running out of steam
THESE PEOPLE HAVE TO GET DEGREES IN FUCKING ENGLISH TO DO THIS
they need to use super generic popular idioms in order to be search engine optimized. technology killed journalism
The other day I was thinking about the movie Scrooged with Bill Murray, and how during one of the Scenes of Christmas Passed he got his girlfriend a pack of Ginsu knives for Christmas and how that’s on-theme for his character who is obsessed with TV because Ginsu knives were a big As Seen On TV product and how someone on the writing staff must have went to college to think of that.
That’s nice sweetie 👵
GOG was good for acquiring and re-releasing OLD GAMES. somewhere along the way they decided they wanted to compete with the big platforms and be “We’re just like them but without DRM”
I haven’t used GOG for years, they allowed me to relive a few of my old adolescence favorites, but stopped being useful to me a long time ago :/
Selling old games and new games isn’t mutually exclusive, and more money tends to be spent on new games than old ones. It’s not unreasonable to expect that selling new games too could subsidise the work to make old games run on modern platforms.
i mean I get that, but what I was saying was the original purpose of the store became an afterthought.
Let’s be honest, this was apparent for a long time. Steam, a centralised platform, has been making strides in Linux gaming and has been making innovation after innovation together with its steam deck. Gog, a forefront to freedom in gaming, barely did anything for the Linux gaming scene. No innovation either. Its just the simple (and well needed) premise of no DRM. It’s necessary, but not enough. It didn’t cater to its niche, it just committing to creating one under a premise. That’s not how you go forward. How does this connect to bad management? Well, I think that with good management gog would make different moves. And wouldn’t rest on its laurels so much.
The hell do you mean “barely did anything for the Linux gaming scene”? Listen, I’m up to my neck with Linux gamer crybabies always bitching about how someone doesn’t throw them a bone, for years. Valve is doing Linux gamers a great service and since Linux was all about free-this and open source that, DRM-free is at least a thing. Fucking can’t please whiny Linux gamers.
That’s… Largely a financials problem.
Steam: $8-10 billion/y
GOG: $80-120 million/y
Steam can throw 10 GOGs worth of resources at a problem and barely break a sweat. Yeah, of course they are making huge strides, that’s how consolidation of wealth works when that wealth is actually reinvested.
It’s pretty hard for GOG. Many of the things people don’t like about GOG are not really GOG’s fault, they are just a result of small market share. Steam is the bigger platform, and so naturally it gets priority for basically everything.
You game doesn’t work on Steam? Then you’d better fix it immediately, because that’s where the bulk of players are. But if your game doesn’t work on GOG… well… maybe fix it when you get some spare time. (Or maybe don’t have a GOG version, because you don’t want to have to keep multiple platforms up-to-date.)
So publishers and developers are generally less cooperative with GOG. And GOG themselves obviously have much more limited resources to do stuff themselves.
Steam’s recent work with Linux has been great. And I do wish GOG would have something like that. But again, Valve has vast resources for that kind of thing - and they’ve been working on it ever since the Windows 8 appstore threatened to wipe them out. (That threat fizzled out; but nevertheless, that was what got the Linux ball rolling for Valve.) I’m in two minds about whether GOG should try to boost their Linux support. On the one hand, GOG is all about preservation and compatibility… and so it makes sense to have better Linux compatibility. On the other hand, it would be leaning further into a niche; and working on a problem that is kind of solved already. i.e. We can already run GOG games on Linux with or without a native linux version… it just could be nicer… Maybe it’s not a good use of GOG’s resources to go for that.
(That said, when I look at their linux
start.shscripts and seecd "${CURRENT_DIR}/game" chmod +x *it makes me think they could probably put at least a bit more effort into their linux support.)How would a game “not work” on GOG? isnt their whole thing that they give you just the game files with no DRM or whatever?
experienced this with BG3 on gog while my friends had the steam version, when it launched. Patches on gog were delayed by sometime a week, preventing us to play together.
The conspiracist in me wonders if this is intentional as the result of a deal with other publishers. Maybe its just that ‘the devs didnt get around to it’ but honestly with how simple it should be to release things on GOG i more wonder if it isnt suppression.
Are you seriously asking how a piece of computer software might fail to operate correctly? As much as DRM sucks, it isn’t the only thing that can cause something to not work.
No im saying theres no such thing as a “GOG” version afaik. Its just the game files. What features differentiate a ‘GOG’ version from the same game acquired anywhere else? Their whole business model is offering games without any DRM or storefront added features, you dont even need to use their launcher, you can just download the game files directly. Whereas ‘Steam’ versions have all sorts of code added to be compatible with Steam.
You pretty much said it. The Steam version often has all sorts of stuff for Steam integration… and the Steam version is the default version. So various hooks for achievements and networking and mod installation may be different. Messing with any of that could easily break something. Furthermore, GOG does have its own API that some games use (again, for achievements and cloud saves); so if a game has chosen to use those features they may accidentally break something.
But even aside from possible difference between versions; bugs in the game itself still have to be addressed on every platform. Even if they don’t bother testing the new version, they still have to at least push the update - which is still more work than zero work. This is why it is fairly common to see games that are under active development only have their beta version on Steam (or in some cases only Epic), even when they intend to launch on a bunch of platforms.
So for some games (certainly not all, but definitely some), patches come on Steam first and GOG at some point later. Maybe a day later, or a week later, or in some rare cases not at all. Similarly for DLC. And that definitely isn’t GOG’s fault. There isn’t really anything GOG can do about it. It’s just a side-effect of Steam being the far bigger platform.
As someone with no Linux experience, what’s wrong with that code?
It adds the executable permission (without which, things can’t be executed) to all the files in the game’s directory. You only need to be able to execute a few of those files, and there’s a dedicated permission to control what can and can’t be executed for a reason. Windows doesn’t have a direct equivalent, so setting it for everything gives the impression that they’re trying to make it behave like Windows rather than working with the OS.
I mean i assume thats just easier to deal with updates where a game has multiple exe files that may or may not change names. Assuming everything in the directory is assumed to be safe, is there any downside to applying it to everything, aside from opening up the possibility of a user accidentally trying to execute like a texture file or something which I assume just wouldnt work? I actually don’t know and im curious.
