you are absolutely welcome to complain, however i would advise you to complain about actual real issues, rather than “black hole issues” like “The DNC didn’t personally target me and now i feel left out” because let’s be honest, nobody fucking cares. We have problems to be solving, not shit to be moping over.
uh, no? These are literally two irrelevant concepts.
If you want to complain about the fact that the biden/harris admin have less than desirable stances on the israel/palestine problem, by all means do that. But i don’t see how this is relevant to anything to do with beating trump. Because the statistics literally show that 75 million people voted for kamala harris this election. to the 77 million who voted for trump. Could that specific issue push her over the edge? Maybe, maybe not. It’s impossible to know unless you do incredibly in depth study on it.
This is literally the meme of “if only it wasn’t slightly too cold for me to comfortably go on a run right now, otherwise i would totally be taking care of my physical fitness, instead i will do nothing.”
Harris purposely ignored and pushed away parts of her base that cared about Palestine. She also refused to let a single Palestinian-American Democrat speak at the DNC.
That is prioritizing the genocide over the campaign
Harris purposely ignored and pushed away parts of her base that cared about Palestine.
because it’s primarily people under the age of 25. And a very small voter demographic, maybe arabic people also, but arabic people are decidedly biased against israel for obvious reasons.
She also refused to let a single Palestinian-American Democrat speak at the DNC.
i don’t know of any incidents regarding kamala, or her team publicly refusing the ability of a Palestinian to speak, but i could be wrong. If i had to guess, they prioritized big names and celebrities more than random people, which would generally track, following along with the general controversy surrounding the palestine issue, it’s probably the safest political bet they could make at the time.
That is prioritizing the genocide over the campaign
i don’t think this statement even makes sense in a semantic fashion, wouldn’t they stop promoting the campaign, and give like 300 billion dollars to israel instead?
they weren’t “pushing them away” the voter base was pulling away from the democratic base, if you aren’t aware of this because you don’t know any history prior to 2023, than you will be shocked to learn that the US has historically supported israel since it’s very creation. It’s literally an 80 year long history. The dems were doing nothing other than running on historical popular sentiment, which doesn’t seem to have changed significantly judging by the 75 million votes, and the additional polling that shows that support for palestine is mostly among the younger voters. (if they even vote at all) I’m also not convinced that it was a significant portion of the population to the point where you need to worry about explicitly including them. They didn’t specifically cosy up the black voter base, or hispanic voter base, they just ran on policy, and they still voted for them.
you can make that argument all you want, but at the end of the something as controversial as the israel palestine issue (which is definitionally controversial otherwise we would all be in agreement, and it wouldn’t be controversial at all.) is more than likely going to harm the voter turnout, especially among the older demographics who are more willing to support this kind of rhetoric anyway. They likely believed it was more worthwhile to target the existing, known reliable voter base as much as possible, over people who were between the ages of 20-25 and were in college.
And reminder here, they didn’t win, they knew they weren’t winning, they knew they needed more voters and they pushed people away anyway
by 2 million votes. Electorally is a different story, but that’s irrelevant, please show me these concrete figures you must be referencing demonstrating AT LEAST 2 million voters who would’ve reliably voted for kamala prior to the israel palestine issue (before kamala was even running in the first place) who wouldn’t vote for kamala, after the campaign.
I’m aware that there were like, at least 30 people in michigan who cared enough, but im pretty sure michigan went red anyway. I think there were like, 12 people in california that cared? Idk, california is weird. I literally only remember one instance of this being a concern ever, and it was with michigan voters. This really just doesn’t seem like a demographic problem to me at all.
You can, so long as you acknowledge that them taking an anti Israel stance would most likely also lead to Trump due to other democrats feeling alienated, and thus, a Trump administration that will do even more genocide.
The sad truth just seems to be that not even among democrats that position is a majority. No matter what you voted for, it would most likely not have changed that. The US needs like 20-40 years of progressive change before the majority is ready to take on such positions, and the way to ensure that timeline becomes longer and longer, is by making choices that undercut even small steps there.
Don’t vote for the lesser evil, vote for the path towards that eventual US where your opinion is held by the majority.
unless voting for the lesser evil is that path that leads to that point. Because otherwise you’re stuck voting third party, which is a meme. Or not voting at all, and look where that has gotten us thus far lmao.
Been trying that for decades and it hasn’t worked.
ok great news, you can like, do political ground work, today, for free even. Just go outside and talk to people, im sure there are even organizations that will assist you and provide you material to go and do it for them. It’s not hard.
i mean, that’s one option. Too bad you don’t like, interact with people regularly or something. There’s no data or research that suggests that you can influence the opinion of people by simply talking to them.
