Is that really what we’re debating? We all know it isn’t.
What’s important is can they get away with it before losing the support of those propping them up.
When the US and their buddies bombed the fuck out of Iraq and Afghanistan, and we all gathered around to watch the display of “shock and awe” did we bother to find out what they were bombing? Or did we just just go “take that, Taliban and Al-Qaida”?
Anything Israel are doing has been done before by their allies. They know it’s shady as fuck, but also know they got away with it too.
When the war on Iraq and Afghanistan started, I stood with my children, one in a stroller outside of Dick Cheney 's house in silent protest. During the Vietnam war I made several trips to Washington DC to protest the war. There is no upside to war. What we can do today, is call, email your senator and congressman that you want the killing to stop, you want the USA to stop funding this genocide. Call every day, it only takes a few minutes and if everyone did that, we would have an impact.
We did actually. With embedded reporters and human rights activists keeping an eye on things to make sure. There aren’t a ton of headlines about the US bombing hospitals because we avoided doing that. Shocking, I know.
When the US and their buddies bombed the fuck out of Iraq and Afghanistan, and we all gathered around to watch the display of “shock and awe” did we bother to find out what they were bombing? Or did we just just go “take that, Taliban and Al-Qaida”?
I was a teenager when that happened and didn’t give a fuck about what’s going on in the world, honestly. I didn’t particularly care for 9/11 either tho, so there’s that.
So, what’re the chances you’ve got nothing to say about the cache of weapons & explosives they found under the hospital along with the fact that it was indeed a Hamas outpost?
???
After all you’re educated enough on the subject that you’re aware it’d been suspected as a Hamas outpost for years, yes?
???
Wonder how many people you’ve personally lied to that’ve seen through the manipulation and propaganda.
And to save you the trouble of responding, fake news, planted goods, paid actors - pick one and go fuck myself. Got it.
So what have the israelis actually found??
What I saw was a handful of weapons and a laptop. Not some headquarters
Very unconvinced so far. But the fog of war and disinformation is in full swing
They release proof of the hostages being taken there directly after the attack.
It looks as if Hamas sensed the attack coming and pulled out before the IDF arrived
All the doctors there claiming there never was any Hamas there are kind of full of shit - if people with a meat cleaver walking the hallways having people with bags on their heads in tow is normal there I’m not sure what to think anymore…
It would be completely normal to take injured hostages/prisoners to a hospital, and keep them under guard. In fact it’s the required action in international law.
So no the presence of a couple bodies in the morgue and a few guys with AKs doesn’t prove shit.
You literally chose the most biased source to get your information from and are surprised when all they find are “a handful of weapons and a laptop.”
Yeah bud, they found a lot more then that, and no the people who committed the biggest Jewish genocide since the holocaust PROBABY weren’t thinking of required action in international law
You are 100% the type of intellectual to think that silence or eventual banal agreement toward you is genuine and not a placation to avoid someone who never learned how to be wrong.
Did you really just compare 1400 deaths to the Holocaust? What about the 10,000 Gazans? Are they not human enough for you?
And, no. Even CNN is running articles saying there needs to be more evidence.
Since launching its operation at the hospital on November 15, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) have shown images of a tunnel shaft and military equipment, but have yet to show conclusive proof of the large-scale command and control center it alleges is there.
-CNN
Senior U.S. officials said Friday that they remained confident that Hamas and Palestinian militants had been operating under the complex of Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, even as the Israeli military has struggled to produce proof to back its assertion that Hamas was using the hospital and its patients as human shields.
-New York Times
And I just went to go find those. I’ve been looking directly at the videos Israel released. Which are ridiculous on their face.
Yeah I did because it was the truth, and there’s no need to resort to whataboutism on the Israel/palastiniane crisis of all things. Yes I think 10,000 gazan deaths is awful, to try to just compare the situation based on numbers alone is just another manipulation, that would really only work on children. So you’re essentially a bully who tells himself it’s for a good cause.
That type of wording is incredibly common with publications trying to keep a poise of neutrality, as it is true that more evidence would clarify the situation. They aren’t denying the proof, they’re simply saying more will be needed, as any neutral publication would. Here’s a much more relavant snippet,
“The White House has backed Israel’s claims, saying that Hamas was storing weapons and operating a command node from Al-Shifa, citing US intelligence.”
My bias is trusting telescopes about 100x the strength of hubble pointed back at the earth’s surface. I think it’s a pretty fair bias but I guess we’ll see, I doubt this is a repeat of" guaranteed nuclear weapons" but obviously there’s potential.
Everyone is awful in the I/P crisis, an objective observer with the full backgroun will always, always side with Israel. The plight of the modern palastinian child is literally the only objectionable part of this and Hamas will continue to use this until they are replaced with another religious dictatorship.
Because with friends like you, eternally echoing the idea of their complete innocence, there’s about a 0% chance palestine is getting any less fueled by holy war anytime soon.
So the Palestinians are just numbers to you. Great. Thanks for the confirmation.
