To be clear, not talking about this community, obviously 😛.
What’s the point of writing down rules, if mods just do what they want? But I suppose that’s the risk you take when you call someone a liar in a small community; they might be a mod.
Edit: I’m not trying to say that mods suck, they perform a useful and often thankless job. Just that it can be difficult for small communities to get a healthy number of good mods, which can become a problem.
I get the feeling you’re speaking from experience
Your honor, the prosecution is sullying the defendant’s reputation
Lemmy world’s admins silently banned me from the entire instance after I said that anticommunism is equivalent to pronazism.
The only reason I knew is because the amount of weird harassing comments I was getting from there suddenly dropped off.
Your opinion is braindead, however, I’ll defend to the death your right to say and have it. Shouldn’t have been banned for that. Shame on them.
Your opinion is braindead
Justify.
There are potentially 3 different groups of people that may ban you for a comment. If you break a community rule, a moderator may ban you as you would expect from reddit. However, since reports also notify the admins of the community instance and the admins of the instance of the reporter, you may end up banned by an admin if they believe you are breaking an instance rule.
The modlog is great for transparency, but lemmy should also make it clear what group has banned you and why. I haven’t been banned before so I’m not sure what that process looks like currently though.
This is my first time. I’m not even sure where to find the modlog in jebora.
And yeah, notifying me that an action has been taken against me and the reason for that action would help me understand that I’ve done something wrong, what it was, and how to modify my behavior.
It happens on Lemmy all the time. I’ve been shadowbanned at least three times, all on the bigger instances.
I really, really suspect that the big Lemmy instances are being run by Reddit admins or spooks or some-such. They’re moderating their instances in the exact same way Reddit did minus the profiteering. The censorship is the exact same.
Also, the fact that it’s possible to shadowban people and the software itself doesn’t circumvent that by auto-messaging you or putting a banner on the top of your screen when you are banned from an instance or community is reason #589238923 why Lemmy fucking sucks ass.
It really does feel like the more popular instances are nazi bars run by the same kinds of people who made reddit shitty.
It’s because the most insufferable people from reddit all came over to Lemmy/kbin when they got banned for being exceptionally insufferable.
Being in favor of free speech means allowing the people you hate to talk and say what they want to say too.
Being against free speech is authoritarian.
Eh sometimes. Paradox of tolerance is a real danger.
But it’s good to allow people a chance to grow.
The worst thing you can do is burn bridges with people you disagree with.
The best way to make a bigot not be a bigot anymore is for the people they hate to be friendly to them.
There’s this one black musician that has gotten quite a few grand wizards of the KKK to leave the clan, just by having friendly conversations with them.
Doing that makes them realize that they’re going through the same shit as the people they hate, which then makes them realize that the people they really should be directing their hate toward are billionaires.
Because we’re all getting a lower wage that we should be, we’re all paying a higher interest on debt than we should be, we’re all paying higher rent than we should be. We’re all paying more for our necessities than we should be. And the billionaires’ unbridled narcissistic avarice is why we’re all suffering.
That’s why every media outlet always twists narratives to make people hate each other. If we’re fighting each other, we won’t focus on the real evil that’s looming over all of us.
while I absolutely agree with you in a private setting, in a public setting I believe it does more harm than good to provide a platform for people to preach hate.
Censoring anyone will eventually mean censoring you too.
Being tolerant of the intolerant will eventually mean destroying the tolerant.
You’re not being tolerant by letting people say mean things. You can say different mean things right back to them.
Free speech works both ways.
I disagree. Saying certain things are hate crimes, and shouldn’t be allowed. Like burning crosses, etc.
Deciding where to draw the line is difficult and subjective, but that doesn’t mean that it’s best to have no line.
I need to make a pie chart.
Reasons I have been banned from subforums:
20% swearing at trolls.
20% swearing at Nazis.
60% genuinely polite interactions catching a boot in the ass for incomprehensible reasons.
Your mistake was interacting with internet hatethiests. The only interaction you should ever have with them is reminding everyone in the room that they were a big part of the rise of the alt right and that the movement never underwent even a little bit of denazification.
Hey look, a worse take than ‘how dare you say yes.’
I’m on your side, dumbass.
Fuck the lot of you.
fuck you nerd
Do you think you were the good guy in that thread? You came off incredibly hostile. I would not have banned you for just that, but still I can see why.
How.
You signed off every comment with a snide shitty oneliner. Even if your point is well founded, conversing like that is going to catch you flak.
The hell I did. One’s an explanation, one is literally “thanks,” one is the only sentence and pointing to the initial not-remotely-hidden explanation, and one is that explanation made even more explicit.
What the fuck else was I supposed to say? Do I have resting bitch font - are people just automatically reading things in the shittiest possible tone of voice? Read it conversationally and there’s none of that alleged tone.