It’s indeed a shame that the Dems regressed on that issue, and that in the current system you have no alternative choice that can actually win, but sometimes holding a line is all you can do as a single person. The propaganda that the republicans are producing is exactly designed to make sure your position never holds a majority, as with the right stimulation, most people can be made to believe that being pro-war makes you a patriot and a ‘true’ American. And they’ve been winning for a long time on that front too.
You can’t vote that propaganda away completely with the current democrats, that’s true as well. But it’s incredibly hard to resist when that propaganda is entangled and mixed in with staying informed about the government and society. Things aren’t lost, but if they were hard to impossible before, it didn’t make it any easier like this, even progressive minds can be taught to reject progressiveness, so long as you get to them early and overwhelmingly enough.
How bout the fact that the Biden/Harris admin absolutely refused under any circumstances whatsoever to do their number one job of defending the country against domestic threats and a criminal regime? …and even used notorious opposition party members are their mascots?
I didn’t say her campaign was good. But the choice was obvious. Either make things at home better while avoiding escalation around the world, or make things at home substantially worse while also escalating conflicts around the world including in Gaza.
Harris could’ve just stood there and said “I’m not Trump” and I would say the exact same thing about the idiots that couldn’t bother to vote for her.
It was. And it was also everyone else’s top priority that had any common sense. Because most of us with properly functioning brains didn’t hold their vote hostage over things they didn’t give a shit about a year ago. Also- most people saw what was coming from a mile away, and weren’t smug entitled assholes they felt no obligation to participate. They weren’t irresponsible and careless children that would just pretend to be victims alongside everyone else once the smoke clears-
So disingenuous. The DNC targeted voters that don’t even exist. Their strategy on the economy was to gaslight voters and tell them that nothing would change from the president who had a 38% approval rating. A president who spent 4 years yelling at then that everything was fine in the middle of a housing crisis with record inflation.
The whining about “unfair” criticism is unbelievable. Give me a break. The Democratic leadership is completely out of touch with voters. Kamala never should’ve let them run her campaign.
So disingenuous. The DNC targeted voters that don’t even exist.
and yet people went to the rallies? People were excited about the election, people felt good until it happened. And then everybody flipped like a switch and went edgy teen “i’m going to do something really bad” mode immediately after.
Their strategy on the economy was to gaslight voters and tell them that nothing would change from the president who had a 38% approval rating.
which to be fair, was accurate, and is true, all of their claims are factually correct, the problem is that voters are stupid, and politicians struggle to get this point across to their idiot supporter base appropriately for some reason. The consumers tend to feel the effects of a recession, in a lagged period. Think about covid, not many people struggled through covid, it was easier than most people thought it would be, it’s the inflation that happens after that really causes problems. The economy tends to do significantly better through these periods of inflation, which is why the inflation happens. To stem the growth to more reasonable levels. Otherwise you have some really funny shit happen.
that nothing would change from the president who had a 38% approval rating.
find me any evidence of approval rating meaning literally anything. Please.
A president who spent 4 years yelling at then that everything was fine in the middle of a housing crisis with record inflation.
the record inflation happened after covid, at the end of the four year term, nobody should’ve been surprised by this, it was an established and expected thing that was going to happen, but for some reason everybody now pretends like inflation never should’ve happened, because covid “wasn’t that bad actually” even though it was a literal failure of the global shipping industry. Of course the inflation is going to be pretty bad, that’s literally how Keynesian economics work.
The whining about “unfair” criticism is unbelievable. Give me a break. The Democratic leadership is completely out of touch with voters.
there is argument to be made about the DNC being out of touch, and just generally incompetent. However people mostly just like to bitch and yell I.E. your comment, rather than do anything to actually fix the fucking issue, and i guess hoping for a golden goose to show up and suddenly fix everything, even though that’s literally not how this works, and we BOTH know this. We ALL know this.
BUT FOR SOME REASON WE CHOOSE TO IGNORE IT WHEN IT’S MOST CONVENIENT.
edit: the housing crisis was in part instated by trump admin era tariffs on canadian lumber? Literally has nothing to do with that admin.
you are absolutely welcome to complain, however i would advise you to complain about actual real issues, rather than “black hole issues” like “The DNC didn’t personally target me and now i feel left out” because let’s be honest, nobody fucking cares. We have problems to be solving, not shit to be moping over.
Can I complain about the fact that the Biden/Harris admin prioritized continuing a genocide over beating Trump?
uh, no? These are literally two irrelevant concepts.