The last time the world took the White House’s word on intelligence without seeing the proof, we ended up with a 20 year hangover. You don’t get to handwave war crimes. You either have the evidence or you don’t. And before you say they need time to explore the tunnels, this is what robots are for. They even give a convenient video feed and if they get blown up then oh well, it was a robot. The entire assertion that they need time for soldier safety is bullshit.
Objective observers don’t accept war crimes without immediate mitigating evidence. Make believe graphics and maintenance tunnel hatches aren’t it. Neither is common middle eastern security guard equipment.
Also, you’ll notice I’ve never said Hamas was innocent. But only one side in this war is actively committing genocide.
There’s not a lot to discuss really…both sides are utterly evil. One side used women and babies as a shield, the other side pulled the trigger.
Both actions are indefensible and pure evil.
While this is technically correct on the surface, it doesn’t really tell the whole story imo.
Israel is a nuclear power that has the ability (and clearly the willingness) to eradicate Palestinians from its territory. Hamas is a guerilla militant group. Yes they’re both evil, but more practically, only one has the ability to end this conflict, and it’s Israel.
The way you phrase it poses an impossible dilemma for Palestinian resistance. Non-violent resistance is outlawed and slaughtered (anti-BDS law, massacre of the Great March of Return, assassinations of peace activists, international smear campaigns, etc.). Violent resistance is impossible on equal standards as Israel maintains air superiority over occupied Palestine - separate infrastructure would be bombed. So we have a ghettoized population, under siege, under blockade, under air monitoring. What option is left for them? Hidden military infrastructure, tunnels, arms smuggling - and this all gets immediately condemned.
We try to hold these populations to the standards of international law - but morally, the abstraction starts to break down. It’s easy for a country like the U.S. to abide by some of these standards on the surface - we can have exposed military infrastructure, because we have SAM sites, we have intercontinental ballistic missiles, first-class fighter jets, etc. We’ve heard plenty about the perspectives that purport to justify the Israeli/U.S. offensive, that seem on the surface to make our military efforts legitimate. But (from the media at least) we rarely hear about the narratives in support of the opposing side - 75 years of ethnic cleansing, land theft, crushing military occupation, siege, perfidy, random massacres and apartheid. They have a legitimate cause and grievances. So we have to actually consider what avenues of recourse are even available to them to pursue that cause. Otherwise we’re essentially just telling them to “quiet down and die”. On the broader scale, it’s like saying, it’s forbidden to punch while you’re lying on the ground, while you tackle somebody and beat them to death.
That being said, of course certain things are both war crimes and not essential to resistance - i.e., killing unarmed civilians - to whatever extent Hamas militants actually did engage in this (we know they killed some, and we know the IDF killed some as well - as well as the 13-20k+ civilians Israel has killed at this point).
And this is not to give credence to Israeli claims of repurposing, either. The standard under international law is to prove that each individual peace of infrastructure is actively being used for military purposes, and that its strategic value outweighs the casualties from shelling it, and Israel has not been meeting that standard overall by any metric.
What option is left for them?
The only viable option I see that doesn’t result in total loss: return the hostages, lay down arms, sue for peace, get the best terms available.
That’s not the question.
Hamas should be operating out of a Palestinian military base.
(/s and if you’re not sure why please do look it up)
i used to support 🇵🇸 then they paraded innocent cadavers through their streets. Even i a communist have my limits
But bombing is always criminal. IDF are cowards to not storm in with swords shields
You used to support (Palestine) but then the (entire 5M current population of Palestinian) paraded innocent cadavers through their streets?
The commenter is literally who the tweet is referring to, lol
IDF are cowards to not storm in with swords shields
Lol?
Nah. We got several floors below this one, miss. You must be new here. Next floor?
Are those the floors the terrorists were hanging out or were those the floors they found the hostage bodies on?
Can’t keep track these days.
Whatever fits their current narrative.
It’s sort of getting debated because it was used as the place where hostages where kept and where Hamas militia were operating from. But I guess that wasn’t significant enough to raise eyebrows.
Sanity keeps falling out of the Overton window like it’s an oligarch visiting the Kreml.
On the false preposition that an air duct is hiding Hamas.
You think it’s the bottom now? Just wait 72 hours…
Aids, bombs and petrol. Nah I actually hope it doesn’t go there but I can totally see people choosing to be assholes while having the time of their lives. Absolutely not cool but hey man if earth was a television channel for the aliens, ahem, we’d probably be pretty far out in the shit sticks
If you kill the babies who tf is going to continue the fighting over this worthless desert for another century?? SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!
It’s not worthless, there’s 500 million dollars worth of gas north of Gaza that Israel wants to secure. They’re already stealing it and have been for years. And the 75 year long occupation must end of course.
Let’s set it on fire and put it on YouTube so no one can have it and everyone is pissed!! Truck yeah!
$500mm is a fraction of what it costs to secure it. That just cannot be it.
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No credible evidence has been presented to show that was the case.
That “tunnel” opening looked a lot like a manhole/drainage, too.
Anybody else starting to think Israel has probably bombed its hostage victims?
oh, i’m sure it can go lower. just give it time
Have they tried not genociding?
Ok yes but Israel is invading so it’s ok right