You’ve pretty much got it. It’s bad, but it’s not horrible. Trying to execute some random file such as a texture basically just doesn’t work… but only by luck. It’s possible, but unlikely that the data might look enough like an actual program to run and do something unpredictable.
I’m not aware of any major reasons why its a problem to make everything as executable (and I know that when I open an NTFS drive from linux, all the files are executable by default - because NTFS doesn’t have that flag). From my point of view I just think its sloppy. I figure it can’t be hard for GOG to just correctly identify which files are meant to be executable. For most games its just a single executable file - the same one that GOG’s script is launching. And presumably the files that developers provided GOG have the correct flags in the first place.
Anyway, not really a big deal. Like I said, I just think it’s a bit low-effort.
Yeah that’s fair, and im not defending the practice, it just made me think of some games that Ive seen that have multiple executables, usually with an inbuilt launcher that i have to bypass. Or when games used to come with a dx11 and dx12 executable. Personally i find that in itself super sloppy and annoying as well, but it makes a kind of lazy sense to just apply it to all the game files, in that its just one less thing to have to change if you make an alteration to the name of the executable file or add a new executable for whatever reason. Just one less possible failure point. But yeah I can see how its definitely not best practice.
An official Steam Deck mod would probably be nice. Heroic Launcher kind of works.
There’s nothing wrong with the business model of selling older games at affordable prices. This is about poor management. (Or deliberately bad management by a “CEO” who was hired to destroy GOG to remove a popular choice from us).
Thankfully if GOG goes down I don’t lose anything.
Now if Steam goes down, I lose my entire library
You have it backwards.
If GOG goes down, you actually lose what you own.
If Steam goes down, you lose your privileges.
Gabe Newell has promised that if Steam goes down you won’t lose your library, but we only have his word as assurance.
Gabe Newell is much more likely to go down before steam does. his words mean nothing for the future.
No doubt the corporate drones that take over after his death will shit all over his legacy.
It’s one of my biggest fears, but I guess there’s always piracy especially for old games.
As great as Gaben and Valve are his word doesn’t mean anything (it’s not a personal attack either, it’s just that it isn’t anything binding). Luckily if they fail to keep their promises (or legally cannot) then the crack community will step in. I’m pretty sure they cracked Steam DRM ages ago. I remember a friend using it for Left 4 Dead back in the day.
Do you have a source for this? People like to repeat this rumour but I’ve never found out where he promises anything like that.
There’s this, the original comment lost to time, but a link to an alleged direct quote from GabeN.
In addition to that forum archive, here’s a Steam support response via Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/18mzcn/i_asked_steam_support_what_happens_to_my_games_if/
Anything that uses steam apis and services won’t work without steam and steam offers a lot of that to game devs
But the APIs are public, so they can be reimplemented in open source. There just hasn’t been any reason for it since currently that would only be used for piracy (in fact some “cracked” games have a mockup of the steam API that just returns the expected things as if it had contacted the servers). But the moment steam goes away I give it a couple of weeks until there’s a GitHub implementing most of the basic stuff.
But the APIs are public, so they can be reimplemented in open source.
And have been since years: https://mr_goldberg.gitlab.io/goldberg_emulator/
If steam goes down I’m sailing the high seas from then on.
A lot of steam games dont have drm
You would lose only most of your library, not all of it
deleted by creator
If you can’t play the game without the steam client then it still has drm.
Plenty of games don’t rely on any Steamworks API at all. For the remaining goldberg_emulator exits.
But he’s not talking about those ones.
You can play the game without the steam client
I would lose some of my library, but I think most of it would still work.
If a game has multiplayer, it most likely has DRM
Terraria and Cuphead are games i know dont work because of that
Can you not connect by IP in Terraria? I had though I had multiplayer running without even starting steam at one point…
Because steam multiplayer is implemented into the game, you cant open the app if steam is not installed
I thought I had it running without starting steam before… That was pre-1.4 and the windows version though, so things may have changed. I know there used to be a wrapper that would start the game outside of steam, but that was ages ago.
I don’t think this is because of multiplayer though, as you can just not use steam services for multiplayer and connect directly to IPs. In my case trying to run without steam started causing crashes with windows forms, so steam linux runtime is probably being used for at least a few things.
Copying terraria to a windows VM (which was far more work that it needed to be) results in something similar, with a TypeInitializationException, so Steam is needed for what looks to be some social API, maybe for grabbing social links? It’s quite possible that there are more things, but I don’t think Terraria requires steam multiplayer services, especially as the GOG version runs without steam.
I don’t think that counts as DRM, but the end effect is similar: steam needs to be running. If steam ever dies, I’m certain a simple wrapper will be made to run Terraria and probably many similarly integrated games, but it is not ideal.
People talking about money kinda missing the point this is a culture issue. They need to sort themselves out clean house if people can’t be reasonable for their staff.
The launcher that they have is pretty rough. I downloaded it for Mac OS and it just wouldn’t run right. Kept closing down. If I could just download right from the website they’d have some money.
If they draw is drm free games why only allow purchase through a custom launcher like everything else?
If I could just download right from the Website
You can.
They do not make that obvious. I downloaded the launcher and when it didn’t work I bailed. I’ll check closer
I don’t use their launcher at all.
It’s kind of a convoluted process but you can definitely download every game you own through gog without it.
Same, they should just never have made a launcher.
Yeah galaxy is sadly a bit of a mess. Back when i was still running windows it broke its own update capabilities once or twice.
It also has a bad habit of keeping a zombie process running after you fully close it
Can you not download from the site on mac?
I’ll have to check. It seemed like downloads had to happen from the app.
As a result, no one on the team has the courage to express their opinion. Under Gołębiewski, GOG typically makes business decisions that may be profitable in the short term, but may not contribute to the platform’s long-term growth.
Why half ass things when your the good guy?
The publication added that CD Projekt cuts jobs at its subsidiary every two to three years, with annual staff turnover reaching around 30%.
As summed up by another former employee, “GOG has been acting well tactically from a financial perspective, but poorly strategically, and the current business model is likely running out of steam.”
So nothing burger? Other than a corpo being anti-worker which is not news…
What exactly is the distinction between acting tactically and strategically? This doesnt even make sense.
Pedantically, I believe “tactics” are small / short term and “strategics” are big / long term.
