• PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    “Well organized” doesnt mean legitimate. The referendum was organized without the consent of the legitimate government of Ukraine, was rightfully boycotted by Ukrainians, was scoped beyond the occupied areas and included non residents shipped in from russia.

    • abraxas@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      And let’s not forget the polling. Over 94% voter turnout (or an illicit vote) and 98% voting for annexation? You can’t even get 80% of people to vote for “don’t shoot yourself in the face” and we’re supposed to believe the annexation vote was near-unanimous?

      The propagandists really should’ve made up a number closer to 60% with 85% turnout, enough that a majority of the population could be said to have voted for annexation, while still being believable.

    • knfrmity@lemmygrad.ml
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      1 year ago

      Then please tell me how a region under genocidal siege from the very state it is internationally recognized to be a part of should legitimately break away and establish its own sovereignty.

      • PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Ukraine was, and remains, at war with separatist factions fomented by Russia. If Russia didn’t want a war in Donbas, they shouldn’t have started a war there

        • knfrmity@lemmygrad.ml
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          1 year ago

          Russia started a war in 2014?

          Whether or not the separatist faction is fomented by a foreign power, what gives Ukraine the right to shell them for nearly a decade on end, make their language and culture illegal, and exclude them from the public sphere? In early 2022 Ukraine was preparing for military action on Donbas, to essentially remove all remaining dissenters.

          I think Ukraine, under direction of its NATO puppeteers, has done a great job of fomenting separatism in culturally Russian minorities present in Ukraine all on their own.

          • PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Russia started a war in 2014?

            Yes. Russia invaded and annexed Crimea which is a part of ukraine. It also provided arms and boots on the ground to separatist movements in the Donbas

            Whether or not the separatist faction is fomented by a foreign power, what gives Ukraine the right to shell them for nearly a decade

            They are a hostile force occupying Ukrainian land, committing human rights abuses against Ukrainians living in the Donbas.

            make their language and culture illegal

            The Russian language was not, nor has it ever been, banned. The Ukrainian parliament attempted to repeal a law that granted minority languages such as Russian regional status but it was vetoed by the then president of Ukraine. It’s wasn’t until 2018 that the law was deemed to be unconstitutional but even then, neither the Russian language, nor its culture was banned

            In early 2022 Ukraine was preparing for military action on Donbas, to essentially remove all remaining dissenters.

            Ukraine has been investing heavily in its defense capabilities since it was invaded in 2014 by a hostile foreign power. If there was ever a good reason to build up a military, that’s it

      • mashbooq@infosec.pub
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        1 year ago

        That’s a straw man, because in this case they weren’t under genocidal siege by the state it is internationally recognized to be a part of

        • knfrmity@lemmygrad.ml
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          1 year ago

          How is that relevant? The topic at hand is sovereignty and what the supposed correct way to go about achieving it is, not shitty economic liberalization.

          • Akasazh@feddit.nl
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            1 year ago

            I didn’t mean the economic reform, but the re-ordering of the states.

            If you’d like parts of a country that is overbearing to split off and become countries of their own, that’s quite an effective method, wouldn’t you say?

    • BartsBigBugBag@lemmy.tf
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      1 year ago

      So you support Turkey over the Kurds, right? Given that they had a well-organized Declaration of Independence and autonomy, without the consent of the legitimate government in Turkey.