I can think of one immediately that may fight the US for that title…

Without a doubt.

I don’t think they care whether they are legitimate or not to be completely honest. Hamas won the election in '06 fair and square, then defended against an attempted coup…whether that leaves them as a legitimate power or not is beyond my scope of understanding. One could probably also argue that they lack of elections for the last 18 years makes them illegitimate. But regardless, Hamas is an easy excuse whether they were elected fairly today or 18 years ago. I honestly don’t think Israel would treat Hamas and Palestinians any differently if they won a fair election again next week.

Exactly. When someone thinks an occupied people living under siege and military occupation can just wake up one day and decide to hold elections I can only shake my head. Israel won’t allow it, because they love Hamas being in power in Gaza, it provides a very easy excuse for their actions. Israel loves the status quo, because they can seemingly get away with anything as it is.

To be completely fair, I don’t think anyone is blaming Biden for all of the conflict between Zionists and Palestinians historically. What we are blaming him for is facilitating the last 7 months of blatant genocide and ethnic cleansing by sending money and weapons to Israel and defending them at every turn. without Biden’s unwavering support, the last 7 months would look a hell of a lot different for Palestinians.

I’ve said this before and I will say it again. This period of time will go down in history as a particularly dark time in human history. The fact that not only is this happening, but efforts to stop it from people with real power to change it is incredibly minimal. The world powers letting this happen is perhaps worse that the Zionists doing it.

To be fair, the current leader is aiding a genocide. US presidents tend to be criminals in one way or another.

Great, now do Israel

Years, decades *

If anyone understands it, it’s the South African leaders who just presented their genocide case in front of the ICJ. History will remember them.

I respectfully disagree, I think the military aid and supplies that the US sends them definitely enables the disastrous policies against the Palestinians.

I don’t think it is. If Biden cancelled all aid to Israel over this, I think we’d see a big shift in Israeli policy. Remember what happened when the US finally dropped their support of apartheid SA?

I hear what you’re saying, Bibi and his cabinet of whack jobs are currently the main perpetrators. However, if for arguments sake, Biden sat down with Bibi on October 8th and outlined very clear red lines for it’s military aid, ensuring any action that was to be undertaken by Israel would be discriminate and proportionate, we’d be in a VERY different position right now.

Biden and the US military aid to Israel is not the only thing enabling the genocide in Gaza, but the genocide in Gaza would not have been able to happen without it.

Haaretz: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-18/ty-article/.premium/israeli-security-establishment-hamas-likely-didnt-have-prior-knowledge-of-nova-festival/0000018b-e2ee-d168-a3ef-f7fe8ca20000

The Electronic Intifada: https://electronicintifada.net/content/israeli-forces-shot-their-own-civilians-kibbutz-survivor-says/38861

Mondoweiss: https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/a-growing-number-of-reports-indicate-israeli-forces-responsible-for-israeli-civilian-and-military-deaths-following-october-7-attack/

The Grayzone: https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/27/israels-military-shelled-burning-tanks-helicopters/

I’m waiting for the IOF to make a very public display of the apache gunners who shot indiscriminately at the festival, or the tank commanders firing indiscriminately at homes in the kibbutzim. Your argument falls flat when the Israeli army not only is killing thousands of civilians in Gaza (and are proud of it btw), but also their own citizens on Oct 7.

Israel doesn’t have to be gone in order for Palestinians to be free. People are protesting because this isn’t a war, this is resistance fighters standing up against an occupation and apartheid system. A free Palestine does not mean Israel and Zionists wiped off the map. It means Palestinians living with dignity, human rights, and self determination; things they are not given now, and have not been given for 75 years.

Yes, there are those in the fringe that believe Israel needs to be wiped off the map. Any political situation will breed extremists. But in order for peace to be achieved, first and foremost is the dismantling of Israel’s APARTHEID SYSTEM.

this is why we rally. Our governments must understand that we are tasking them with putting pressure on Israel to change its ways. This is how apartheid fell in South Africa.

Free Palestine.

Salam and shalom to all citizens of Palestine.

Edit: forgot to add: those extremists do not represent the movement as a whole

• Reminder that multiple Palestinian villages have been ethnically cleansed in the West Bank during the assault on Gaza, by settler militias supported by the IOF.

• Reminder that Israel rejected early proposals for hostage exchanges opting instead for carnage on the Palestinian civilians.

• Reminder that Israel KNEW of the October 7 attack ahead of time and failed to do anything to stop it.

• Reminder that Israel is by all accounts a setler-colonial ethnostate imposing apartheid on the Palestinian people.

Reminder that there was a 56 year occupation and a 75 year ethnic cleansing before the 7th of October attacks

You’re absolutely right that there will be variance, and that each side has incentive to inflate death counts, etc. Other orgs will likely not produce their own numbers until after this mess is over. Check the Wiki pages or B’Tselem pages on previous assaults on Gaza to see how the numbers can vary, that’ll give you an idea at least.

Sorry, but I have been an advocate for Palestinian rights for years. I’m not just shilling out propaganda on the day of a massacre. As I type this, the confirmed death tolls have Israelis near 100 while Palestinian deaths are near double that. So if you want to start talking about massacres, just so far today Israel has caused more death, let alone the days, weeks, months, years and decades prior to today.