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Very interesting how all those “pretend socialists” only exist in the third world, and all the “real socialists” existin the west. Yet all the successful revolutions have been done in the third world by “pretend socialists”, and the so called “real socialists” in the west have accomplished nothing. Their biggest success of the “real socialists” in the west being capitalist welfare states or social democracies that rely on old school imperial relationships to fund their welfare in a select few areas.
No Eurocentrism present to this line of thought here at all…
What do you think of Nelson Mandela OP? He was a very good leader, right? You know that he considered Cuba an ally and supported their revolution as Cuba sent troops to fight against the apartheid government in the border wars, took inspiration from Mao and called the Chinese revolution a miracle, thanked the Soviets for giving unending support in the fight against apartheid while receiving the a Lenin Peace Prize? So is Nelson Mandela now a fascist according to your meme?
“Authoritarian” is completely drtetmined by
Prepare for the 14year Olds on hexbear to come in and pretend that China has a great government
Yeah, the Chinese government is totally very democratic and is receptive to the criticism of its citizens! They never censor words and topics they don’t like on their social media platforms!
It also respects women so much and represents them very proportionally
Also they don’t censor any single website internationally
You know, that actually makes sense. 14-year-olds. It would explain a lot about hexbears.
Just got banned from Hexbear for saying something negative about China and the US at the same time. They have no tolerance of any discussion that challenges their preconceptions.
OP determining whether to believe the US about socialist movements
Also look up double genocide theory and stop trivializing the holocaust by calling communists fascists.
OP is not calling communists fascists. OP is calling the dictators pretending to be communist, fascists!
The initial meme included basically all communist countries, they mean communists.
Also which communist countries had dictators again?
The initial meme included basically all communist countries
This meme is against the initial meme.
Also which communist countries had dictators again?
China, North Korea
This meme is against the initial meme.
The initial meme made fun of being against those countries as a socialist. This meme is against that idea. Ergo…
China, North Korea
When?
When?
Always has been. Government taking control of every action of citizens is dictatorship. Theese people have total power of the country
…Ergo…
What??
Always has been. Government taking control of every action of citizens is dictatorship. Theese people have total power of the country
The DPRK and China both don’t have parties that are in any way capable of controlling every action of their citizenry. They both have massive grassroots democratic institutions. Hell, look up whole process peoples democracy and the taean work system.
what
The initial meme made fun of being against those countries as a socialist. This meme is against that idea. Ergo… the meme is against all those socialist countries.
no way you’re trying to pretend like dprk is a free country…
go ask some refugees what it’s like
Sorry, who were the communists during the holocaust?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_…
First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews And I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me And there was no one left To speak out for me
Do you mean the german ones thrown in the camps or the soviet leadership who were the last of the eventual allied powers to do any sort of appeasement with Hitler (after exhausting all attempts to form an alliance with Britain and France) because communism is less aligned with fascist goals than liberalism is aligned with fascist goals, massive underexageration mine? Do you mean the communist low level officials who helped in a massive ethnic relocation program to move vulnerable minorities out of the way of the eventual german invasion? Or do you mean the population of the only communist nation which lost 26 million people, around 1/6th of their population, stopping the holocaust?
Or were you referring to the joke about racism? If so, you gotta look up how the population of the USSR was not considered white at the time. Emma Goldman for example basically called Stalin a slanty eyed conniving Asian, for example. Nowadays slavs are still called orcs and shit by westerners.
Fidel Castro is morally superior to every US president.
Counterpoint: Fidel is the reason Trudeau exists
Based
Jimmy Carter?
Supplied arms to support genocide in Indonesia, among other crimes. Him building homes now is just some light penance before he’s shipped off to hell. https://fair.org/media-beat-column/jimmy-carter-and-human-rights-behind-the-media-myth/
Set up all the groundwork for funding the Mujahideen terrorists in Afghanistan, the funding of the dictatorship and death squads in El Salvadore, setting up the groundwork for the fuckery Reagan did with Iran-Contra.
Carter also jumpstarted neoliberalism rot monetization and the drive to privatize. Willingly laid the foundation for Reagan.
Cuba is a beacon of progress and humanity in the Americas. Fidel Castro was a hero. Also a pro at dodging the CIA’s kill squads.
Cuba did some good things - in education, in medicine - but if it’s such a wonderful country, why is everything there a decaying flashback to the 1950s where everything is falling apart?
Lmao, that’s a testament to communist Cuba’s success. No other form of government could withstand a US embargo for a year and not collapse. Cuba has withstood for DECADES and has surpassed the US in life expectancy. The buildings are kinda shabby, but homelessness, infant mortality, illiteracy are all LOWER than the US, the richest country in the history of the world.
Because the US has been embargoing it for 50 years to prevent it from getting everything it needs.
