If one day old tankie account says that, it must be true.

It’s easier to manage/secure since it’s essentially just shell scripts

I love the fact that I can’t tell whether this is irony or not.

its only duty will be to spawn other, more restricted processes.

Perhaps I’m misremembering things, but I’m pretty sure the SysVinit didn’t run any “more restricted processes”. It ran a bunch of bash scripts as root. Said bash scripts were often absolutely terrible.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but VOR can be jammed just as easily? It’s effectively just ground based GPS.

There are actually devices, that can to a certain extent resist jamming by rejecting signal coming from some direction while amplifying signal from other. Typically they amplify signal from space and reject signal from ground where the jammers would be. So in a way GPS is more resilient against jamming if you can use this device. But AFAIK they are only used for military purposes.

The default tier of AWS glacier uses tape, which is why data retrieval takes a few hours from when you submit the request to when you can actually download the data, and costs a lot.

AFAIK Glacier is unlikely to be tape based. A bunch of offline drives is more realistic scenario. But generally it’s not public knowledge unless you found some trustworthy source for the tape theory?

FWIW restic repository format already has two independent implementations. Restic (in Go) and Rustic (Rust), so the chances of both going unmaintained is hopefully pretty low.

Let me be more clear: devs are not required to release binaries at all. Bit they should, if they want their work to be widely used.

Yeah, but that’s not there reality of the situation. Docker images is what drives wide adoption. Docker is also great development tool if one needs to test stuff quickly, so the Dockerfile is there from the very beginning and thus providing image is almost for free.

Binaries are more involved because suddenly you have multiple OSes, libc, musl,… it’s not always easy to build statically linked binary (and it’s also often bad idea) So it’s much less likely to happen. If you tried just running statically linked binary on NixOS, you probably know it’s not as simple as chmod a+x.

I also fully agree with you that curl+pipe+bash random stuff should be banned as awful practice and that is much worse than containers in general. But posting instructions on forums and websites is not per se dangerous or a bad practice. Following them blindly is, but there is still people not wearing seatbelts in cars or helmets on bikes, so…

Exactly what I’m saying. People will do stupid stuff and containers have nothing to do with it.

Chmod 777 should be banned in any case, but that steams from containers usage (due to wrongly built images) more than anything else, so I guess you are biting your own cookie here.

Most of the time it’s not necessary at all. People just have “allow everything, because I have no idea where the problem could be”. Containers frequently run as root, so I’d say the chmod is not necessary.

In a world where containers are the only proposed solution, I believe something will be taken from us all.

I think you mean images not containers? I don’t think anything will be taken, image is just easy to provide, if there is no binary provided, there would likely be no binary even without docker.

In fact IIRC this practice of providing binaries is relatively new trend. (Popularized by Go I think) Back in the days you got source code and perhaps Makefile. If you were lucky a debian/src directory with code to build your package. And there was no lack of freedom.

On one hand you complain about docker images making people dumb on another you complain about absence of pre-compiled binary instead of learning how to build stuff you run. A bit of a double standard.

I don’t agree with the premise of your comment about containers. I think most of the downsides you listed are misplaced.

First of all they make the user dumber. Instead of learning something new, you blindly “compose pull & up” your way. Easy, but it’s dumbifier and that’s not a good thing.

I’d argue, that actually using containers properly requires very solid Linux skills. If someone indeed blindly “compose pull & up” their stuff, this is no different than blind curl | sudo bash which is still very common. People are going to muddle through the installation copy pasting stuff no matter what. I don’t see why containers and compose files would be any different than pipe to bash or random reddit comment with “step by step instructions”. Look at any forum where end users aren’t technically strong and you’ll see the same (emulation forums, raspberry pi based stuff, home automation,…) - random shell scripts, rm -rf this ; chmod 777 that

Containers are just another piece of software that someone can and will run blindly. But I don’t see why you’d single them out here.

Second, there is a dangerous trend where projects only release containers, and that’s bad for freedom of choice

As a developer I can’t agree here. The docker images (not “containers” to be precise) are not there replacing deb packages. They are there because it’s easy to provide image. It’s much harder to release a set of debs, rpms and whatnot for distribution the developer isn’t even using. The other options wouldn’t even be there in the first place, because there’s only so many hours in a day and my open source work is not paying my bills most of the time. (patches and continued maintenance is of course welcome) So the alternative would be just the source code, which you still get. No one is limiting your options there. If anything the Dockerfile at least shows exactly how you can build the software yourself even without using docker. It’s just bash script with extra isolation.

I am aware that you can download an image and extract the files inside, that’s more an hack than a solution.

Yeah please don’t do that. It’s probably not a good idea. Just build the binary or whatever you’re trying to use yourself. The binaries in image often depend on libraries inside said image which can be different from your system.

Third, with containers you are forced to use whatever deployment the devs have chosen for you. Maybe I don’t want 10 postgres instances one for each service, or maybe I already have my nginx reverse proxy or so.

It might be easier (effort-wise) but you’re certainly not forced. At the very least you can clone the repo and just edit the Dockerfile to your liking. With compose file it’s the same story, just edit the thing. Or don’t use it at all. I frequently use compose file just for reference/documentation and run software as a set of systemd units in Nix. You do you. You don’t have to follow a path that someone paved if you don’t like the destination. Remember that it’s often someone’s free time that paid for this path, they are not obliged to provide perfect solution for you. They are not taking anything away from you by providing solution that someone else can use.

