outside.
Several for sure. Back in my 20’s at parties and punk shows. Nazi punks fuck off!!
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Individual violence only in defense of self and others. For violence against an ideology one should organize better than the enemy.
If you don’t know how then study the unions. They’ll likely lead us, once again.
Never fly solo
If you had something more dangerous than a fist I would say you could use that… but this feels overly cowardly
Na dawg. This is why I carry. I have a bad back so I’m not fucking around like that.
I need the Nazi to make the first move anyway.
i think it’s important to note that “1488” especially the 88 is a Nazi dog whistle.
So many 3% stickers on cars around my area
Should give them a 3% brick through the back window. /s
3% not brick works better.
Maybe do something like siphon all but 3% of the gas from the tank and let a similar amount of air from their tires
Using the ceramic piece of a spark plug as the “bullet” and just about any sort of sling will break the cars windows without setting off most car alarms.
Everyone of the people I know who have the sticker/tattoo aren’t Nazis, they are big into guns and tend to be anti-government though.
Three percent is from the population% that supported the American revolution at its inception, at least that’s what I’ve understood of it.
I’m sure there are plenty of Nazis that also claim to be 3%ers but I’ve never known it to be a Nazi thing, maybe they have tried to claim it.
Similar to the OK hand sign I will never see it as a symbol of nazism/white supremacy.
Most of those stickers aren’t Nazis
If you see 6 people at a table happily socializing with 1 Nazi, you’re actually looking at 7 Nazis.
3%'s had no problems marching with Nazis on J6, or at Charlottesville. Fuck 'em.
Pussy as Nazis hiding their faces. Be a man, show your face, so someone can throw a brick at it.
Or you know…multiple.
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A brick doesn’t care about a mask.
Nice. Good looking out.
Regarding the “What to do…” section, Be careful about point #2. The person in charge might be a nazi that invited other nazis.
#2 should also specify that you should say something like “There are gang affiliated people here, as evidenced by [these specifiers]” rather than saying “There’s nazis!!” People aren’t going to take you as seriously if you say nazi rather than organized crime…
Is it still acceptable to wear a S.H.A.R.P. patch? Don’t they have a Spartan helmet on it?
Where’s the elephant in the room?
How to spot a nazi: nazi salute, shouts racial slurs. Man you learn every day something new.
“Blue shirt khaki pants” is the average Walmart worker uniform, or used to be, probably represents at least a million laborers in the US. Don’t think this chart is very helpful in that quadrant.