I really like GOG so it would be highly unfortunate to see them go under. I guess we really can’t have nice things in this day and age.
GOG is a side project of CD Project, the makers of The Witcher and Cyberpunk. They are massively wealthy. If GOG goes down, it’s because CD Project lets it happen, not because there is no other way.
Are they publicly traded?
I hope they stick around they are great for gaming. I need to buy off there more often.
This makes me sad. I wanna believe in gog. The last bastion of hope for gaming.
In what way? I know it’s great but I don’t know if I’d call it the last hope for all of gaming. It’s a good store front. Their application has better FOSS alternatives and there are other pretty okay ways to buy games too. I don’t follow them closely. Are they doing anything particular that warrants that description?
They’re like the only store that actually sells you the game and not a revokable license to a game
You never have bought a game even when buying it on physical media. You always purchase a license to the game.
That’s just wrong. They just sell you a license and provide a DRM free game. You are not supposed to continue playing the game if the publisher terminates your license. They just give you the ability to do it, but it has no legal value
I thought itch did that too
They do
Yeah I was aware of that. I don’t know if that constitutes the last hope for all gaming, but it’s definitely a positive. Other stores have a much better user experience, and until they rival stores like Steam in functionality and ease of use, actually owning your own game is just a very nice to have feature and nothing more. Of course, I wish all stores did that. I don’t want to have to resort to piracy if my steam library goes poof, but so far I haven’t had to, and piracy is still an ethical choice in that scenario.
My point isn’t that steam is better, but that GOG has a couple nice features and several downsides, and it is by no means changing or saving the industry. They have a long way to go, and I don’t think saving the industry is the end goal for them.
No, but saving the industry is their “hook”, if not explicitly stated as such. I know that every game I buy from them will be impossible to take away from me if I backed up the installers first.
I don’t know if that’s true anymore. There are games on there that require login into PSN after installing.
Are you sure? I haven’t played any of Sony’s games on GOG. From reviews, it looks like Horizon still sends telemetry if you’re connected to the internet, but I don’t believe it’s gotten the remaster update that mandates PSN. I could be out of the loop though. I do know that GOG caught flak for allowing Hitman 2016 on the store, which is technically playable from start to finish without an internet connection, but the connection to their server gates all sorts of extras, so the customers rebelled and got it removed.
I hope you’re paid well to spread this easily disproven lie.
https://support.gog.com/hc/en-us/articles/212632089-GOG-User-Agreement?product=gog
We give you and other GOG users the personal right (known legally as a ‘license’) to use GOG services and to download, access and/or stream (depending on the content) and use GOG content. This license is for your personal use. We can stop or suspend this license in some situations, which are explained later on.
This is just the license to download the game installer, not to install it.
Once you’ve downloaded the software they can’t revoke the license for that installer file.
Yes they can. They cannot stop you from installing the game, but once they revoke your license, it would be piracy.
GOG shills always twist reality to try to make it conform to the “you own you games” lie, but the truth is GOG is no different than Steam.
How do you use a Steam game after its license was revoked?
How do you use a Steam game after its license was revoked?
By default Steam is a mere download manager without any DRM. You can zip the game folder and back it up anywhere. Whether or not publishers go through the additional steps to enable one or more DRM solution is a different matter. My favorite Steam games have no DRM at all.
Same as GOG: piracy.
They can’t, actually, because they don’t hold the rights to that content, only to GOG and the installer. Once it’s installed their distribution and license rights end.
If the game you install has its own license from the rights holder that gets revoked then you’ll be in breach of that license, if anything.
How do you disprove that this “GOG content” are offline installer files that, as long as you keep them backed up, work indefinitely even if GOG revokes your license to download them again?
I don’t. However, using those files after GOG revokes your license would be piracy.
the reality of the situation is that these 2 things look exactly the same in 99% of circumstance and 100% of circumstances that consumers actually care about
You really need to look at what you’re buying. Whether it’s a download, a DVD, or damn floppy disk, you’re still just buying a license. A very revokable license. If it’s online, the publisher can cut you off.
GOG installer is offline:
https://x.com/GOGcom/status/1844752098145038435
A purchase of a digital product on GOG grants you its Offline Installers, which cannot be taken away from you.
GoG isn’t the publisher. Y’all don’t read the shit you agree to, and know fuck all about media distribution. You’ve never owned a video game, a movie, or even a book that isn’t in the public domain. You’ve only ever owned licenses for personal use, and those licenses have always been provisional and revokable. Always. Your ignorance is not change that.
Enhance your calm. I was merely pointing out that the game installers are offline for GOG, meaning there’s not a physical mechanism to cut you off. As you mentioned, if it’s online, then they can cut you off, which is true for Steam but not GOG.
And how does that work when they close down and servers that host the games can no longer be accessed to download your license free game?
Wheter you have a revokabke license or not, you still won’t ever be able to access the game…… how do people need this explained to them? And yet use this single reason like it matters lmfao.
GOG installer is offline
You download it immediately after purchase, and should archive it somewhere, same as everything else you purchase digitally
how does that work
…
When you buy a game on a CD or Cartidge, it’s up to you to make sure you continue to own it from then on. That is the same model as GoGs digital downloads. You own it, you make sure you still have it on hand for as long as you want to still have it on hand for.
You own the media but just have a license for the game. You have never owned a game the media has always given you a license to play the game.
When I buy a game from GOG, it comes with the presumption that I will download the installer in a timely manner and store a copy on my local storage device. Assuming I have good backup practices, that’s really the end of the story. I can build a 100 new computers and install the game I bought on each one. GOG went bankrupt ten years ago? That’s a shame, but my installer works just as well as when they were kicking.
When I “buy a game” on Steam, I technically get an installer, but Steam isn’t going to help me keep it. Those 100 new computers are going to download that installer a 100 times. And if the 51st install comes around and Steam isn’t around anymore? Or Steam decides not enough people play this game anymore and it no longer makes financial sense to host the installer? Well, at that point I guess I’ll just regret not buying the game on GOG.
how do people need this explained to them?
How do you need a simple concept like a backup explained to you? All while being smug…
GOG Seels DRM free games that you can download the installers and all necessary files. No matter what they do, once you’ve downloaded it, they can’t stop you from playing it.