I’m huge fan of Nix, but for someone wondering if they should “learn docker” Nix is absolutely brutal.

Also IMO while there’s some overlap, one is not a complete replacement for the other. I use both in combination frequently.

There’s also Rustic. It uses the same repository format as restic. It already has some pretty neat features and since latest release a ton of built-in backends.

Depending how inflation goes €3k limit will soon be in the territory of regular smartphone price or any slightly more expensive household purchase. AFAIK €1k 3 decades ago would be about €3k now.

That is assuming no one tries to push the limits lower, which is almost guaranteed to happen.

At this stage Medvedev is using nuclear threats to separate paragraphs in his speeches.

I’m curious. How would you identify who’s guest and who’s not in this case?

With multiple networks it’s pretty easy as they are on a different network.

I have a bunch of these myself and that is my experience, but don’t have any screenshots now.

However there’s great comparison of these thin clients if you don’t mind Polish: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLRplLPdd3Q

Just the relevant screens to save you some time:

Power usage:

Cinebench multi core:

The power usage in idle is within 2W from Pi 4 and the performance is about double compared to overclocked Pi 4. It’s really quite viable alternative unless you need really small device. The only alternative size-wise is slightly bigger WYSE 3040, but that one has x5-z8350 CPU, which sits somewhere between Pi3B+ and Pi4 performance-wise. It is also very low power though and if you don’t need that much CPU it is also very viable replacement. (these can be easily bought for about €60 on eBay, or cheaper if you shop around)

Also each W of extra idle power is about 9kWh extra consumed. Even if you paid 50c/kWh (which would be more than I’ve ever seen) that’s €5 per year extra. So I wouldn’t lose my sleep over 2W more or less. Prices here are high, 9kWh/y is rounding error.

Thin clients based on J5005 or J4105 generally idle under 5W. (Futro S740, Wyse 5070,…) They consume a bit more when 100% loaded (11W vs 8W), but they also provide about 2x performance of Pi4.

(That article you shared is measuring power consumption on the USB port, which does not take into account overhead of USB adapter itself)

If you search ebay for Intel based thin clients, many are more powerful than RPi while being passively cooled and having very similar power consumption.

That honestly sounds like taxation with extra steps.

Why are you exporting food to some place while the local restaurant is importing it?

The obvious answer is that they both do what is most reasonable for them. If it’s cheaper to source locally the restaurant can (and if they care will) source locally. But why limit yourself to local only?

In practice the “let’s do all local” is very naive. My friend is a farmer. He told me about hay to give you some example. He’s able to sell and deliver truckload of bales for a good price. It’s extra money for him. But the thing is you need to buy truck load. Some local horse owner wanted just one bale. And he explained that if he paid the driver to go over to his farm, load it, unload it, paid the fuel, etc… he’d be actually losing money. So you might be wondering why is that horse owner buying more expensive hay when there’s farm with literal tons of hay not that far away. Well that’s why - it’s actually cheaper for everyone involved.

There’s another company that has cars and equipment to do small deliveries. They buy bulk hay, make smaller packages and sell it, but it’s obviously not local anymore, they need to be able reach across the country as they wouldn’t even cover equipment cost if they only served few local horse owners. It sounds ineffective, but it really isn’t.

I’m not saying that it’s always absolute 100℅ effective system, but everyone involved has motivation to be as effective as possible.

To stretch this into extremes, why aren’t you using locally built computer? It is technically possible to build one in your city. But the investment would be astronomical. And once you produce said computers, producing just enough for local community would never be economical. And if you produced quantities that are economically viable and sold them globally, it would be cheaper to buy them from the local global market than to build logistics for local delivery.

sending out your surplus harvest for distribution

I fail to understand what surplus harvest is in this context. I have a friend farmer and he never mentioned that, because you know they generally sell stuff. The closest thing he mentioned was hay of which he might have more than he’ll need to feed the animals over winter, but even that is same product as any other and is sold to other farms. It’s not surplus, it’s par of the production.

all kinds of services from the wider community

What kind of services are we talking about? Farmers (and other citizens in EU) also get all kind of services. Also once they sell their produce, they can get all kind of services even beyond what local community provides. I don’t see any benefit outside of situation where the export/import is impractical. Hence my metaphor with fission. (even if not technically 100% accurate as metaphors are)

if they manage to do it between a rock and a hard place, the system itself is plenty stable enough to work under better conditions

That’s like saying that if fusion manages to happen in the middle of the sun, surely it can happen in my living room.

if you somehow teleported it over it wouldn’t regress politically – what would be the reason for people to allow that?

Why wouldn’t they? If my family is about to starve and most import and export is blocked, sure I will work on a farm to sustain our community, because ultimately that also feeds my family and I don’t have the option to seek better job somewhere in EU.

If there is no ISIS on the border trying to murder me, why should I accept that the farm that belonged to my family for generations was collectivized and I’m working on it for a tiny share rather than benefiting from all it can produce?

Thanks for detailed reply. I didn’t mean it in a bad way. It certainly wasn’t well written comment. Apologies.

What I failed to convey is that IMO this is not best example as It’s a community stuck between rock and a hard place. A lot of what it is right now seems to exist out of necessity. Which makes me wonder how well would it work if there were other realistic options that aren’t absolutely horrible.

Like if you lifted the entire land and dropped it in the middle of the EU with free market and mobility, would it still exist? I don’t think it would. For the same reasons I mentioned earlier.