• Flumsy@feddit.de
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    1 year ago

    If you say you are right to censor your worst enemys then the Nazis were logically also right to censor the opinions of the people THEY hated the most…

    Supporting only certain peoples freedom of speech is the definition of censorship…

      • Flumsy@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        Everyone’s OPINION has to be tolerated. If you dont tolerate the people you deem “the intolerant” then those people will see you as intolerant (against them) aswell. According to you, they would then be right not not tolerate you (as “the intolerant” that doesnt tolerate them).

        As long as they dont take away from anybody else’s freedom (and by just stating one’s opinion one doesnt do that) it has to be tolerated, otherwise it is censorship.

        • howrar@lemmy.ca
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          11 months ago

          So if you don’t tolerate the intolerant, then they will be intolerant? I don’t follow this logic.

          • Flumsy@feddit.de
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            11 months ago

            Not tolerating someone (“the intolerant”) makes you, to a certain extent, intolerant yourself. According to your own logic, they then should not tolerate you (the shouldn’t “tolerate the intolerant”).

            Essentially, who is “intolerant” depends on your subjective opinion and cannot be objectively determimed, except if that person accepts all voices to be heard, in that case we could say they are very much tolerant. In any other case, it depends on your opinion.

            • howrar@lemmy.ca
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              11 months ago

              It’s similar to the concept of being an outlaw. If you decide to break the laws, then laws no longer apply to you, including those that serve to protect you. If you do not tolerate, then you do not get the protections of tolerance.

          • Flumsy@feddit.de
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            11 months ago

            I have to assume that you are a Nazi yourself

            (Wrong). Its interesting that you think that just because I argued everyones opinion should be allowed.

              • Flumsy@feddit.de
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                11 months ago

                Start arguing for Marxists to have their own shows on Fox News and AM radio and I will recant

                I dont care for US shows though if FoxNews and AM Radio are private companies, they can IMO do what they want

                yet only THEY are complaining about censorship. This is how I have determined that you are a Nazi

                Im not complaining about censorship, there is nothing that is currently bothering me, Im just arguing for the principle of a general non-exclusive freedom of expression. For absolutely everyone.

              • Flumsy@feddit.de
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                11 months ago

                What is it that you want to say that you think is being censored?

                Im not arguing for a specific thing not to be censored, Im arguing that everyone should have the freedom of expression, no matter their political views. That is a matter of principle.

        • 520@kbin.social
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          11 months ago

          Why must person A tolerate person B’s belief that person A should not have the right to life and liberty?

          You can call it an opinion all you like, but the truth is that opinions inevitably become actions.

      • Flumsy@feddit.de
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        11 months ago

        Killing and enslaving are both means to do something, not the actual reason itself. If any person with a different political view wanted to do the same, it would be just as bad. Everyones opinion should be allowed.

          • Flumsy@feddit.de
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            11 months ago

            Killing and enslaving should not be allowed and should be avoided at all cost.

            The point is, however, if (lets say) a communist killed and enslaved people, should that mean that communist views should be censored in the future? (No! IMO)

            Killing and enslaving people are terrible and unacceptable ways of pushing one’s own ideals. It does not make the actual opinion itself invalid though.

    • WaxedWookie@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      This stuff is a social contract - if people are free to break the social contract and be intolerant or fuck with peoples’ freedoms, it harms peoples’ freedom to tolerate that behaviour.

      Your argument is akin to saying that using force to stop someone that’s currently committing a mass shooting justifies that mass shooting - it’s moronic.