I would be here all night if I asked the Lemmy crowd every question I had, but one thing that always has stood out to me is what’s on the tin. Call me one of those childfree peoples for asking it how I did (note ahead of time that I do not judge people who have kids, I just find the alternative better), but it’s a topic I’ve always been in-tune to. It’s noble if you ask me, and instinctively, I make a large mental note whenever it happens, when it’s common amongst a group of people, etc. This shouldn’t be seen as that unusual, it’s just a good gesture and many would be expressing this up here if they have the incentive to.
That said, I noticed a deterence when it comes to “vegans” and “communists” (I put these in quotes to denote a broader category, not really to express a stance). Adoption is not something you really hear amongst conversations about the latter. They’re sometimes stereotypically associated with orphanages but that’s as far as things go. I would challenge people to find texts from such a nation that said something along the lines of “and then that child was adopted”. It’s like it doesn’t happen. Meanwhile, we’re “implied” (without it being clarified) that “vegan culture” is at odds with “adoption culture”. And the people I ask of are unique in that there really is no avoidance otherwise, you could go to any group of people, nationwise/identitywise, and they’ll have normal-to-idolizing opinions on the matter, with it being common to find clerical stories pertaining to it. I myself raise an eyebrow at this, especially with the way certain countries deal with the issue, through exportation and facilities and whatnot.
Not one to turn down an opportunity to ask/address everything in one fell swoop, I wanted to ask many of you due to experience, is there a reason or is it just not something that culturally comes to mind?
What does being vegan have anything to do with adoption?
It’s a matter of contrast, not comparison.
Have you never been to a vegan/childfree subreddit and see someone belittle the other group?
Vegan slash childfree subreddit? One of those things is definitely more relevant to opinions about adoption than the other
The slash isn’t meant to imply there are any subreddits that specialize in both simultaneously.
I’m part of a few vegan discords and pretty much every vegan I’ve talked to is heavily pro adoption if you’re going to have children. It doesn’t come up often because we’re generally more focused on the welfare other animals, but I haven’t heard anyone be anti-adoption. I think giving needy children a loving home is a positive thing.
but I haven’t heard anyone be anti-adoption.
Within that may be some miscommunication, as in my experience it’s always been like rival schools of ethics.
Do you know what a vegan is
Someone who swears off animal products, right?
Vegan communist heee and im genuinely trying but i dont understand what you’re asking. Are you saying you think vegans and communists oppose adoption? Because i dont think ive ever heard anyone from either group make a stance against adoption. Ive heard calls for reforms to the adoption and foster system but never anyone opposing the idea of adoption
To lead up to that one way, favoritism towards adoption typically comes from the childfree crowd, which I am in a mild sense but in a way that isn’t wholly why I am more fixated on it, and they and the two groups often clash if you look them up, not so much the latter one as they’re a spectrum but in a sense that they tend to have a different method. Adoption being one of those things where if you’re in one of the more spiritual cultures it becomes like a trope, when you then look at nations that took advice from Marx, you notice a silence on the issue (save for discussions about orphanages), and it doesn’t help many such nations have a reputation for exporting their children to other countries or having a high regard in blood relations.
Admittedly the tipping point that inspired me to ask was the fact that I myself live in an adoption-heavy culture that Marx predicted will warm up to Marxism, and I’ve begun to wonder what will happen to that part of my culture if and when that happens. That and possibly the fact that this is Lemmy’s very first childfree discussion to my knowledge, despite its expertise in other ethical fields.
I live in a country that is both Buddhist (so vegetarianism is fairly common, although veganism is seen as some weird foreign thing) and nominally communist.
Adoption is fairly common and discussions around it are also common. I know several people who were adopted and talk about it fairly casually, e.g. there is no stigma.
(we also have orphanages, often run by monks)
What about outside of orphanages? Just an orphanage thing or is it also a legal guardian thing?
Genuinely this would be the first I’ve heard of this (most discussions around it revolve around other countries adopting those people).
Sure. Both parents die, neighbors / other family / friends might take you in. They might do this formally or informally (e.g. legally adopt you, or just raise you without doing the paperwork), to give you a better life than in an orphanage. Or maybe some aunt or uncle can’t have kids, but wanted to. It’s not that uncommon, I’ve met a few people in this category.
Vietnam has had a fairly turbulent history until fairly recently (quite an understatement). I don’t have many stories from those less peaceful times (my ancestors here are through marriage), but my impression is that it’s the sort of situation where adoption would have had to happen pretty often.
Oh one tangential tech story : You know all those scammy blockchain “projects”? Boy, they made a lot of t-shirts in Vietnam. A lot of the leftovers made their way to orphanages (a side effect of the economics of manufacturing is you always have extra, often containing nonsense text), so it was pretty common to see orphans with Bitcoin-whatever t-shirts for a while. So at least one OK thing came out of that technology.
This does clear up a lot of ideas I had. Actually, the “or just raise you without doing the paperwork” part makes it more appealing than my country/state when it comes to this. Paperwork didn’t always exist here but now it’s so entangled in everything that nothing happens without someone having to be involved.
I don’t know how hard adoption paperwork is here to be honest!
However culturally, I find we have a somewhat of an aversion to getting lawyers or filling out official forms, or waiting. I’m not sure why this is, but it might tie in to old-fashioned ideas about pride, honor, and respect. So a lot of things have ‘no paperwork’, and when it finally needs to be sorted out, tempers flare and you’ve got a blood feud on your hands.
I don’t know that there’s a “vegan culture” but I’m vegan, and communist, and I don’t see why that would be at odds with adoption.
I mean, I can’t speak for vegans because I haven’t really experienced what you’re talking about.
But with communists- especially online keyboard warrior communists- there’s a big attitude of “someone else will do it”
In that specific context or something else?
Okay, this is a strange question. There are a lot of moving parts involved in adoption which is, in my experience, universally accepted as noble, regardless of their political leaning and ethical eating choices. As a “so far left ya get your guns back” leftist and vegan, I presume that I fall into this category lol. There are some pretty glaring barriers to adoption for me: most adoption agencies are extremely selective, expensive and run by (mostly Christian groups.) Yes, there are children in foster care that you could potentially be able to adopt eventually. But there’s no certainty for anyone because the want to “reunite” biological families. But if you’re a gay witch, get fucked. Anecdotally, the people that I know that have adopted are religious nut jobs who treat their adopted children like domestic slaves while spoiling their “real” (their words, not mine 🤮) kids.
It’s more of a demographic/reception question than anything else. To everyone’s credit, I was surprised to learn a few things from the replies too. Your description sounds Western American/Canadian coming from someone in a place where spiritual-based agencies feel foreign (here their only god at the moment is money; your regional system would sadly be an upgrade), this being in contrast to many who seemed anti-preferential to it, and Lemmy was definitely the place to ask.
That’s fair, it’s kind of a niche group but lemmy would be the place to find us vegan/leftist/nerds lol. You were right about my description, American currently on the East Coast. I would love if we could upgrade to a completely secular system that includes psychological/emotional evaluation as well as financial application as well but I don’t see it happening anytime soon. I would love to adopt, but seeing as I’m unwilling to conform to Christian/heteronormativity standards I doubt I would get approved. It’s maybe a point of contention, which might be why I’ve never brought it up. I’m a damn good mom, but I’m not a “Republican Mother.”