The UN regularly votes on the US embargo of Cuba, and only the US and its lapdog Israel support it.
oh no the tankies be tanking
You have a lifetime of anti communist propaganda to overcome. You’re close, take the last step and realize you’ve been lied to about AES countries. No place is a utopia, but those countries are lights in the dark.
I agree. Fascist countries like Denmark, Germany and Canada often get called “socialist” and they have been disastrous for the reputation of socialism.
Of course /s. Germany, with Fuhrer Schultz, Denmark with Grand Admiral Frederiksen (I had to look it up lmao), and Canada with Supreme Commander Trudeau. All of them are actively involved in passing legislation against socialists and Muslims. All of them are involved in gathering Muslims into re-education camps. When socialists protested their respective governments for starting to become capitalist, they were run over by tanks. Also, all of these governments prevent their citizens from accessing the internet outside their own countries. Agreed! Very fascist indeed!
Also, all of these governments prevent their citizens from accessing the internet outside their own countries
if this comment is anything to go by that’s just a massive W for them
You are certainly American but that’s especially stupid, is it a troll?
Would you like more resources or is this enough?
https://www.businessinsider.com/denmark-strict-immigration-policies-ghetto-neighborhoods-2018-7
https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/03/16/denmarks-mismatched-treatment-syrian-and-ukrainian-refugees
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/18/germany-afd-polls-krah/
try asking a real question and you might learn something
Or pour hot mountian dew down your computer so we don’t have to see your posts anymore
Try to get your head out your ass, that hrlps with thinking! ;)
Try to get your head out your ass, that hrlps with thinking! ;)
I think its sarcasm
When you give everyone in your nation a house, food, and healthcare while protecting yourself from the West that’s actually fascism.
Westerners deciding who’s doing real socialism or not. Westerners expressing their most vile sentiment for foreign countries rather than their own imperialism. Westerners praising the words of their own imperialist intelligence agencies. Westerners unironically praising their own nations for civil liberties like the freedom of fascists to assemble, freedom of racists to express themselves, freedom of parents to own their children, and freedom of school districts to continue racial segregation. Westerners praising imperialist nations like Norway as socialist while using bold language like fascism to describe places under that same exact threat of imperialism, like Cuba and Vietnam.
Westerners claiming foreign governments are merely pretending to be socialist, while claiming unorganized misinformed chauvinistic westerners are the true heirs to socialism, despite all they do is post online and complain about foreign nations.
Westerners praising anarchist movements from 100 years ago despite having no common cause with those movements, no connection to the circumstances within them, and probably no actual admiration of them. Westerners praising a bastardized, sectarian, perverse form of anarchism rather than attempting unity with organizations in their areas. Westerners refusing to speak with actual anarchists in their area, who by and large don’t give a shit and just want to hand out food or help at shelters. If Buenaventura Durruti were alive today he’d be regarded with scorn by western chauvinists.
Westerners continuing to bring up Trotsky of all people, who wasn’t relevant to world affairs for the last 15 years of his life and certainly not the past 80 years. Westerners not reading a single word of Trotsky’s work, westerners focusing entirely on Trotsky’s feud with Stalin, westerners not knowing that Trotsky was a literal military commander. Westerners calling themselves Trotskyists in 2023 for some reason. Westerners deciding they have a feud with Joseph Stalin, a man who died in 1953.
Westerners attempting to praise their own socialist leadership, who happen to be a scattered group of imperialist-aligned social democrats, Twitch streamers, and actual antisemitic grifters such as in the case of Caleb Maupin.
Its hard to challenge your opinions when you gish gallup 500 talking points
You gish galloped, you ad homin-ed, you no true scotsman-ed, you one true scotsman-ed, and then you mot and bailey-ed.
Checkmate sir
Its ok to say you dont know what any of those mean. You dont have to make an ass out of yourself in the process
I believe you just engaged in a masked man fallacy taken to the ad absurdum.
Checkmate
I believe you just engaged in ligma balls fallacy with a terminally online spin.
Checkmate
Hey, that one was decent actually! Good job!
500 talking points and you couldn’t find a single thing to call into question
Warning: this is a hexbear user
Warning: 🚨 ⚠️ Hexbearian detected! Everyone, into the posting bunkers!
Nothing more ‘socialist’ than supporting the current world order but with some welfare
You forgot “I wonder why fuel prices are sky rocketing even though we voted a president that promised to fight fossil fuels for climate bullshit”
Enjoy! I’ll be here laughing.
What’s your opinion on Cuba OP?
Cuba is an interesting one.
The problems with Cuba are political prisoners and their handling of AIDS. And a huge chunk of issues intertwined with the trade embargo.
As with all nations, it could be better, but it’s far from the worst nation in the world.
Better than the US that’s for sure.
