People get mad when they have a problem and you provide a solution they can feasibly take part in. As soon as they have any agency/capability to take responsibility suddenly they are unable to.

They are self-aware, willing to change and learn, and have a rational, logical view of things. It’s rare to meet people like that, but they are by far the best people. Someone’s philosophy on life is probably the best descriptor of a person.

What is the metric for fairness here? And what version of 'capitalism' are we talking about?

Both. Most people who eat meat would say animal abuse is wrong, all while ignoring their own contribution. A lack of intellectual honesty and logical consistency that leads to moral problems is also anti-intellectual. They would say slavery is wrong because it is prejudice, and unjust for ‘xyz’ reasons, while also saying ‘xyz’ reasons aren’t good enough to change their mind away from eating meat.

I’ve only found people who say really stupid shit get completely downvoted to the floor on Lemmy and there are almost always extensive responses. Anecdotes aren’t the best evidence, I guess my experience was very different.

However, at least you can actually see if people upvoted or downvoted and not just the total, so people are less inclined to just hop the train straight away. Depends largely on the instance though. I’m pretty sure Hexbears can’t even downvote.

Lemmy is far better than Reddit regarding the use of downvotes, but many people still use it as an emotional disagreement button rather than something used to hide useless/irrelevant content. I only downvote when somebody says something completely fucked or starts trolling.

I don’t think upvoting funny comments is necessarily wrong, but there is a lack of meaningful engagement a lot of the time.

No. Do you have anything to add?

I enjoy literature very much, but I don’t see why they couldn’t have picked something more relevant or thought-provoking. My own teachers said it was just what they did as part of the curriculum because it was the easiest to teach relative to some of the other options.

I don’t think there are only 2 outcomes. I asked a question regarding a potential of one absolute outcome.

Add in surface level observations of ‘if you are so smart you would realise not everyone is an idiot’ or ‘you have to understand their perspective better’ and maybe 1/2 comments you are slamming a shot. I guess people don’t read comments anymore. (Probably never did.)

Anybody who thinks themselves above making mistakes is delusional. It’s really concerning how people will live such self-centred lives without greater consideration or introspection. So many people lack self-awareness and the ability to properly process emotions without just giving in to them. Cultural conditioning and manipulation definitely plays a part in this. It took me so long to realise how wrong the consumption of animal products was because until I got around the age of 12 I thought much more highly of people and didn’t believe so many people would partake, willing or ignorantly, in the abuse of animals so carelessly. Realising how selfish and narrow-minded many people are is really saddening. It’s very rare for someone to break free from social conditioning, even more so by their own decisions alone.

I also have to agree the comments saying shit like ‘some people are stupid, others are not’ are just redundant. Similarly, the people who say ‘not everyone is an idiot, you have to see it from their perspective’ are also incredibly annoying. Even if people have reasons, they don’t provide adequate justifications. I can understand why they may have an idea or perspective, but it doesn’t make it valid. I have gone through understanding people more than most people to ever have existed will have tried, but I can’t fight every single case. Too many people think their opinion matters equally to another’s who has invested magnitudes more time into formulating it. I think people really need a humbling to be able to appreciate things and learn more.

Everyone has gaps in their knowledge and errors in their thinking. A true master is an eternal student, or something like that. We can always learn. The problem here is too many people have their own ego impeding any progress.

I agree. But way too fucking many people will ignore the last 2.

I’ll never not see anti-intellectual people as stupid, even if they have their reasons. I used to be an idiot who actively did things they thought were wrong. But eventually I stopped because I realised it’s completely hypocritical and morally and logically wrong. I came to that conclusion without need of others judging me through my own self-reflection, and I’ll admit it was hard. Even so, I wished somebody would have called me out, but I guess animal consumption is so engrained in society people don’t even question it. I had my reasons to do so, but they were by no means a justification. I still try to understand things in different ways, but eventually it becomes redundant taking each case and doing so. The reality is that anti-intellectualism is incredibly prevalent and people need to change their ways of thinking. Sometimes they are just blatantly wrong and need to stop letting their emotions do their thinking. Sometimes there is nothing to understand. I don’t know why people are so bent on seeing every individual separately, it’s impossible to do so. Even if we do, they are still liable for their actions. Such as choosing not to self-reflect.

I don’t think everyone is an idiot. It’s a big assumption to say so. People have their reasons and motivations. Many people weren’t given a fair chance in life, many lacked an education, many were raised to think a certain way or in a certain culture.

I’d wager I have tried arguing with the people I would categorise as ‘anti-intellectual’ more than 99% of people to ever have lived trying to understand them, and I did develop a level of empathy and understanding. But still it remains that just because people have reasons, they aren’t necessarily valid and eventually people are responsible for their own self-reflection and decisions. ‘Solving’ this issue with people who already have engrained beliefs is incredibly difficult because they need to be responsible themselves. It isn’t something I can actualise solely. It’s far easier to start from a fresh generation, because changing is hard when you are used to something for so long. You see this in religious people especially and in people who eat meat. I know why they are/do what they do, but still it doesn’t give justification. Many of them may even doubt their beliefs, but still cling to them. I know they do because I used to as well. I even still proceeded to do things I know were wrong. I don’t claim to be flawless. Furthermore, I also know there is no reason to come in blaming these people ruthlessly because it will not progress anywhere and serve no purpose, what is done is done. But I cannot deny how annoying it is to see people still refuse to even attempt to learn.

The ‘solution’ is very complex if you want people to change because it will be an incredibly difficult task and something that would require an entire cultural shift to how people think. No doubt long term and I don’t have the answer to how, and even if somebody did, it still relies on others to make a decision themselves. You can only make your own judgement of individuals for so long, soon enough you can recognise patterns and arguing every case is not possible with what time you have. I do my best.

The worst thing at school by far was being forced to read shit like Romeo and Juliet at school that I just didn’t care about. Of course, I still enjoy reading, but it is really off-putting as an experience. Too much of the school system focuses on exams and retaining correct information, rather than the logical processes or conclusions derived from learning something and adapting it. Memory and exams are still very, very important, but without the skills to adapt the information or consider alternatives it becomes very limited in application when you are taught so strictly.

I think ‘human nature’ is far too broad to define in such a way, and making objective statements about it is wrong. In my opinion, the only definite thing you can say is that humans act out of self-interest (as do all living beings), but the motivation derived from it doesn’t have to be destructive.

Logically and morally, this is an obvious conclusion, but most people are fucking idiots or apathetic towards what they perceive as ‘lesser injustices.’ Religious people are now existentially threatened because people are openly non-believers and since most of them lack self-reflection capabilities they get angry and aggravated and do what they can to fight for what is right in their eyes. One of the worst aspects of religion is that it makes people feel justified in doing things they otherwise never would have.

You can derive it from yourself and not a greater ‘supernatural’ purpose. For example, I have accepted I will die and that there is no meaning to life, I might even be an anti-natalist, but that doesn’t mean I just give up and live in despair. I’m alive and so with that life I act in my own self-interest to make the world better because it’s what makes my existence have a meaning.

I feel bad for religious people who have been deceived their entire lives’ into a delusion. But at the same time, I almost feel no empathy when they go out of their way to do and say the most insane stuff with religion as a justification.