But Ukraine’s president fears that some of his country’s Western backers are losing faith

“There is no way of predicting how the millions of Ukrainian refugees in European countries would react to their country being abandoned. Ukrainians have generally “behaved well” and are “very grateful” to those who sheltered them. They will not forget that generosity. But it would not be a “good story” for Europe if it were to “drive these people into a corner”.”

          • TokenBoomer@hexbear.net
            2·
            1 year ago

            Thanks. The Nation article concerns the Russian disinformation campaign in 2016. Russia’s involvement was always going to be difficult to calculate. It says nothing about Trump and his campaign’s ties and business dealings with Russian officials. You can say Russiagate didn’t happen all you want, but it doesn’t change the facts. Paul Manaforte owed money to Oleg Deripaksa. Manaforte admitted to giving voter polling data to Kilimnik. Michael Cohen pled guilty to lying about Trump Moscow tower. Russians](url) tried to hack state election systems.

            Are you saying these things didn’t happen in our reality? Clinton’s campaign may have exaggerated the effectiveness of Russian interference. The Steele Dossier is an example of that. But to say there was no interference and that Trump and his team had no connections is pure disinformation.

            • ☭ Blursty ☭@lemmygrad.ml
              1·
              1 year ago

              But to say there was no interference and that Trump and his team had no connections is pure disinformation.

              Do you have anything at all to back that up? What interference was there? Your links above are about random business dealings. If you believe there was interference you must have some reason to?

                • ☭ Blursty ☭@lemmygrad.ml
                  1·
                  1 year ago

                  So your entire reason for believing in this conspiracy theory is that someone met with Russians. The rest you’ve daydreamed up.

                  Isn’t there enough shit on Trump without having to make stuff up?

      • TokenBoomer@hexbear.net
        1·
        1 year ago

        I was under the impression that parts of it are true. That Paul Manaforte gave voter information to Russian officials. That Trump planned to build a hotel in Moscow. There were emails between Kushner and Russians. That there was a Trump tower meeting to remove sanctions. Did those things not happen?

        • StalinwasaGryffindor [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
          3·
          1 year ago

          So when people use the ‘gate’ suffix it’s a reference to the watergate scandal, where Nixon paid for people to break into Democratic Party headquarters and the subsequent cover up of that crime. This is a really concrete conspiracy, where you can point to exact events and why they were criminal.

          With russiagate I don’t believe there is anything close to a sequence of events that elevate what just looks like sleazy business deals to the level of conspiracy. It’s a vague term and I just want to understand what you mean when you say you believe in russiagate.

          Also, I hope I’m not coming across as hostile or pedantic, I’m just genuinely hoping to understand your thoughts

          • TokenBoomer@hexbear.net
            2·
            1 year ago

            Okay. It’s just that Trump and his connections to Russia are partially responsible for moving me far left. I learned of these connections before 2016. Not to say that they were all true. But there’s enough smoke there. So I wanted to learn why people voted for him. This lead me to authoritarian personality disorder, hierarchy and eventually capitalism. So it’s a little weird to see people dismissive of Trump’s ties. Mueller even said in the report that he should be prosecuted for obstruction if he wasn’t President.