Each year around a 100,000 Cubans are willing to risk their lives for a chance to live in the US.
The US is far from perfect, but people don’t get on rafts hoping to make it to Cuba.
“Rich country good, poor country bad!”
Very astute political analysis there
Notice how when confronted with facts the hexbear has no real argument but assumes being obnoxious is the same as making a coherent argument.
Cuban refugees carry a higher level of risk than other countries, and yet they still come. Ignoring facts doesn’t make a country better. You wouldn’t let a fact like that slide from the US. Hexbears lack intellectual honesty.
So once again, your argument is “rich country good, poor country bad”
No, it’s that saying one place is worse doesn’t make it so.
Human development index and quality of life studies put the US ahead of Cuba. Cuba isn’t a hellhole that many people make it out to be, but that doesn’t automatically make it better than the US.
Cuba has better healthcare and lower cost of living, but Americans aren’t on rafts to Cuba.
One of the problems with enacting good and lasting change in the western world is that life is pretty darn good on the whole. It could be a lot better, but just shouting that the US is bad is mindless propagada. Be better than that.
Tankies forget that Trotsky existed.
The fact that you think Trotsky would’ve been less authoritarian than Stalin betrays that you don’t know shit about him yourself.
Even alternatehistoryhub, infamous youtuber known for his weird conservative takes, came to this conclusion
Even a stupid person known for their insane takes would agree with your conclusion?
Damn, that sounds like bullet proof reasoning. Sorry for doubting you.
I’m glad you could enlighten us with a post that doesn’t bother to explain anything.
Why would the Commissar of Military and Naval affairs under Lenin, who was instrumental in founding the red army and oversaw the purging of Mahknovists and other anarchist elements in the early USSR be less authoritarian than Stalin?
Why post statements in the form of a question?
Because I wanted to know, why do you think Trotsky was less authoritarian than Stalin?
If you spent more time explaining things rather than “dunking on libs” maybe your movement would be less on the fringe. I don’t have an opinion on who is more authoritarian, which is why it was obnoxious that you matter-of-factly made your point without any substance.
I took it for granted that people who had a stance on Trotsky would know who he is.
I’m a trotskyist, you are wrong.
Why would you defend a guy who ordered deaths alongside Lenin then immediately left and cozied up to 1920s American fascism to make books about “The Betrayed Revolution” because he didnt get his share?
Trotsky was a socialist. After his defection, he did next to nothing to advance socialism, only to passively denounce the closest thing the world had then to a Socialist Order. And he did this by going to their enemies, objectively the least socialist-tolerant bloc on Earth. Archetypal example of a self-centered “leftist” who folds inward and exclusively talks about their own life/‘persecution’ after one falling-out with the organized left. Look at Trotskyists nowadays and tell me they aren’t walking parodies who talk like Broadway characters. It says a lot abt how off-kilter you have to be to throw yourself behind Trotsky’s weirdo ‘cause’
EDIT: To be clear, while I havent seen much of his work, I respect parts of his legacy. I’m sure there’s a lot of insight in his writing - reading criticism from a seasoned former Bolshevik is interesting, and the perspective is useful for making sense of the wider movement. I also understand he was under a lot of personal pressure at the time he fled the USSR. Despite any merit Stalin showed in WW2 or the Union’s massive industrialization effort, it must’ve seemed unfair to many party members that he was chosen to succeed Lenin (not sure of specifics on that event). I’d even say his assassination wasn’t necessary, and the graphic details aren’t something I take pride in. However, at the end of the day Trotsky’s decision to defect was a net negative for socialism in the early 20th century. He should’ve tried to be a different kind of conscientious objector, not a voice of anti-Soviet dissent.
Wow. I guess someone has never actually read Trotsky or anything from Trotskyist. Try some Tony Cliff. Also, how you think Trotskyist sound today is not an indictment of Trotsky. Being critical of a revolution that has failed and the leaders and politics that followed is not the crime you think it is.
Jesus fucking Christ this is not the revolutionary left we need. Grow the fuck up.edit: That’s funny, either you posted your edit while i was typing my response or I didn’t see it some how. either way. I’m sorry for being such a dick. I’m just so fed up with folks online regarding, what i would call state capitalist countries as genuine socialism, and rejecting any criticism of said states, as capitalist loving trash. Somehow Marxism has become a ridged dogma for these people. With the campist and the tankies distorting revolutionary socialism so much i fell like i live in upside down world. again sorry comrade. I would suggest “the two souls of socialism”. side note Trotsky was Lenin’s pick as leader not Stalin. Had he not “defected” he would likely have been killed by Stalin much earlier, like many of the seasoned former Bolsheviks who lead and then tried to defend the revolution against Stalin.
I think there are more Ultras than Trots these days, this is like seeing a unicorn.
