On what grounds do you say the CPC does not make an effort to make its government transparent? Whole Process People’s Democracy, and the general democratic processes within the PRC, require politicians to work their way up from small, local rungs until they reach the top. Secondly, the fact that you don’t speak Mandarin and consider all state press to be propaganda rags does not mean that the CPC doesn’t showcase transparency to its own citizens in the PRC.

Thirdly, it is a chauvanistic point of view to claim that the PRC doesn’t “emancipate its own citizens” so they can “form critical opinions,” frankly. This is a sinophobic point of view that claims a country of billions can’t think for themselves.

Finally, the claim that “those in power have the tools to keep themselves in power” is utterly unsubstantiated. You’re conjuring a view of China that isn’t based on any material claims.

Listen, I’m sure you’re trying to answer in good-faith, but it’s clear that you’re entirely unfamiliar with how the PRC works and funtions on a day to day basis. It is entirely okay to admit to not knowing much about it, taking a break from the keyboard, and reading up on concepts like Whole Process People’s Democracy. I think it would benefit you greatly.

I know you’re an Anarchist, but Mao has fantastic advice for this kind of subject matter:

Unless you have investigated a problem, you will be deprived of the right to speak on it. Isn’t that too harsh? Not in the least. When you have not probed into a problem, into the present facts and its past history, and know nothing of its essentials, whatever you say about it will undoubtedly be nonsense. Talking nonsense solves no problems, as everyone knows, so why is it unjust to deprive you of the right to speak? Quite a few comrades always keep their eyes shut and talk nonsense, and for a Communist that is disgraceful. How can a Communist keep his eyes shut and talk nonsense?

It won’t do!

It won’t do!

You must investigate!

You must not talk nonsense!

Oppose Book Worship

I also recommend my introductory Marxism-Leninism reading list, and am happy to answer any questions you might have.

Can you explain how Whole Process People’s Democracy is “top-down?” Further, can you explain why it’s a good thing for Capitalists to control the press, and not the public? The inverse of public press is private press, and that means ownership by Capitalists and liberals. Surely it’s better for the people to control the press, and not the bourgeoisie?

Further, can you explain how the government is “intransparent and oppressive by design?” Just because you don’t speak mandarin doesn’t mean the process is mystified and opaque for those who live in and contribute to said system.

Hahaha 😂

Sharing it! Or just jamming

There’s a lot going on here, so I will go section by section.

1. Hong Kong

The scale of the violence against protestors is exaggerated, and much of the protests were directly funded by Hong Kong bourgeoisie and Western NGOs and States, like the US. Currently, less than a quarter want independence. This is because Hong Kong was a british colony and financially is totally enmeshed with mainland China.

2. Taiwan

Both Taiwan and the PRC claim legitimate rule to the entirety of China. However, Taiwan’s historical background is as a runaway retreat for the Kuomintang, a Nationalist party that was at war with the much more popular CPC. Taiwan also serves as a staging ground for the US to exert pressure on the PRC.

3. Uyghur Repression

This is a topic I don’t know enough about, and reserve the right not to speak. However, I will say that claims of “genocide” come from the fascist Adrian Zenz, and moreover travel to Xinjiang is open and freely permissible. In addition, Uyghurs were exempt from the One Child Policy, as all minority populations were. I cannot speak on the treatment within the re-education camps, however, as I have not done the research necessary.

4. Imperialism

When Marxists speak of Imperialism, they speak of Lenin’s definition and outlining, which refers to a specific stage in Capitalism where Industrial and Financial Capital are exported to super-exploit for super-profits. These actions by the PRC do not constitute Imperialism from that standpoint.

5. Covering up

I am not aware of the CPC covering up or censoring discussion of these topics.

Others have done far more research on those subjects and can answer them better than I can, so rather than contribute to the spread of nonsense I will refrain from speaking outside of what I factually know.

What, specifically, are you asking about?

Gotcha.

