hi,
pretty much the subject… I am trying to choose my next laptop and I am tempted to buy a framework 13 AMD. I saw this post from one year ago : https://www.phoronix.com/review/framework-13-amd
and while the review is impressive, comments are not. how things have evolved since then? any experience?
EDIT: you convinced me, I just ordered mine. Thanks for the incredible answers !
NEW EDIT: I use arch (btw), and Gnome. For the answers, I do not think this will pose a problem but… what do you think?
(and yes, I ordered mine before reading last comment of paequ2 who doesn’t like it… for reasonable reasons, maybe. I hope I will have more luck ;) )
I just bought one a couple of months ago. It’s my daily driver. My work issued laptop sits on my desk, and I carry my framework around. If you’re a Linux guy, fedora runs fantastic on it - everything works, couldn’t be easier. Battery life could be better, but it’s fine. Trackpad is great, I heard some bitchin about it, but I don’t get that hate. Some complaints about the hinges and how they bounce. Again, unfounded complaints in my opinion. The hinges are stiffer to open/close than I expected, but they are fine (just a little different feeling). New webcam is great for a laptop webcam. New screen is nice - but let’s be honest, not much touches an apple screen. Sound is ok, nothing special. The case is fantastic-people (engineers and nerds) drool over it. The swappable ports are awesome, that alone makes the laptop imo. But the real star is the serviceability of it. Five screws and the whole thing comes apart. Everything can be replaced and upgraded. They even give you the screwdriver you need to take it apart. Bios updates work with fwupdate in Linux and they update regularly. Keyboard feels good. It stays cool and fans don’t go crazy.
It’s expensive. But I love mine. But I do plan on keeping it and upgrading forever - or at least until I smash it accidentally, so maybe it wasn’t expensive.
The 13 doesn’t have a gpu. It’s capable, but if you want to game on it, look at the 16. If you have specific questions I’d be happy to answer or post a vid/pic or something.
I read through those comments - there’s actually more complaints than those. Those weren’t that bad.
They updated the fan curves recently, mine runs fine. Fans aren’t silent when humming along, but normal use they aren’t even spinning.
Sleep is always a bitch on Linux. It doesn’t have great sleep life. I just shut mine down at the end of the day, and close the lid during the day.
I believe they fixed the amd graphics issues. I should have noted that I have a core ultra chip. I wish I had gotten the amd chip - but guess what - no biggie, I can upgrade later!
There was a complaint about the windows key. I will admit that I ordered the Linux keyboard and it pissed me off that I got a keyboard with a windows key. But I didn’t make a stink, I just deal with it.
There was fingerprint reader complaints. Mine just worked. Dunno what that was about.
My vote is a firm “buy a framework” and get a fun color. People will be jealous.
The linux keyboard has a Windows key?? What’s special about it then, that makes it a linux keyboard and not a windows one?
It’s not a “Linux” keyboard per se. It’s the same keyboard - it’s just one has a superkey symbol instead of a windows key symbol printed on it. They screwed up on my order and sent me a keyboard with a windows key on it. It’s a non issue, and I didn’t say anything - I’m sure they would have sent me the other keyboard if I bitched.
Ah, I misunderstood then, I thought the linux option still had a win key on it and that it was different in some other way. Thanks for clarifying
They (at least KDE) calls it the “meta” key. Which I kind of like.
I’m sporting a Framework 16 since a few months and had some battery problems at first. Due to work load, I couldn’t really get into the problem and something I changed or updated resolved it.
But I sent a mail to framework support at that time and the answer was just awesome.
Not just some typical 1st level response to update or restart, but real technical questions and obvious interest in my problem.
They even sounded a bit sad, that I couldn’t really tell them anything, because the issue resolved without me being able to pinpoint it.On that note, I also have to say, that Tuxedo support was really good.
My Pulse 15 battery was starting to get a belly, and they sent me a new one without much questions - and no pay.
Now, after like 4-5 years, I have my old Pulse to my nephew and saw that the CMOS battery is dead. Again they just sent me a new one.Some companies really deserve to get recommended.
YES! Big yes. I have one as well. Very pleased with it. Be very sure you pick the new 2.8k display version. So either pick 7640U - 2.8K Display or 7840U - 2.8K Display. Which works great for Linux, WITHOUT the need of fractional scaling.