Those are terminologies corporations care about. But, for real life use there is a difference between a product that can be remotely taken away and products that can’t. Otherwise could be argued there is no difference between a pirated copy of Red Dead Redemption 2 and a legit one, which there is once you try to play offline.
That’s only if you download the game and store it in a way that won’t degrade, when their servers are offline, you can’t download it anymore…
This is such a red herring reason, and I don’t know why people hold onto this like it matters, at all.
That’s true for pretty much every product you buy.
The difference is that Ikea isn’t going to take your shelf when they feel like it or if they run out of money. Neither is GOG. That’s why it matters.
I didn’t know IKEA made video games?
And why does that matter? When they go out of business you can’t download even if you do or don’t have a license.
That’s why it matters.
Because you now have a game that you don’t need a license that you still won’t be able to access or play? So how does that make a single fucking difference lmfao.
It’s like you’ve never heard of archival or how to keep data safe, protected, or backed up.
Also intentionally missing the valid point when compared to physical items just shoots yourself in the foot for any further arguments.
I didn’t know IKEA made video games?
They don’t, they make furniture. You clearly don’t understand metaphors.
When they go out of business you can’t download even if you do or don’t have a license.
If Ikea goes out of business, you can’t buy their products anymore and the ones you do have you need to protect and make sure they don’t degrade. Your argument is true for every single product, digital or physical.
The games from GOG don’t have any DRM so you can very easily make copies of the game and safely store them elsewhere, even on new computers.
Games that do have DRM lock you down to verify that you’re allowed to play their game, which severely limits how you can use your own product. If that game publisher or developer goes out if business than you can’t play the game that you already have, even if it’s kept “pristine”.
People who bought The Sims 4 couldn’t play their offline game because the DRM stopped them, meanwhile people didn’t buy the game were free to play it when they wanted. The legitimate buyers of the game were punished simply because of DRM.
when their servers are offline, you can’t download it anymore…
I have no idea what else you would be expecting?
That’s my point… it literally doesn’t matter that they can revoke you license or not, when the servers are down, you’re fucked regardless.
Hence why it’s a pointless argument to bring up…
What else do you think I meant here?
But you don’t need to download it again. Keep good backup practices and it’s eternal. If you lose it, that’s the same as losing a physical object you bought at a store. Or if you don’t maintain your backup like you would clean and maintain a physical object you bought, it’s your fault you lose it. I can buy a game from GOG right now and keep it and use it until the day I die, then my grandchildren can use it after that.
You obviously don’t even know how it works.
when the servers are down, you’re fucked regardless.
As long as you keep the files you don’t have to access their servers to play it again. That’s exactly the same as even physical media. It’s not like a company will send you a new DVD for free if you throw out the one you bought.
I’ve read through your various comments, and I’m not sure you see the difference here.
With other platforms such as Steam, you download the Steam program that acts as a single installer for every game on the platform. You have to be logged into a valid Steam account to download a game from their single installer. If you use a new computer, you have to log into Steam and download from Steam. On GoG, you download an installer per game. Those installers can be transferred to any device and download the games even if the computer has never logged into GoG or even connected to the internet. You can store all the installers on an external drive, which you can’t do for Steam.
If Steam eventually dies or your account is banned, you can never install those games again. If GoG eventually dies or your account is banned, you are correct that you can’t download new installers, but you can use any installer you have already downloaded.
If Steam dies or your account is banned, the game you already have downloaded may not even work anymore due to DRM (this is on a game-by-game basis). If GoG dies or your account is banned, your games are guaranteed to still run since they are not dependant on GoG DRM (with a small list of exceptions people aren’t happy about).
You may not care about any of this, but there’s a decent chunk of people who want to keep their games regardless of anything the purchasing company does.
Ummm… That’s the case for disc games too of only being able to retain possession once it’s shipped to you and you properly store it. Or any tangible good for that matter. I don’t what point you are trying to make.
That’s literally the point, it’s a useless argument since it doesn’t fucking matter lmfao.
That GOG downloaded installers can’t be forcibly deactivated or taken away? Your phrasing is confusing so I don’t think people are able to tell whether you think GOG installers are a good or bad thing, or acting like it is useless and provides no further benefit than DRM alternatives.
How can the installers access a file that no longer exists since the servers are shut down and the files can no longer be accessed…?
My phrasing is confusing since the point literally is fucking pointless, it’s moot, doesn’t matter since it can’t be accessed licensed or not.
Shit I really like GOG as it’s the only competition to steam
There’s also itch.io, which is great. It does have a lack of game selection, but we’re comparing it to GOG, so…
Yeah itch lacks the bigger titles GOG has been able to pull.
At the same time, GOG hasn’t been able to pull many, and Itch has much better indie coverage, including for the higher-end indies, due to its much smaller royalty fee. I’d say they’re pretty even overall, with Itch catering to Indies and GOG to old games.
GOG has been closer to offering the more mainstream indies and big studio titles that interest me. I guess itch library doesn’t really appeal as often to my tastes.
That’s completely fair. I personally really like the site because it feels like being part of a creative community, but that also makes the selection of games that are available more eclectic.
Shit I really like GOG as it’s the only competition to steam
There are plenty of competing PC game online stores, it’s just that they all suck monkey balls when you’re not using Windows. Microsoft is currently using their old monopolist playbook and release Blizzard games to the fucking Microsoft Store and Game Pass and not a single 3rd party store.
And don’t forget that the other publisher-owned storefronts like EA’s and Ubisoft’s are also still alive. They suck hard but they exist and apparently they do well enough to continue to be around.
Steam is the only PC games store that fights Microsoft’s Windows monopoly. GOG Galaxy has been written using the Qt framework. Making a Linux version of an existing Qt application is relatively easy (at least compared to a full port). Do that, integrate umu-Launcher for Windows games, bundle everything up and release GOG Galaxy on Flathub. Boom, done. But they don’t do that despite their massive pile of Witcher and Cyberpunk money.
So plenty of competition exists but if you happen to not be Windows-exclusive, everyone but Steam is bad.
I mean, the Epic Store exists. Well, not on Linux. And it’s missing a lot of features the other storefronts have.
Epic exists as an alternative to Steam in the same way that Russia is the world power opposing the US.
So, they’re both out to fuck everyone, and just playing for different teams?