Thanks for that, didn’t know! I was unaware that there was an official stance on the matter, though even nutomic makes the point that it’s easy to conflate “flagship instance” with “main instance.”

The nuances of the PRC’s desire for a One China policy largely stem from the Marxist theory of Nations, along with a desire to throw off all western colonizers. Without understanding the depths of the “century of humiliation” you can’t hope to understand the desire for a unified China.

Secondly, the PRC’s process means social change comes slowly, but it has been improving. Notably, Xin Jing, a transgender woman, is one of China’s top celebrities. Change is slow, but is happening at different rates across different sections of the PRC. Social change comes from improvements in productive forces and focusing on people as a priority.

Thirdly, nobody is saying the PRC is Anarchist, but your insistence that everyone agree with you saying the government is by definition a tool of oppression despite 90%+ approval rates stands at direct odds with the people themselves. Like it or not, you must face the reality that it is Marxism that has brought great improvements to China’s conditions, and these improvements are continuing at a rapid pace, and thus has widespread support.

You can see quite a few instances in this thread of such accusations. Actually, maybe not, you aren’t federated with the major leftist instances as far as I know.

Klein herself is fairly liberal, but the impact on the post-Soviet citizenry is apt. 7 million people died so that the West could profit.

Why does it make you suspicious? Do you have legitimate grounds for this? Under the CPC, extreme poverty has been eliminated, and China went from being one of the poorest countries on the planet to a rising superpower in less than a century. When you look at the real, material change in people’s lives in as short a timespan as this, it’s understandable why they have a high approval rate.

Secondly, I don’t know what you’re referring to as “justification for violence and oppression.”

1. Nobody believes Russia is a Utopia.

2. Nobody believes the PRC is perfect, but on the right track, and especially nice in Tier 1 and 2 cities.

3. The CPC has over 90% support, the fact that China has a government does not mean that is “evil.”

This might be a hard pill to swallow, but Putin is largely popular among Russians for assisting with throwing out the Western Capitalists that bought the various slices of the former USSR after “Shock Doctrine” killed 7 million people with the re-introduction of Capitalism, and the CPC has an over 90% approval rate. Political opposition is largely limited because both governments have more support among their citizenry than Western governments do.

Vaporwave but with Parenti speeches 😎

I appreciate you calling me smart and trying to have a conversation, however I want to stress something you said:

I’m saying that tankies claim to be communists but spend all day parroting their favorite Russian or Chinese state propaganda because they believe everything else is clearly controlled by Obamna™ himself. They rarely actually talk about communism, they just roam Lemmy all day calling everybody who disagrees with them a liberal :D

What you are seeing is one aspect of people, and moreover the ones with “favorite state propaganda” that distrust all western sources as liberal propaganda don’t exist. Even just seeing people debating endlessly on Lemmy.ml is just one aspect, people frequently have different accounts or discuss Communism on different threads than the ones they get into debates in.

Additionally, I encourage you to look beyond the western veil. There are plenty of Russia-critical sources and China-critical sources in the east.

With respect to China, I encourage you to look into processes like Whole Process People’s Democracy, State Owned Enterprises, and other aspects to see how Socialism with Chinese Characteristics works. I encourage you to read the article I linked, as well. Additionally, while I know you said you are an Anarchist, your point on centralization being a bad thing goes directly against Marxist understanding. I recommend the article Why Public Property?

Capitalism concentrates itself and centralizes, which prepares the productive forces for the mechanisms required to centerally plan them after folding them into the Public Sector. Central Planning is the only way to truly democratize production in the eyes of Marxists.

Thanks! Feel free to ask questions 🫡

Haha, if you want the most bang for your buck I stand wholeheartedly behind my introductory reading list. I truly put a lot of effort into it and several comrades helped tremendously.

It’s certainly difficult, but when in doubt I love sharing this person’s articles as more bite-sized bits of theory and soundbites from Michael Parenti speeches, haha.

Cool 👍