• pl_woah@lemmy.ml
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    11 months ago

    Humans think real random isn’t random 🙃

    It’s wild but they see patterns

    • pup_atlas@pawb.social
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      11 months ago

      The problem isn’t that their random is biased or has rules, the is that it is entirely deterministic, to the point where it will play the same exact songs, in the same exact order for days. It’s as if shuffle just activates a hidden “shuffle” playlist that only updates once a week.

      • pl_woah@lemmy.ml
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        11 months ago

        You and I might be talking about different things.

        I mean that humans don’t like theoretically true random, as a cool side note

        You seem upset about one implementation

        Also, shuffling and having something appear near even though you throught it was shuffled is part of that finding patterns

        • iiGxC@slrpnk.net
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          11 months ago

          Yep, I know what you’re talking about, but spotify weights songs it thinks you’ll like higher than other songs, and with big playlists it really is a noticeable problem. There are services that shuffle the order of your playlist, so then in spotify you play it with spotifys shuffle turned off, and yes there are “patterns” that I notice (one song I had in their twice, I think like a single version and album version, was right next to itself), but at least I actually hear songs I haven’t heard in a long time, and I don’t get the same ones regularly

        • pup_atlas@pawb.social
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          11 months ago

          Yes, that was what I was getting at. Not having true random is one thing, I understand (and like) that implementation. Apple has been doing it since the first few iPods. But Spotify “shuffle” isn’t near even, it is exactly even, as in “if you shuffle play this playlist twice two days in a row, it will play the exact same order”. Which is why people are complaining about Spotify specifically.

      • lad@programming.dev
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        11 months ago

        I’d guess that every time user presses “shuffle” they just shuffle the playlist and never change the order afterwards. So song order is really not random it’s shuffled

    • rush@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      Well, computers physically cannot be random, they rely on logic

      • pl_woah@lemmy.ml
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        11 months ago

        CSPRNGs are a thing…

        As are radioactive sources

        And there’s mathematical tests for whether something is random enough

        So no, computers really can do random xD

        • rush@lemm.ee
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          11 months ago

          CSPRNG literally stands for “cryptographically secure pseudorandom number generator”. All randomness in computers is pseudorandom. Not TRULY random

          Radioactive sources for randomness aren’t really just put into your average household PC or phone either for obvious reasons.

          • pl_woah@lemmy.ml
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            11 months ago

            A CSPRNG is more than random enough for a playlist xD

            Take it from someone who works in the field - computers do random well enough rotflol

            • rush@lemm.ee
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              11 months ago

              That’s not what I’m doubting here. I was raising awareness to the fact that a computer physically cannot be truly random. I know that pseudorandomness is enough as we cannot perceive a difference easily.