At least 274 Palestinians were killed and 698 wounded in Israeli strikes on the Nuseirat refugee camp in central Gaza, Gaza’s health ministry said on Sunday. The Israeli military said its forces came under heavy fire during the daytime operation.

The EU’s top diplomat, Josep Borrell, called it a “massacre”, while the UN’s aid chief described in graphic detail scenes of “shredded bodies on the ground”.

“Nuseirat refugee camp is the epicentre of the seismic trauma that civilians in Gaza continue to suffer,” Martin Griffiths said in a post on X, calling for a ceasefire and the release of all hostages.

  • fukhueson@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Can you cite where in that article your claim is substantiated?

    Edit: Again, not saying it hasn’t happened, but that article doesn’t say that. And I think it does matter unless you can prove that Israel is purposefully targeting non combat zones with no inclination that Hamas is hiding there. Israel itself has attacked areas deemed non combat zones, mistakes I don’t excuse, but this is by Hamas’ design.

    https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf

    EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

    Hamas, an Islamist militant group and the de facto governing authority of the Gaza Strip, has been using human shields in conflicts with Israel since 2007. According to the Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC), the war crime of using human shields encompasses “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas, or military forces immune from military operations.” Hamas has launched rockets, positioned military-related infrastructure-hubs and routes, and engaged the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) from, or in proximity to, residential and commercial areas.

    The strategic logic of human shields has two components. It is based on an awareness of Israel’s desire to minimise collateral damage, and of Western public opinion’s sensitivity towards civilian casualties. If the IDF uses lethal force and causes an increase in civilian casualties, Hamas can utilise that as a lawfare tool: it can accuse Israel of committing war crimes, which could result in the imposition of a wide array of sanctions. Alternatively, if the IDF limits its use of military force in Gaza to avoid collateral damage, Hamas will be less susceptible to Israeli attacks, and thereby able to protect its assets while continuing to fight. Moreover, despite the Israeli public’s high level of support for the Israeli political and military leadership during operations, civilian casualties are one of the friction points between Israeli left-wing and right-wing supporters, with the former questioning the outcomes of the operation.

    • zazo@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      So then would you hold Israel to the same standard of using human shields that you do Hamas?

      If so would you claim the Hamas attacks on the 7th were justified because they attacked settler towns like Be’eri, whose ideological purpose of existing this close to Gaza was specifically to create a civilian border (literal large scale human shield)?

      Using civilians to protect any military objective (including the land you’ve settled by force) is appalling - but let’s not pretend only one side is doing it.

      If you really care about peace - petition your leaders for a one state solution where both Israelis and Palestinians (no matter their religion) are allowed to coexist and are equal in the eyes of the law and the people.

      • fukhueson@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Yes, and this is all clear whataboutism. And lazy at that. So that means we both think Hamas should stop using civilians as human shields right? Sweet, tell me when they stop. And I’m gonna just ignore your attempt to equate Hamas charter with 11 points, that’s just silly on its face :)

        • zazo@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          You accuse me of whataboutism then you just use it yourself.

          Yes, I don’t think Hamas should be using human shields but I also don’t think Israel should be settling land even before the partitioning of Palestine. (I mean the idea of a foreign state partitioning land they don’t inhabit is insane, but let’s ignore that for the sake of argument)

          How do you not see using civilian encampments as a makeshift human wall just as immoral?

          And we can play the whole who started it first game as much as we want but it doesn’t negate the fact that even after unfavorable borders for Palestine were established - settlers continued to take over land with the support of the IDF - where is the defense in burning homes and expelling Palestinians from land not even within the borders of Israel?? (oh but it was contested territory you see so that gives us the right to massacre people, yes I am very intelligent…)

          Saying Hamas is the reason the IDF is killing civilians completely misses the history of the struggle - what’s next the Nakba was also Hamas’ fault then?

          • fukhueson@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            Sounds like the history is that Hamas held hostages in a refugee camp and that’s dangerous for them. No other history involving anyone else legitimizes Hamas doing this.

            And to address your accusation of whataboutism, I’ll refer you to my original comment at the top of the chain and ask you what I started to discuss and who changed the topic. “So you would hold Israel to the same standards?” Is textbook whataboutism.

            Edit: and I think using civilians as shields is worse. Much worse. End of debate.

            • zazo@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              I mean you came in swinging with the whole “but why is Hamas holding hostages in a refugee camp” line which is actual whataboutism when the thread is about the IDF killing over 200 people.

              Why not ask why the IDF doesn’t have procedures in place to prevent civilian casualties? Why not ask why is it impossible to send ground troops instead of carpet bombing Gaza? Why not ask why does Hamas exist in the first place? Is there a single thing you’ll admit the IDF/Israel has done wrong that isn’t somehow the fault of Hamas?

              Your lack of humanity was already showing, but I didn’t think you’d be so unable to retort that you’d just forfeit the debate…

              • fukhueson@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                No, I started a topic and you changed it. The article itself says there were hostages held in refugee camps. “Coming in swinging” is just… indicative. I’m ending this with you.

                And there is NOTHING that excuses using civilians as shields. Stop trying to justify it.

                • zazo@lemmy.world
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                  5 months ago

                  I mean you could have asked why Israel attacks refugee camps in the first place (even before Hamas)?

                  Or do you think that atrocities like "women and children were stripped, lined up, photographed and then slaughtered by automatic fire" doesn’t breed resentment? (not that Hamas didn’t do the same on 7.11 but let’s not pretend Israel isn’t at least as complicit as Hamas in the overall conflict)

                  I’ll admit using civilians as shields is indeed dreadful - but my main point is acknowledging that violence only breeds more violence and that the first step to preventing more deaths is dismantling the current terror state form of Israel, not killing more and more civilians as some form of extirpation…

                  I’ll leave you with this - if there’s no oppressor to rally against, what would give Hamas power?

                  • fukhueson@lemmy.world
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                    5 months ago

                    All I see is you trying to garner understanding towards Hamas using civilians as shields. No history leads to this, Hamas is not forced to do this.