This and so many other conversations go ‘Why are you mad?!’ ‘I’m not and I don’t know how to convince you of that.’ ‘Ah-HA!’ There’s no winning. Once someone’s assumed you’re fucking with them, somehow, the words don’t matter.
In a normal conversation you’d absolutely come across as a massive dick. You don’t have “resting bitch font” you just sound absolutely insufferable. You can make your point while not being a dick about it, you just need to choose your words better and not go for the “uh huh, definitely, here’s why you’re wrong and why I’m right, now piss off”
Saying things like
“Go on, tell me…”
Or “thanks for playing along”
Is the stuff. Nobody likes that.
Yeah I don’t think that’s the issue, when the person who showed up to tell me and play along took the first one completely literally and the second one as sneering sarcasm. Where the goddamn mod chimes in is after a bone-dry run-down of how both were misunderstandings. Their scolding simultaneously blames me for expecting people to be psychic and also for talking down to them. How the fuck is anyone supposed to deal with that self-contradictory blend of bad-faith readings?
This is the exact kind of aggression people were saying was unwelcome.
Yeah I don’t think that’s the issue,
That’s absolutely the issue. You were being condescending. If you can’t be polite then don’t respond at all.
Ok
Often the mods are arbitrary and inconsistent. Moderation can really suck sometimes
Arbitrary is fine - there’s a reason we have humans do this. But any enforcement of bad rules will always suck.
“Be nice” is a bad rule.
“Be nice” is a recipe for failure, and it always winds up protecting mildly cautious assholes. If you see someone reply ‘so you think [insane garbage unrelated to parent comment]?’ and the accused shoot back ‘shut up,’ and you only remove the person brushing off that troll, your forum is for trolls. That is who you’ve protected. That is what you’ve encouraged. That is how things will go.
If you think the right answer is to always expend great effort peeling apart that disinformation, you do not know what trolling is.
It’s outright insane, in communities about serious topics. If your forum’s about knitting - yeah, you can expect and demand televisable language. The vibe is properly casual. But if you deal with politics then you’re going to get people being called subhuman, and if you don’t come down ten times harder on sneering bigots than their pissed-off victims, you’re not preventing abuse, you’re enabling abuse.
Trying to enumerate all the ways someone could deserve a time-out is a fool’s errand. You can be mercilessly rude with nothing but a thumbs-up emoji. Or “Great Save!” More importantly - some vitriol is justified. Be human, god dammit, and spend thirty seconds figuring out if someone’s being a crank or merely dealing with cranks. If you think there’s never any reason for one user to tell another where to shove it, then you are wrong and you should quit.
Being able to call someone a fucking asshole when they are being one is a valuable thing, especially when they dodge filters in doing so.
I’ve never seen “be respectable” rules that haven’t been in service of protecting nazis, so I always go out of my way to be as thorny as possible.
EVERY single ban i’ve caught so far has always been the result of going against the mods/admins (usually calling them out on their contradictions) or, more often, for being openly antifascist. They’re going to look for an excuse to ban me anyway and if they don’t find one they’ll just make something up, so why bother being nice?
Yay! The whole Reddit experience, but without warning…
meh if you’re being a shit starting nazi fuckwit I’m all for just banning and moving on.
First they came for…
They in this case being the fucking nazis, who first came for the trans people, and then the communists, the socialists, the trade unionists, Jewish people, etc
Reddit bans you for calling out the shit starting nazi fuckwits.
A ttrpg called .dungeon got a remaster recently and I keep coming back to one of the screenshots on the store page, because I’m such a big fan of the rules for community moderation it enumerated:
#5 is the worst rule there. I’ve been called that for the most milquetoast of statements. You really have to be more specific. This community sounds like an annoying pain to be a part of tbh, I don’t have time to feel like I’m stepping on glass every day
If you have to step on glass to not side with genocide and oppression then that sounds like a you issue.
A prime example of the vitriol he’s talking about!
It’s true, I have zero chill.
Clearly you have no sense for nuance. Not everything anyone disagrees with is siding with genocide and oppression just because they disagree. It’s concerning that that’s immediately what you assumed.
Nuance nonces on their way to defend nazi war criminals.
I really need to make that a bot.
Stop lickin boots then
Nothing says “well-moderated community” quite like vague, easy-to-bend rules!
Nothing says bootlicking by applying the same bad-faith thinking you accuse others of having without caring about the fact that humanity has had to operate on good faith the entire time it’s existed.
Define “bootlicking” please.
Antidisestablishmentarianism. That’s functionally what it is.
That should be in the rules instead of “bootlicking,” then. Well-defined rules make it harder to enforce them unfairly. The fewer questions the community has to ask about guidelines, the easier it is to follow them.
Thank you for answering in good faith, by the way.
