A federal judge in New York has ordered a vast unsealing of court documents in early 2024 that will make public the names of scores of Jeffrey Epstein's associates.
What a dumb move. All the names? The judge must know that people will not be smart enough to realize being on the list doesn’t mean you’re guilty of any crime. And it’s going to include victims? And people who might have just been included in an email?
I’m all for going after any criminals, but the problem with the outcome of this is that people are stupid and will think that inclusion on the list is the same as guilt. If we are also talking about people who fought successfully to have their names protected, it’s the rich people with means who won’t end up being made public.
If people were generally rational, this would be a good thing. But we’re not, and it seems that all sense is thrown out the window when it comes to Epstein.
This isn’t the “flew on his jet a few times” sort of associates, they were named in Giuffre’s court case.
The documents are part of a settled civil lawsuit alleging Epstein’s one-time paramour Ghislaine Maxwell facilitated the sexual abuse of Virginia Giuffre. Terms of the 2017 settlement were not disclosed.
You read part of the article, found something you think confirms your point (it does not) and then just stopped reading and thinking. Your issue is that you’re trying to be right, rather than trying to figure out what is right.
Also from the article:
Some of the names may simply have been included in depositions, email or legal documents.
And very explicitly
including Epstein’s victims, co-conspirators and innocent associates.
And also
The documents may not make clear why a certain individual became associated with Giuffre’s lawsuit,
As I said, people aren’t rational especially when it comes to Epstein. I appreciate you coming to me and demonstrating this for everyone.
I did read the article, I just I didn’t realise there was any article after all the jump, sorry. Hate it when sites do that.
But I still don’t buy that argument:
Judge Loretta Preska set the release for Jan. 1, giving anyone who objects to their documents becoming public time to object. Her ruling, though, said that since some of the individuals have given media interviews their names should not stay private.
Anyone who was named in those documents knows that they were named in those documents. It is unlikely to include as many innocents as you, or rather that journalist, seem to expect.
So, it’s the articles fault you didn’t read it because of something that happens extremely regularly in articles on the Internet. I’m wrong because of words you put in my mouth (I made no claims as to how many innocents are on the list). And you’re still right based on blind speculation.
It’s like you’re desperate to demonstrate my point for me.
I use to say “all extremes call for their opposite”. Since almost no information ever transpires about this whole scandal, the opposite is to release all the names to the public. It was to be expected. If we were trusting the justice system, this would seem inappropriate. But we have what we have, and making the whole list public is the only guarantee we have that not one of the “bad” guy can escape public’s attention. That of course, is valid only if the list is comprehensive and some names have not already been taken out.
It is indeed unfortunate that a lot of people who didn’t deserve and didn’t want any bad attention will get some.
I’m not saying I agree with the move. I’m saying it was to be expected.
making the whole list public is the only guarantee we have that not one of the “bad” guy can escape public’s attention.
Problem is that we don’t know if this is the case. It was noted in the article that some people were able to get their names retracted already and that she is leaving time for other people to plead their case. We all know, and this part of the reason for lack of trust in the legal system, that it favors the rich…so for all I know it’s rich likely guilty people who were able to pay for a lawyer to argue to get themselves removed, while some poor regular joe got caught up in an email for God knows what innocent reason, who is going to get harassed by the mindless mob.
Expected? Maybe. A bad move, almost certainly. People want blood when it comes to Epstein and when that happens rationality takes a back seat.
Saying “people are stupid so we shouldn’t have information” is so anti-humanist. Mob mentality. We have courts, why does public opinion matter? Its actually up to these important people to protect their image if its worth so much - but they don’t, they’re living their lives. Often with even less moral consideration than a regular guy.
And your call to wealth being a shield from danger? Bill gates seems to have lost his marriage over his involvement with Epstein. And that Prince guy in Britain, the rest of the royal family talks shit about him.
Well those crimes were ages ago. Who would prosecute them? Yeah, it won’t even go to trial. If they are guilty, which… Like you said, gonna be tough to prove. Rich people absolutely do better at every step of our legal system.
I’m talking about having their names released to the public, which people are going to basically equate to being a child molester, not being convicted of any crimes.
I think theres a good chance people will be more understanding about it. On Epstein’s original flight list, I xan only remember the names of people who visited a LOT. And even then, some of the people who only visited a few times turned out to be child molesters. So we can’t know for sure.