Steam, for all of the good it did still normalized digital distribution of games. Its normal now that we dont own the games we play they exist on corporate servers, and can be rescinded at the drop of a corporate whim.
At least it has been sometime since the US invaded a neighbor for territorial expansion…
Easier to install puppet governments than try to integrate more angry people into the population.
Kelso from That 70’s Show: “BURN!”
The approved competitor to a monopoly is… *checks notes* a wannabe monopoly that’s trying to buy their way into the position by providing less for the customer and instead bribing the publishers for exclusivity?
No, thanks. I would rather stick with the existing monopoly than reward Epic’s anticompetitive and anti-consumer bullshit.
Yes, I never said that they are good, just that they exist.
I guess, yeah. I will say, though: it feels morally wrong to acknowledge their existence as anything other than a anti-consumer cashgrab, and thus give them legitimacy as a competitor to Steam, GOG, and Itch.
Epic exists on Linux to the same degree gog does: heroic launcher.
Also, fuck Epic and the ass they rode in on.
I liked when they made Jill of a Jungle, Unreal, and One Must Fall 2097
Yeah, Epic Megagames were a part of my childhood, it’s sad to see them turn into another greedy coroporation.
Holy shit, a OMF mention?!?
fistbump
You just heard the lightning bolt, and now the theme song is pumping in yo head
Yes yes, bitch eating crackers and all that.
But can we maybe focus on what they actually are shit at (which is a lot) rather than manufacturing virtue for other companies?
I’m not sure which part of that guys comment suggests anything other other than “fuck epic,” but here’s a short and sweet list:
- Designing a service for their customers instead of relying on paid exclusivity to encourage social pressure or FOMO
- Halfway decent customer support
- Unreal Engine 5’s performance
- Keeping their old of games accessible
- Not scamming kids out of virtual money
Also, they
- Fucked over Unreal fans by dropping the new Unreal Tournament the moment Fortnite took off (this one is personal, I was looking forward to that)
- Fucked over people who bought Fortnite Save the World (the original paid PvE mode of the game) by dropping that the moment the Battle Royale mode took off (this is objectively worse than UT because people paid for this)
Edit: Also want to mention Timmy’s frequent trash talking of Linux on Twitter
Not nearly the same degree. GOG sells actual Linux games with no 3rd party software necessary to play them. The same cannot be said about EGS, one simply cannot launch an EGS game in an officially supported way.
For a very limited subset of games, they provide linux binaries. For the rest? You are up a creek and in the realm of “Figure it out”. Which… is generally the Heroic Launcher (or Lutris for a subset) which puts you in the same boat as Epic.
If you insist upon saying one store is more virtuous than the other… okay? I personally don’t like defending companies but you do you.
But for the vast majority of games? Epic and GoG are in the same category as basically everything but Steam. And both are in the exact same category regarding launchers and download services since they both heavily rely on the Heroic Launcher (which is awesome).
And, to be clear, neither should be applauded for Linux support.
Well, to be clearer. The folk behind the Heroic Launcher (and Lutris) SHOULD be applauded. And I think there is actually a very strong argument that store fronts should not be expected to build out entire social media ecosystems with attached updaters (what launchers basically are). But both Epic and GoG have decided to half ass that so they should be called out for not doing it “right”.
If you insist upon saying one store is more virtuous than the other… okay? I personally don’t like defending companies but you do you.
Could you please not put words into my mouth? Neither is “virtuous” and I am not defending them. Let’s stick to the facts instead. It’s clear that EGS is being actively hostile towards Linux, while GOG is merely negligent. EGS actively removed Linux support from previously supported games on at least one occasion (Rocket League).
You’re doing it again.
As a publisher: Yes, Epic stopped the Rocket League devs from continuing to build Linux binaries. To my knowledge, they have not disabled “support” for Proton in any of the anti-cheat solutions.
Similarly, the development branch of CD Projekt (the parent company of GoG), apparently had Linux binaries for The Witcher 2. They do not for The Witcher 3 or Cyberpunk.
Both companies decided it was not worth internally supporting Linux and instead rely on Proton/Wine to do it for them. Whether that is good for gaming is debatable, but both are “actively hostile towards Linux” in that regard.
If you do want to criticize the handling of Linux then I would suggest looking into the Unreal Engine marketplace (or whatever they call it now) being a complete shitshow for Linux developers. Which is ironic since the UE documentation is actually great for Linux devs. I cannot speak to the CDPR efforts with their modding SDKs since I haven’t opened one since The Witcher 1 (when it was either a hacked version of the NWN toolkit or an officially hacked version of the NWN toolkit).
But that is Epic and CDP not EGS and GoG.
GOG sells actual Linux games with no 3rd party software necessary to play them.
Ah yes, stand-alone binary installers that work only on a very tiny set of Linux versions because they rely on specific version of system libraries, sometimes contain distribution-specific hardcoded paths, and so on. I especially like those older Linux ports that exclusively target Nvidia drivers because why would anyone just have coded to the OpenGL standard back then…
We have Flatpak Runtimes and Steam Linux Runtimes since years. CD Project / GOG can’t even be bothered to pick these existing open source solutions.
Wdym I’m playing several games on arch through epic games since I got them for free
Too bad, I use Steam and it works wonderfully on Linux, but i don’t want it to be the only option.
i don’t want it to be the only option.
Neither do I but it is. GOG doesn’t support Linux. Heroic is a 3rd party community effort. Valve is currently the only company making financial investments into Linux gaming.
It does support Linux: it lets you download Linux installer for games that have a Linux port.
The lack of GOG Galaxy on Linux just means you have to manually manage your games.
It does support Linux: it lets you download Linux installer for games that have a Linux port.
GOG lets publishers upload various installers but GOG does nothing to support them, let alone offer something like Proton (which is open source, so they could take and integrate it for free).
No one needs to “offer” Proton. It’s available freely for anyone. I think some people think Proton is a Steam thing. It isn’t. Yeah, Valve did a lot of work on it, which is great, but it isn’t limited to them. Vlave has essentially unlimited resources, and I’m happy they spent some making improvements for WINE, but GOG does not have nearly the same resources. I wouldn’t expect them to put their effort into that. Valve only did because they were building hardware that they wanted to run Linux.
Valve only did because they were building hardware that they wanted to run Linux.