If you want to complain about the fact that the biden/harris admin have less than desirable stances on the israel/palestine problem, by all means do that. But i don’t see how this is relevant to anything to do with beating trump. Because the statistics literally show that 75 million people voted for kamala harris this election. to the 77 million who voted for trump. Could that specific issue push her over the edge? Maybe, maybe not. It’s impossible to know unless you do incredibly in depth study on it.
This is literally the meme of “if only it wasn’t slightly too cold for me to comfortably go on a run right now, otherwise i would totally be taking care of my physical fitness, instead i will do nothing.”
https://lemmy.ml/post/25756796?scrollToComments=true
Harris purposely ignored and pushed away parts of her base that cared about Palestine. She also refused to let a single Palestinian-American Democrat speak at the DNC.
That is prioritizing the genocide over the campaign
because it’s primarily people under the age of 25. And a very small voter demographic, maybe arabic people also, but arabic people are decidedly biased against israel for obvious reasons.
i don’t know of any incidents regarding kamala, or her team publicly refusing the ability of a Palestinian to speak, but i could be wrong. If i had to guess, they prioritized big names and celebrities more than random people, which would generally track, following along with the general controversy surrounding the palestine issue, it’s probably the safest political bet they could make at the time.
i don’t think this statement even makes sense in a semantic fashion, wouldn’t they stop promoting the campaign, and give like 300 billion dollars to israel instead?
Purposely pushing away any voters (especially parts of your base) during an election is a crazy choice if you want to win
And reminder here, they didn’t win, they knew they weren’t winning, they knew they needed more voters and they pushed people away anyway
they weren’t “pushing them away” the voter base was pulling away from the democratic base, if you aren’t aware of this because you don’t know any history prior to 2023, than you will be shocked to learn that the US has historically supported israel since it’s very creation. It’s literally an 80 year long history. The dems were doing nothing other than running on historical popular sentiment, which doesn’t seem to have changed significantly judging by the 75 million votes, and the additional polling that shows that support for palestine is mostly among the younger voters. (if they even vote at all) I’m also not convinced that it was a significant portion of the population to the point where you need to worry about explicitly including them. They didn’t specifically cosy up the black voter base, or hispanic voter base, they just ran on policy, and they still voted for them.
you can make that argument all you want, but at the end of the something as controversial as the israel palestine issue (which is definitionally controversial otherwise we would all be in agreement, and it wouldn’t be controversial at all.) is more than likely going to harm the voter turnout, especially among the older demographics who are more willing to support this kind of rhetoric anyway. They likely believed it was more worthwhile to target the existing, known reliable voter base as much as possible, over people who were between the ages of 20-25 and were in college.
by 2 million votes. Electorally is a different story, but that’s irrelevant, please show me these concrete figures you must be referencing demonstrating AT LEAST 2 million voters who would’ve reliably voted for kamala prior to the israel palestine issue (before kamala was even running in the first place) who wouldn’t vote for kamala, after the campaign.
I’m aware that there were like, at least 30 people in michigan who cared enough, but im pretty sure michigan went red anyway. I think there were like, 12 people in california that cared? Idk, california is weird. I literally only remember one instance of this being a concern ever, and it was with michigan voters. This really just doesn’t seem like a demographic problem to me at all.
You can, so long as you acknowledge that them taking an anti Israel stance would most likely also lead to Trump due to other democrats feeling alienated, and thus, a Trump administration that will do even more genocide.
The sad truth just seems to be that not even among democrats that position is a majority. No matter what you voted for, it would most likely not have changed that. The US needs like 20-40 years of progressive change before the majority is ready to take on such positions, and the way to ensure that timeline becomes longer and longer, is by making choices that undercut even small steps there.
Don’t vote for the lesser evil, vote for the path towards that eventual US where your opinion is held by the majority.
unless voting for the lesser evil is that path that leads to that point. Because otherwise you’re stuck voting third party, which is a meme. Or not voting at all, and look where that has gotten us thus far lmao.
Voting for the lesser evil has also gotten us here
yeah and driving cars gets people into fatal auto accidents, great statement.
Been trying that for decades and it hasn’t worked.
The only reason I started voting for the Dems in the first place was because they were anti-war, now they are pro-war so things have moved backwards
ok great news, you can like, do political ground work, today, for free even. Just go outside and talk to people, im sure there are even organizations that will assist you and provide you material to go and do it for them. It’s not hard.
The money is on the side of pro-war politics, this isn’t about what 1 person is capable of its a systemic problem
man i wonder how you could possibly go about deterring that mechanism, man i sure wonder.