Somehow, as of lately, when people start to talk about rationality it is mostly about some bizarre stuff like bombing datacenters or living in a country that leads an aggressive war because you earn more.
Maybe it’s just a survivor bias and everyone is about bizarre stuff in these times, though
What a dumb move. All the names? The judge must know that people will not be smart enough to realize being on the list doesn’t mean you’re guilty of any crime. And it’s going to include victims? And people who might have just been included in an email?
I’m all for going after any criminals, but the problem with the outcome of this is that people are stupid and will think that inclusion on the list is the same as guilt. If we are also talking about people who fought successfully to have their names protected, it’s the rich people with means who won’t end up being made public.
If people were generally rational, this would be a good thing. But we’re not, and it seems that all sense is thrown out the window when it comes to Epstein.
This isn’t the “flew on his jet a few times” sort of associates, they were named in Giuffre’s court case.
Low effort version of this post:
Nice try, Andrew.
You read part of the article, found something you think confirms your point (it does not) and then just stopped reading and thinking. Your issue is that you’re trying to be right, rather than trying to figure out what is right.
Also from the article:
And very explicitly
And also
As I said, people aren’t rational especially when it comes to Epstein. I appreciate you coming to me and demonstrating this for everyone.
I did read the article, I just I didn’t realise there was any article after all the jump, sorry. Hate it when sites do that.
But I still don’t buy that argument:
Anyone who was named in those documents knows that they were named in those documents. It is unlikely to include as many innocents as you, or rather that journalist, seem to expect.
So, it’s the articles fault you didn’t read it because of something that happens extremely regularly in articles on the Internet. I’m wrong because of words you put in my mouth (I made no claims as to how many innocents are on the list). And you’re still right based on blind speculation.
It’s like you’re desperate to demonstrate my point for me.
Chill the fuck out.
You act like your first response was respectful and I should have responded in kind.
It’s okay to admit you were just wrong and I made a good point.
I use to say “all extremes call for their opposite”. Since almost no information ever transpires about this whole scandal, the opposite is to release all the names to the public. It was to be expected. If we were trusting the justice system, this would seem inappropriate. But we have what we have, and making the whole list public is the only guarantee we have that not one of the “bad” guy can escape public’s attention. That of course, is valid only if the list is comprehensive and some names have not already been taken out.
It is indeed unfortunate that a lot of people who didn’t deserve and didn’t want any bad attention will get some.
I’m not saying I agree with the move. I’m saying it was to be expected.
[Edit made: grammar & missing words]
Problem is that we don’t know if this is the case. It was noted in the article that some people were able to get their names retracted already and that she is leaving time for other people to plead their case. We all know, and this part of the reason for lack of trust in the legal system, that it favors the rich…so for all I know it’s rich likely guilty people who were able to pay for a lawyer to argue to get themselves removed, while some poor regular joe got caught up in an email for God knows what innocent reason, who is going to get harassed by the mindless mob.
Expected? Maybe. A bad move, almost certainly. People want blood when it comes to Epstein and when that happens rationality takes a back seat.
Saying “people are stupid so we shouldn’t have information” is so anti-humanist. Mob mentality. We have courts, why does public opinion matter? Its actually up to these important people to protect their image if its worth so much - but they don’t, they’re living their lives. Often with even less moral consideration than a regular guy.
And your call to wealth being a shield from danger? Bill gates seems to have lost his marriage over his involvement with Epstein. And that Prince guy in Britain, the rest of the royal family talks shit about him.
You’re really arguing with me that rich people fair better in the legal system?
Well those crimes were ages ago. Who would prosecute them? Yeah, it won’t even go to trial. If they are guilty, which… Like you said, gonna be tough to prove. Rich people absolutely do better at every step of our legal system.
I’m talking about having their names released to the public, which people are going to basically equate to being a child molester, not being convicted of any crimes.
I think theres a good chance people will be more understanding about it. On Epstein’s original flight list, I xan only remember the names of people who visited a LOT. And even then, some of the people who only visited a few times turned out to be child molesters. So we can’t know for sure.
Somehow, as of lately, when people start to talk about rationality it is mostly about some bizarre stuff like bombing datacenters or living in a country that leads an aggressive war because you earn more.
Maybe it’s just a survivor bias and everyone is about bizarre stuff in these times, though