Also be sure to pick the correct + right amount of expansion cards for your needs. 1 USB-C will be used for charging, so just saying.
Be very sure you pick the new 2.8k display version.
Why? I mean why is this so important?
Multiple good reasons actually:
- 2.8k version, comes with a great 2.8k display. A very high quality screen, high DPI (can be set exactly to factor 2x DPI scaling, so no fraction scaling).
- The new screen also have improved brightness (higher brightness)
- The 2.8k version despite the name, also has bigger battery of 61Wh compared to the 55Wh
- You will also get the 2nd generation webcam module, which not only gives better image during day light, but also in low light conditions
Then if you installed your distro of choice, be sure to install power-profiles-daemon for improved battery life. So the chip goes to a lower power state. More info: https://knowledgebase.frame.work/en_us/optimizing-ubuntu-battery-life-Sye_48Lg3
Apart from that, everything else should just work fine out of the box under any modern Linux distro most likely. The only downside I had with my Framework 13 laptop is the sound quality, because the speakers are down firing. You might like that or not. But you can definitely live with it.
Hmmm… I’ve been using Bazzite on my FW16 and it’s been running great. They have a distro image specifically built for Framework, and it’s been great in terms of power management.
I wonder if that stuff is covered in the Bazzite FW installation? Anyone know? I guess I can check…
is ppd better than tlp for amd? because I still use tlp for all my devices (intel) and it works really well
I’ve been stuck deciding between getting the 2.8k screen and upgrading to the larger 16 laptop. I stopped using my desktop last year entirely and so now I’m trying to figure out whether I should go with the larger laptop since it’s the only thing I use now.
I personally like the 13 inch format laptop, since I use it as a laptop.
I have a Framework 13 AMD running Linux Mint. It works great and I love it. Modular IO ports are super nifty.
Here are the downsides as I see them:
- Price
- No touch screen
- No wifi 7
I expect 2&3 will come in the future and I can upgrade! The fact that I can upgrade rather than throw it away in the future offsets 1.
Can you not use an M.2 wifi card? Or do wifi 7 cards not exist yet?
According to Framework support, there are no supported models as of yet.
I’m super picky with laptops and have a bunch. Thinkpads, Macbooks… Framework 13 AMD is my daily driver that I prefer over all of those. It runs brilliantly with NixOS. I would buy it again in a heartbeat.
Hey, funny that you mentioned the Thinkpad. I’m between getting a Thinkpad and the Framework 13. Would you perhaps share things that for your personal preference were downsides in the Thinkpad?
My T14 is a great machine. The keyboard is excellent, and its Linux support it great, too. However the screen is pretty bad and has a bad ratio for coding, it always looks dirty because its black shell shows all the oil from your fingerprints. If something breaks out of warranty, you’re pretty much SOL. Whereas with the Framework, I can upgrade and fix any component, up to and including the mainboard/CPU.
I have had that laptop a couple weeks and have been loving it. On fedora, everything pretty much just works flawlessly with no effort. I had a small issue figuring out how to turn off secure boot at first (f2 at boot time I think?) because that menu was separate from the rest of bios.
Other than the speaker not being great (not surprising) and the battery life being meh, it’s a very impressive machine. Mac laptops for me have always been the gold standard for smooth operation but I despise apple, so when I got this machine and it felt mostly like the smoothness of a MacBook pro with the freedom of Linux, I was super stoked about this laptop. It feels very snappy and the keyboard and touchpad are great.
I can speak to longevity - I have a gen 1, batch 2 (humble brag?) - and absolutely love it. Got me to switch over to linux, and the quality is there. Minor gripe about the trackpad sticking intermittently, and had to have the hinges replaced (both known issues, resolved). 10/10 great laptop
Minor gripe about the trackpad sticking intermittently
Aaaah!!! It’s not just me! I used a track pad on another computer and realized the Framework’s stickiness wasn’t just in my head!
Oh dude no, it’s a headache! I wrote to them once and they said it was an issue with the balance plate/sensor.
Apparently the quick fix is to click the bottom center of the trackpad 5x, then test it (I do so by clicking top corners). I find it hit and miss haha. Going inside, you can adjust the placement of that plate, but I never found that useful.
Did you notice if it seemed to improve a bit with time?