That was part of it clearly but I think more so they wanted an escape route as Microsoft enshittifies (further)
No one needs to “offer” Proton. It’s available freely for anyone.
And that’s how GOG does not support Linux: Paying customers need to figure it out on their own. They don’t even value their customers to a degree to take and integrate existing open source solutions.
Is proton entirely FOSS? I do know that they are built on wine, but now that I think about it, I am not sure.
On steam I can click install and run and most games windows and Linux just work without further effort. This makes gog worthless to me. I could just use wine I don’t know why I’d bother.
Many more companies than Valve are making financial investments into Linux gaming, including companies that own various Linux distributions (Red Hat, Canonical, etc.), CodeWeavers (who amongst other things have been contracted by Valve on a lot of Proton work) and to a lesser extent Humble Bundle.
GOG is the only big option if you want to own the games you purchase.
That’s not how copyright laws work anywhere. You don’t own anything, it’s just a license.
GoG Vault would disagree with you on that.
You can download the full installers and keep them, nobody can take them away or disable it remotely
How is that different from backing up the game folder on steam? In both cases it’s true that:
- You’re not doing anything illegal at the moment you do it
- You can use it to play the game on a different computer (as long as the game is DRM free which is not granted on either platform)
- The company (Valve/GOG) can’t remotely erase your copy
- If the company removes the license from you your backup is now technically illegal but it’s unlikely to be enforced
I fail to see how GOGs approach is any different, they still sell you a license and you’re backing up the installer in case the license gets removed and/or you’re forbidden from redownloading the game.
So you can just pop that folder on any computer and run it, without installing Steam and without a Steam account?
On most games yes, like I said before I’ve copied games from my computer to others to play in lan to convince friends to buy a game.
Then there are badly implemented games, where you need to either delete the steam library from the game folder or replace it with an open implementation.
And the rest are the ones that have DRM (which are not available on GOG anyways so they don’t matter for this discussion).
Actually, some games have DRM on steam and have a DRM free version on GOG. I even saw a game that had a DRM free epic and gog edition but the steam version had DRM. Might be a edge case, but still exists
What they mean is that technically you still are being granted a license to use it. The same was true for things like DVD movies. They’re technically correct, but missing the point.
GoG Vault would disagree with you on that.
They are free to disagree on laws but they are still bound by them.
You can download the full installers and keep them, nobody can take them away or disable it remotely
That’s true but if your license is revoked, you’re illegally in possession of the game assets.
That’s not how it works but hey, you do you
It 100% is how it works. Read that EULA next time you install one of those games via the installer you downloaded from gog.
Yeah & we still get to keep the installers, but hey I seriously do get your point
and?
It’s less clear than you say.
In principle the First-sale doctrine should apply but it has not caught up with reality yet.
In case of Steam.
With GOG I get an actual license key & terms that state my ownership.
With GOG I get an actual license key & terms that state my ownership.
No, the intellectual property is not transferred to you. You have no clue how copyright works.
I totally understand your point, but when people talk about “you own nothing” they don’t really mean you “own” the content on physical media, they mean it doesn’t have DRM that requires an online service. You’re technically correct, but your pedantry is making you miss the forest for the trees, basically.
but your pedantry is making you miss the forest for the trees, basically.
No. People here claim, that just because GOG cannot remote wipe your drive, people buying off GOG have a perpetual right to the games they’ve bought. But they don’t because that’s not how copyright works. If a game’s license is revoked, to keep playing the game is copyright violation.
Not only do so many people not grasp basic concepts of copyright, they claim Valve could take away all downloaded games. No, Valve cannot remote wipe my drive either. I can back up my Steam folder. Many games on Steam don’t have DRM at all. It’s opt-in and the actual Steam documentation outright says not to rely on Steam DRM because “it is easily removed by a motivated attacker.” If games rely on crap like Denuvo, 3rd party launchers, or invasive anti-cheat, the publishers are required to clearly state so on the store page in one of those orange boxes. Users can make an informed decision on a per-game basis even with Steam. And those games that ship crap like Denuvo aren’t on GOG in the first place.
So in the end GOG is a store that stretches the truth about game ownership in their marketing and despite all their Witcher and Cyberpunk money, they don’t care about users of platforms competing against Windows at all.
People here claim, that just because GOG cannot remote wipe your drive, people buying off GOG have a perpetual right to the games they’ve bought.
I think it’s pretty clear from context that they mean they have the ability to perpetually play the games because of the lack of DRM, not the right.
For most people that is a distinction without a difference.
For most people that is a distinction without a difference.
So what’s the difference to making a backup of my Steam folder? The games I play have no DRM either.
Nothing at all. Most people are not creating derivative works.
Yes, but the same is also true for Steam, so it’s a moot point.
No you don’t. You get the same license as you do on Steam, here’s the license btw https://support.gog.com/hc/en-us/articles/16034990432541-GOG-User-Agreement-effective-from-17-February-2024?product=gog :
We give you and other GOG users the personal right (known legally as a ‘license’) to use GOG services and to download, access and/or stream (depending on the content) and use GOG content. This license is for your personal use. We can stop or suspend this license in some situations, which are explained later on.
Which is very similar to Steam. In both cases you can keep the files you’ve downloaded on your machine, and on most cases you can copy those files to a different machine and keep playing it. GOG has better marketing on this regard, but they’re both very similar, neither enforces DRM nor forbids it entirely, although GOG does tend to be a bit stricter (but they still allow it) whereas steam is a bit looser but knowingly implemented a weak DRM and let’s you know in the game page if the game has any stronger form of DRM.
@Nibodhika @Evil_Shrubbery Stop Killing Games opened my eyes to the software “ownership” situation. In USA, apparently, noone ever owns any software. It’s always licenced. Even if on physical media. Quite bizarre.
In rest of world it varies but also sucks.
Yup, GOG just has good marketing department and lots of people fall for the DRM-free (but not really) games you own (but not really) campaign.
@Nibodhika @dbat Steam did the exact same thing when it was new when they would say “If Steam ever shuts down, we’ll give you perpetual licenses to the games in your game library.” Probably around the same time in their existence as GOG hyping DRM-free.
@Nibodhika It’s freaking evil, but in their defence, it’s more America’s evil than any one business. They have set about systematically reducing freedom for decades.