You’re right, I’ll just become a billionaire, no prob
i mean, that’s one option. Too bad you don’t like, interact with people regularly or something. There’s no data or research that suggests that you can influence the opinion of people by simply talking to them.
It’s indeed a shame that the Dems regressed on that issue, and that in the current system you have no alternative choice that can actually win, but sometimes holding a line is all you can do as a single person. The propaganda that the republicans are producing is exactly designed to make sure your position never holds a majority, as with the right stimulation, most people can be made to believe that being pro-war makes you a patriot and a ‘true’ American. And they’ve been winning for a long time on that front too.
You can’t vote that propaganda away completely with the current democrats, that’s true as well. But it’s incredibly hard to resist when that propaganda is entangled and mixed in with staying informed about the government and society. Things aren’t lost, but if they were hard to impossible before, it didn’t make it any easier like this, even progressive minds can be taught to reject progressiveness, so long as you get to them early and overwhelmingly enough.
True, this is an evil country. USA delenda est
You could have if Trump was going to actually end the genocide instead of explicitly saying he was going to make it even worse.
How bout the fact that the Biden/Harris admin absolutely refused under any circumstances whatsoever to do their number one job of defending the country against domestic threats and a criminal regime? …and even used notorious opposition party members are their mascots?
I didn’t say her campaign was good. But the choice was obvious. Either make things at home better while avoiding escalation around the world, or make things at home substantially worse while also escalating conflicts around the world including in Gaza.
Harris could’ve just stood there and said “I’m not Trump” and I would say the exact same thing about the idiots that couldn’t bother to vote for her.
No.
Why not? Shouldn’t beating trump have been their top priority?
It was. And it was also everyone else’s top priority that had any common sense. Because most of us with properly functioning brains didn’t hold their vote hostage over things they didn’t give a shit about a year ago. Also- most people saw what was coming from a mile away, and weren’t smug entitled assholes they felt no obligation to participate. They weren’t irresponsible and careless children that would just pretend to be victims alongside everyone else once the smoke clears-
as I predicted they would.
If beating trump was their top priority why didn’t they listen to their base who were against the genocide? https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx
News flash genius: EVERYONE is against genocide. You’re not part of some special grassroots movement of people that figured something out.
It’s just that there rest of us aren’t smug entitled children that have no idea how politics work.
The Dems clearly don’t know how politics work since they lost everything
Try and contain your drool when you say that next time, подставное лицо.
So disingenuous. The DNC targeted voters that don’t even exist. Their strategy on the economy was to gaslight voters and tell them that nothing would change from the president who had a 38% approval rating. A president who spent 4 years yelling at then that everything was fine in the middle of a housing crisis with record inflation.
The whining about “unfair” criticism is unbelievable. Give me a break. The Democratic leadership is completely out of touch with voters. Kamala never should’ve let them run her campaign.
and yet people went to the rallies? People were excited about the election, people felt good until it happened. And then everybody flipped like a switch and went edgy teen “i’m going to do something really bad” mode immediately after.
which to be fair, was accurate, and is true, all of their claims are factually correct, the problem is that voters are stupid, and politicians struggle to get this point across to their idiot supporter base appropriately for some reason. The consumers tend to feel the effects of a recession, in a lagged period. Think about covid, not many people struggled through covid, it was easier than most people thought it would be, it’s the inflation that happens after that really causes problems. The economy tends to do significantly better through these periods of inflation, which is why the inflation happens. To stem the growth to more reasonable levels. Otherwise you have some really funny shit happen.
find me any evidence of approval rating meaning literally anything. Please.
the record inflation happened after covid, at the end of the four year term, nobody should’ve been surprised by this, it was an established and expected thing that was going to happen, but for some reason everybody now pretends like inflation never should’ve happened, because covid “wasn’t that bad actually” even though it was a literal failure of the global shipping industry. Of course the inflation is going to be pretty bad, that’s literally how Keynesian economics work.
there is argument to be made about the DNC being out of touch, and just generally incompetent. However people mostly just like to bitch and yell I.E. your comment, rather than do anything to actually fix the fucking issue, and i guess hoping for a golden goose to show up and suddenly fix everything, even though that’s literally not how this works, and we BOTH know this. We ALL know this.
BUT FOR SOME REASON WE CHOOSE TO IGNORE IT WHEN IT’S MOST CONVENIENT.
edit: the housing crisis was in part instated by trump admin era tariffs on canadian lumber? Literally has nothing to do with that admin.