Did you notice if it seemed to improve a bit with time?
Mmm… no. I just more violently drag across the trackpad until it works and then resume what I was doing. 😅
So I have a Framework 13 AMD with Mint. Framework on older firmware isn’t the best, but with Mint 22 and by extension 24.04 it’s fine.
Got mine back in December and had no issues with the installation process. Games play fine though the fan goes to 100% after a bit. But with power profile in 22.1 it can quiet the machine down.
Other than that and the occasional hiccup. Compared to other laptops it’s the best machine I’ve used. So far no issues with only a few times of opening the terminal to fix minor issues.
I recently picked up a Framework 16 (AMD with GPU to replace an aging gaming laptop used for travel) and love it. Linux (OpenSUSE Tumbleweed) works wonderful. Thinking about picking up the 13 when I need to replace my other laptop when it’s time for that.
I currently own a Framework 13… and… after daily driving it for a year, I decided I don’t like it.
The deal beaker for me is the high dpi display. Linux just isn’t 100% compatible with hpi displays. I’m tired of my apps either having blurry fonts or tiny text. Ironic because hi dpi displays are supposed to look better.
With Framework, you’ll be pushed into using Fedora (it doesn’t solve all the scaling issues) or pushed to stop using apps you like because they’re using older GTK (some times there are no alternatives). You’ll also have to dive into debugging scaling issues.
I just switched back to my Dell XPS 13 9310 FHD and it was a breath of fresh air having everything just work. Any distro, any apps, no scaling debugging, text is readable and crisp, app UI elements look properly sized.
I only ever switched out the modular ports once, but honestly it would have been better to buy a dongle instead because that would work on any computer.
Oh, and I tried the higher resolution screen. It didn’t fix the scaling issues.
Oh, and, I actually had a display fail on me! After like 8 months, half the display went black. Thankfully, they were nice enough to send me a free replacement, but it definitely left me feeling like the Framework isn’t that sturdy or durable.
The shell also dents easily. I dropped a small music player from desk height onto the top lid and it left a small dent. (I have like 3 dents on the lid.)
Repairability is the one feature that the Framework beats everyone else on, but to me the cons outweigh the pros.
Framework 16 with the same display and linux mint user.
Pushed towards fedora? What? I also have no issues whatsoever with the screen or igpu of amd, so i wonder what you were using there and with what chipset.
Ive been daily driving mine for nearly a year now ( amd chipset and igpu) and none of those issues at all…Here’s a screenshot I just took from my Framework 13. Notice how some of the text is clear, but the entire menu to the right is blurry.
Common “fixes” are “move to Fedora” or “just enable some experimental flag in some random config”. This all misses the point though: I don’t want to have to do any of that. I just want a system that works with the most amount of apps.
Of course, it depends on what you specifically value. For me, I value broader software compatibility over slightly neater pixels. Some people might like it the other way around. That’s fine, but it’s something important to know.
I have a linux desktop with dual 4K screens and I don’t have problems with high DPI? The only problems I’ve come across is with Wine which is easly fixed within the winecfg.
I’m on OpenSuSE, using KDE in X11. I DID have scaling problems with Wayland which I avoid until it is fit for daily use.
Of course 4k is 4 times 1080p (or twice in X and Y dimensions) so maybe it’s much easier to scale to? 2K on the Framework is an odd resolution so maybe scaling would be more troublesome? 1080p to 1440p would be 1.3x scaling.
I don’t have problems with high DPI … only problems I’ve come across is … I DID have scaling problems with Wayland
This is exactly my point. You did have problems with high DPI. You had to fix some random config and avoid Wayland.
I don’t want to deal with this. I want to be able to use whatever software I want and have it work with minimal or no extra “fixing”. I value this over slightly neater pixels.
Then you shouldnt have picked wayland, period. There is a reason its still experimental. And in general, hearing you talk, im not sure linux is your thing in general. Even in linux mint i have to poke in cli once in a while…
EDIT: as i mentioned below,i just gave it another go as i recently upgraded linux mint. Keyboard layout was stuck to us so altgr didnt work. Teams window could also not be double clicked to maximize and remote desktop via remmina was acting odd, like my mouse had shifted to the right. Desktop wallpaper was also shifted. Like i said, experimental on some systems ( in this case linux mint ) :)
Wayland hasn’t been experimental for a while. Both KDE Plasma and GNOME have defaulted to Wayland for a while now indicating it’s ready to be used. And in fact, scaling works better on Wayland than on X11 but I suppose ymmv.