Who says you have to respect the laws? Just pirate if publishers mess with players
Just pirate
What’s the point of GOG then?
Morals
Morals
Nothing moral about a store that affirms Microsoft’s Windows monopoly.
People have different morals. It’s ok, it’s personal
Same reason we have Barnes and Nobles in the states. I like to browse before I hit zlibrary.
We have itch.io
Not everything is on GoG
I’m really happy with my experience with GOG, but they put a lot of effort into their Windows app and i ws pretty blunt with my feedback, it is pretty useless to me and I find it unhelpful. Heroic game launcher on Linux great and cost GOG $0.00. My thought is that they have been focusing on the wrong things, fundamentally I love their strong DRM stance and when I am travelling internationally,the games I bought off GOG work, unlike Steam😡😡😡😡. So if they have come to this realization, then nothing about these changes are disturbing as a customer, but sad to hear their employees taking the hit. 😢
strong DRM stance
They have allowed content protected by DRM into their store four times already, which is not surprising, given GOG is owned by CD Projekt Red who included DRM into their own DLC for Cyberpunk, including on GOG. That’s not “strong” in any sense of the word.
So in other words, they sell you the “feel good” anti-DRM narrative but quickly look the other way when it’s good for business. At that point, might as well purchase on Steam, where DRM is common but optional and Valve actually cares about making the games platform-agnostic, easy to backup, easy to share, etc.
EDIT: cool downvotes, doesn’t change the fact that GOG provides software protected by DRM on their “strongly anti-DRM platform”. There is no amount of downvotes in this world that can change this reality.
GOG is owned by CD Projekt Red who included DRM into their own DLC for Cyberpunk, including on GOG. That’s not “strong” in any sense of the word.
The DRM:
Get a fucking grip man 😅
Ah yes, so we went from “no DRM whatsoeverr!” to “there’s DRM but on a DLC I don’t care about!”
I see. Sound logic, great argument. Sounds like GOG is amazing then, they’re probably doing great with their current business model! No, wait…
I don’t follow the logic here. You said it yourself – GoG has only allowed DRM onto their platform four times. This is a violation of their anti-DRM policy but it still means like 99% of games on GoG have no DRM. It’s good to be principled about these things but I don’t see how this merits a knee-jerk response to run to Steam (a platform where 99% of games do have DRM and no guarantee other than an informal promise that they’ll do “something” to make their games available if Steam were to shut down).
anti-DRM policy
What anti-DRM policy? They included DRM into their own game, what kind of policy is that?
“I have a strict, non negotiable anti-beer policy! Except every weekend when I drink a 12 pack! And sometimes in social events! And at night to take the edge off! Sometimes on Wednesdays too!”
Not the person you’re replying to but there’s a big difference between: “We allow DRM, but don’t force it” to “We strongly oppose DRM, but allow it and even put it into our own games”. One is just business, the other makes you a hypocrite. And the issue with GOG is that they’re the latter.
See my other reply, they have allowed this much more than 4 times, and their own games have some form of DRM. Plus the amount of games with DRM on steam is much less than 99%, as a general rule if the game is on both platforms it has the same or equivalent DRM. So it’s essentially up to the publisher whether a game will have DRM or not, and because the vast majority of games have the same stance on DRM regardless of platform of purchase citing GOG stance against DRM becomes a moot point.
In short, games on GOG can have DRM and games on Steam can be DRM free. And as a general rule a game’s DRM stance will be the same regardless of store. So if you want to play game X and it’s available on both GOG and Steam, chances are pretty high that it is DRM-free on both, and if it has DRM on steam chances are pretty high it also has DRM on GOG.
Four times? How many times has Steam allowed it? Trying to follow your argument, TIA!
Did I ever claim Steam is a “strongly DRM free platform”? Did Steam ever sell itself as the non evil alternative due to a quoted “lack of DRM?”
If you’re trying to follow my argument, you’re not doing a good job.
If I understand this correctly, you value Steam’s honesty over a few instances in which GOG hypocritically violated their own DRM policy. That sucks, for sure, and GOG should be called out for it – but at the end of the day, the vast majority of games in my GOG library can be downloaded as offline installers that don’t need to contact a server, while the vast majority of the games I own on Steam can’t (barring, of course, circumventing Steam’s fairly weak DRM scheme, which is illegal).
the vast majority of the games I own on Steam can’t
People keep making this claim, but I don’t think this is true, I’ve made backups of lots of games, even played some in lan with some friends from just a single copy to convince them to buy the game. DRM has to be enabled by the developer, so the majority of games don’t do it, but also lots of games are badly coded and assume steam will be present so they fail to start without the steam library, but any game that’s released somewhere else besides steam probably will just work (and any game that’s only released on steam can’t be found anywhere else so they’re irrelevant).
you value Steam’s honesty
Both are multi-millionaire if not billionaire companies. There’s no way to attribute virtues like “honesty” to corporate entities.
But GOG is a much worse store than Steam, lacking features Steam had a decade ago and, most importantly, being loudly indifferent to how the games work on platforms other than Windows. Any gaming thread gets flooded by GOG fans talking about how we should support them anyway, because they’re great and anti-DRM… Except I’m telling you they aren’t, if their own games are at risk of being pirated they add DRM, if somebody wants to publish games protected by DRM on their platform they allow it. That’s not anti-DRM.
Steam’s DRM is disabled by default, and Valve is aware it’s trivially easy to bypass and said multiple times they don’t care. That’s just as “anti-DRM” as GOG if we go by their actions, rather than their marketing claims.
Don’t fall for marketing claims when they themselves are using DRM, it’s ridiculous.
deleted by creator
the games I bought off GOG work, unlike Steam
Which games from steam don’t work? I’ve never had any issues at all and I have traveled internationally for years while playing my whole library. I think that might be something specific to some game and that game wouldn’t be available on GOG anyways so it’s a moot point. In other words games work or don’t by their own stance on DRM, and I’m sorry to tell you but
I love their strong DRM stance
That’s a myth. They do allow DRM on their store, there’s a huge thread discussing which games have DRM: https://www.gog.com/forum/general/drm_on_gog_list_of_singleplayer_games_with_drm/page1
And that’s just focusing on SP, any MP game has DRM. So I’ll ask again, which game didn’t work on steam when traveling?