I know a few distros have switched, and i support it 1000%!
I know ive had a few glitches in linux mint which suggests they need to fix some stuff with cinnamon in wayland still ( and a few other apps ), hence my stance towards wayland atm. I love every piece of it but imma wait a liiiitle longer. The reason i think op’s issues came from either wayland or fedora because on debian-based distros ive had no issues on my framework 16, nor on the framework 13’s that are at the office ( ubuntu, linux mint, windows )Edit: just gave it another go as i recently upgraded linux mint. Keyboard layout was stuck to us so altgr didnt work. Teams window could also not be double clicked to maximize and remote desktop via remmina was acting odd, like my mouse had shifted to the right. Desktop wallpaper was also shifted. Like i said, experimental on some systems :)
Ok but you’re talking about Cinnamon. Cinnamon’s Wayland support is experimental sure, but that doesn’t mean Wayland itself is. I mentioned KDE Plasma and GNOME because they are the ones using Wayland for the longest now and have the best support for it and there it works better than X11.
You are correct. Its just that wayland is not as cut and dry of “everyone should switch to wayland, it works 100%” because thats not true.
Ye, my comment should have been “wayland support is experimental on some distros” and not “wayland is experimental” to be more correct but hey, if people could stop shouting at me to switch to wayland because it just works, id be happy.
Wayland is not experimental.
I had the same display failure, but 4 times in about 9 months. It made me pretty done with the whole thing. I only got the laptop back from the repair centre 2 or so weeks ago but I have no faith the issue is properly fixed now. Let’s see how it turns out, if it happens again I’m going to throw this thing out of the window.
This was my failure.
Yup, that’s the exact same problem I had. And I heard more stories of people having this problem. It’s bad…
The comments didn’t seem bad to me. Some people were complaining about an HP laptop’s power efficiency, but the framework’s is fine. Also, the intel ones have noisier fans, but the amd is perfectly quiet in daily use. I have two real complaints with mine: while the power draw is low in use, it uses idle sleep, so it doesn’t last that long asleep (longer than awake, so a few days to a week). You can of course power it off for longer term stuff, and boot times aren’t bad so that really isn’t a huge issue for me. The other one was a bit of a pain until I found the solution. All of the integrated amd GPUs from that gen have a problem on linux where they randomly get buggy and the whole ui drops to like 2 fps. It is resolved with a kernel parameter (sounds complicated but takes 5 min and a reboot. I will edit this with the steps when I get to my laptop). The frameworks generally improve over time. I wouldn’t get a 16 yet, but my brother and I both got 13 amds several months ago and are very happy with them.
Edit: Nearly forgot, it came with an “AMD” (mediatek) wifi card. I replaced it with an ax210 as soon as I got it and would recommend you do the same. Amd requires laptop manufacturers to put the amd card in but it kinda sucks IMO.
Yes, of course. Check for a refurb on sale though from the official store. No sense in paying full price for a 2 year old reference.
i have the intel one, i love it.
it matches with my definition of laptop, portable, 2k screen, the battery lasts a lot and a bit touchpad.
i have kde 6.x so i also have TouchPad gestures.
Ooh I didn’t know that KDE has touchpad gesture support now, I’ll need to give that a go next time I try linux
So does Cinnamon, and I think GNOME as well. They’re configurable, too!
I bought one last summer and the only problems I’ve had were some display issues which were solved by adding kernel parameters to disable all of the amdgpu power management (which as far as I can tell doesn’t even increase power usage noticeably). Other than that it has been basically perfect and way better than any other laptop I’ve had. I wish it had real suspend, but that’s just not possible on modern CPUs so that’s not Framework’s fault
I’ve seen an S3 option in Smokeless_UMAF, so maybe you can enable real suspend, but I haven’t tried on my Framework 13 AMD.
I’ve been using a framework since the first edition they’ve released and it worked great. Theyve only gotten better since.
Have had one for about three weeks no (13" and), and it’s fabulous. Habent had any issues. Running fedora 41. I love it.
Describes my experience exactly! I’m liking Fedora