Note, if you actually look at that list you’ll see it’s a very loose interpretation of DRM. All of the games on that list work without any kind of phone-home security check, or unlock code, or anything like that. The list is stuff like “getting the DLC requires a third party account”. It’s definitely a list of things people don’t like, but whether it is or isn’t ‘DRM’ is not so clear cut.
GOG’s official position is that the store doesn’t allow DRM at all. They describe what they mean by DRM on that same page, and it sounds fairly reasonable; but its certainly understandable that some people would prefer a stricter set of rules.
Yeah, but if you follow that DRM definition almost no game on Steam has DRM either.
All of the games on that list work without any kind of phone-home security check, or unlock code, or anything like that.
You didn’t scroll down the linked forum post, did you?
-
DEFCON - Linux: Game contacts a key verification server as described here. Win and Mac have offline executables that skip the verification. But under Linux there is no DRM-free offline executable.
-
F.E.A.R. - arguably a bug that stays unfixed. Securom remnants weren’t removed and can cause the single player game not to start.
That’s pretty DRM-y.
-
Not the person you asked, but one game I had problems with on Steam that I did not on GOG was the OG Riven. It was still playable, but the various animations associated with pressing buttons and suchlike were completely broken. Very rare experience though and I have played many retro games on Steam.
Yeah a lot of retro games on GOG were fixed up with patches and stuff like that (often by GOG themselves) and sometimes regardless of any fixes applied, there are version disparities between the two platforms where usually the Steam versions is a slightly older release of an old no longer updated game compared to the GOG version though I’ve seen it happen the other way around, too.
Never heard of that game, but I can definitely believe it, old games are where GOG really shines. But that doesn’t seem like a DRM thing, more like the game is abandoned on Steam but not on GOG, sometimes GOG patches some old games with their own runtime, curiously if that is the problem running the steam version on linux using proton (and especially proton-GE) is also very likely to work.
any MP game has DRM
Well, that’s not true either. I hate this trend of developers only relying on the platform-provided servers for multiplayer, but you have to find a game with LAN. That limits your selection a lot, but I for sure played Star Wars: Episode I - Racer from GOG in LAN without talking to their servers at all.
Sure, but those also are DRM free on Steam, so my point remains.
I can’t say conclusively that every LAN game on GOG is DRM-free on Steam, but there are times where Steam’s DRM has caused annoyances for me when trying to play offline on Steam Deck that I would not run into with side loaded GOG games, which I detailed in another comment here.
You can’t also say conclusively that every LAN game on GOG is DRM-free on GOG either.
I read that other comment, that’s an issue with the specific game. I’ve played dozens of games without connection and not putting it on offline mode, if that specific game tries to phone home on login that game is wrong. I wished Steam would have a DRM-free tag to be able to differentiate them easily.
when I am travelling internationally,the games I bought off GOG work, unlike Steam😡😡😡😡.
You must be doing something very wrong. I bring my Steam Deck on travels and it always works.
I’ve traveled domestically and had the Steam Deck randomly decide that the games I preloaded need to be authenticated again because I didn’t explicitly put the device in “offline mode” before traveling. A GOG game sideloaded through Heroic would just work.
This year I was in three foreign countries with my Steam Deck. Once per flight, the other two by car. On the plane I activated airplane mode because duh but outside the plane airplane mode was always off.
By default Steam downloads shader caches off Valve’s servers. So if Steam saw before that an update is available and you didn’t download it, Steam wants to be online to download them. You can disable shader cache downloads in desktop mode but then the games have to compile the shaders by themselves which takes time computing resources, and in turn wastes battery power.
Also, pretty recently there was a bug in Steam that messed up authentication in general. It required me to log in twice (!) on every power on. The bug is now gone. It wasn’t a feature.
Yeah, this is the gist of the problem. When a PC is connected to airplane WiFi, but it is limited, Steam decides it is online, but some sort of validation fails and then no games will play until I get back to a full internet connection and reboot. I don’t even try anymore, hence my comment about GOG, and yes, I know some games on GOG have DRM, but most don’t and they don’t hide the fact. The Steam DRM bootlicking combined with GOG hatred because they were forced to sell a few games with DRM is so bizarre. Are Steam fan boys a thing? What a weird hill to fight for.
DRM is the heart of most technology pain for paying customers since it’s inception. For pirates, the experience is much better since the DRM is removed.
Nope, this is something different. I booted up Metaphor: ReFantazio, and it just about made it to the main menu before telling me I needed to be in offline mode, but you can’t explicitly put the device in offline mode if you don’t have an internet connection, funny enough. Fortunately I was on an Amtrak with Wi-Fi, but I shouldn’t have needed to do that. As far as I can tell, the reason I needed to authenticate the game again is because the Deck ran a “validating install” step on boot, but I have no idea when that step is going to happen, and once again, I shouldn’t have to plan ahead for being offline.
I booted up Metaphor: ReFantazio, and it just about made it to the main menu before telling me I needed to be in offline mode
Sounds like a game bug.
but you can’t explicitly put the device in offline mode if you don’t have an internet connection, funny enough
“…” button --> Airplane mode.
the reason I needed to authenticate the game again is because the Deck ran a “validating install” step on boot, but I have no idea when that step is going to happen
When you do something to bork the game data. It’s either user error or a bug but definitively not regular behaviour.
It’s not a game bug; that’s Steam’s DRM.
Airplane mode is not offline mode. I found that out explicitly this year due to how Ubisoft’s launcher interacts with playing offline in Prince of Persia: The Lost Crown. Offline mode is found from the Internet menu in the Steam Deck interface and is very much not the same thing as just not having an internet connection, as much as that would make sense.
I didn’t break any game data. This is an OS level feature, and it just does it sometimes on boot. I’m glad you’ve never been inconvenienced by these things yourself, but this is the intended functionality.
It’s not a game bug; that’s Steam’s DRM.
Funny how you got hit by that on an domestic train trip and I traveled abroad several times and not got that weird behaviour even once. I simply never use offline mode. On the plane I was in airplane mode and when not on the plane I was on hotel wifi, personal phone hotspot, or just not connected to any wifi. Steam also never just out of the blue validated my game data. Must be a problem on your end.
I didn’t even know they had a client. I do everything via their website.
