I think it comes down to my level of proficiency with computers. I’m a photographer and an artist. However, I am above average tech literate but with absolutely no formal training compared to anyone in the computer sciences.
When I use a Mac or PC I am a power user and most people think of me as very tech inclined there. I used terminal or command prompt for commands that I have learned from Google for a specific tasks and can follow most guides and tutorials online, but I can’t come up with strings of commands creatively to fix a problem.
With Linux, there’s all these weird little problems that might be unique to me and looking them up is really difficult and when someone says “oh it’s easy. Use the terminal” as if this incredibly confusing thing that I have zero fundamental knowledge of can solve my problem. A genuinely feel illiterate when I use Linux. I can write sudo though 🤷♂️
I feel like saying “just use terminal” is like telling a kindergarten kid to just use creative writing, algebra and calculus. The fundamentals have not been taught yet, I have no idea what to do.
When I learned Mac or PC, I was shown how to use a mouse, I could read and just clicking around and opening things and reading help files let me intuitively learn on my own what to do. With Linux, this way of learning achieves nothing. Maybe I can turn wifi on and off assuming it works when I install it.
And then when an update breaks everything and I have to mess around and terminal for hours or days between doing actual work, It’s a nightmare. The only Linux thing I’ve managed to keep running for years on end is a Synology. I use it for a bit of backup things but thank goodness the OS updates and app updates all work. Nothing is broken and I barely touch the machine. It just grabs my files from the network and backs them up. You should have seen how shocked I was when I was trying to install something on docker and it took days for me to realize I just type the name of the thing I want and it grabbed it from the web and installed it automatically. I spent way too long trying to figure out how to grab the actual package files and open them like installing something via an MSI file in windows.
I am literally a Linux system admin, I bang on a command line interface for a living.
But I don’t use Linux at home, it’s just so much work. Every single thing is complicated. Last time I really tried in earnest to switch to a full Linux setup I was somewhere in the middle of a quick and easy 24-step process to get my webcam working, compiling the drivers from a modified source - and it was just a moment that broke me. Like, I’ve been working on this for an hour and I know I can do it but this is stuff I don’t even think about with windows.
So I broke down and bought Windows 10. It’s what I was trying to avoid, being a tight ass and didn’t want to buy an new OS.
I just don’t have the patience to troubleshoot every tiny thing like a big endeavor. I can, I just don’t want to. Everything I install, every peripheral I connect, it’s always a big deal getting it to work. Heck with that, not worth the trouble.
And here I use Windows and get into a blind rage within 5 minutes at how much fucking around there is getting devices working properly, and then they just drop out for no apparent reason.
Bullshit… I honestly can’t believe half the comments here… so much conjecture, straight up bullshit, or opinions outdated by like 10+ years. Yours is another… if you are actually familiar with Linux, there is absolutely no way that you would put up with the lack of control and customization, the god-awful workflows, and knowing there are ads and telemetry data being sent from Windows.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head… many of us grew up using Windows and/or Mac. Incremental changes to the OS aren’t a hindrance because of the baseline familiarity with the OS. Without OS familiarity, you’re going to feel like a fish out of water.
I’m getting better with linux, but I still daily drive on a Windows machine and I’m not sure if that will ever change.
The Windows command line is just so far removed from linux/mac terminal. Powershell is the closest Windows has out of the box really, and it’s a poweruser tool exclusively. Not to mention that by default, Powershell comes with aliases for common commandline inputs, so users are still not learning the correct commands and syntax.
This builds an ignorance problem, as you alluded to. I’ve done a lot in android and linux, but not enough where I can hammer away at a linux terminal and do anything but cause damage.
And I don’t think this is a “fault” in linux so to speak, but it’s an issue that needs to be overcome for most users to make the switch from something where the terminal was strictly and “optional” tool for them.
WSL? Windows for GUI programs and WSL for any CLI work. All my servers are Linux but I just ssh into them. Everything runs this way all nice and happy and I never ever touch PowerShell.
I think it comes down to my level of proficiency with computers. I’m a photographer and an artist. However, I am above average tech literate but with absolutely no formal training compared to anyone in the computer sciences.
When I use a Mac or PC I am a power user and most people think of me as very tech inclined there. I used terminal or command prompt for commands that I have learned from Google for a specific tasks and can follow most guides and tutorials online, but I can’t come up with strings of commands creatively to fix a problem.
With Linux, there’s all these weird little problems that might be unique to me and looking them up is really difficult and when someone says “oh it’s easy. Use the terminal” as if this incredibly confusing thing that I have zero fundamental knowledge of can solve my problem. A genuinely feel illiterate when I use Linux. I can write sudo though 🤷♂️
I feel like saying “just use terminal” is like telling a kindergarten kid to just use creative writing, algebra and calculus. The fundamentals have not been taught yet, I have no idea what to do.
When I learned Mac or PC, I was shown how to use a mouse, I could read and just clicking around and opening things and reading help files let me intuitively learn on my own what to do. With Linux, this way of learning achieves nothing. Maybe I can turn wifi on and off assuming it works when I install it.
And then when an update breaks everything and I have to mess around and terminal for hours or days between doing actual work, It’s a nightmare. The only Linux thing I’ve managed to keep running for years on end is a Synology. I use it for a bit of backup things but thank goodness the OS updates and app updates all work. Nothing is broken and I barely touch the machine. It just grabs my files from the network and backs them up. You should have seen how shocked I was when I was trying to install something on docker and it took days for me to realize I just type the name of the thing I want and it grabbed it from the web and installed it automatically. I spent way too long trying to figure out how to grab the actual package files and open them like installing something via an MSI file in windows.
I am literally a Linux system admin, I bang on a command line interface for a living.
But I don’t use Linux at home, it’s just so much work. Every single thing is complicated. Last time I really tried in earnest to switch to a full Linux setup I was somewhere in the middle of a quick and easy 24-step process to get my webcam working, compiling the drivers from a modified source - and it was just a moment that broke me. Like, I’ve been working on this for an hour and I know I can do it but this is stuff I don’t even think about with windows.
So I broke down and bought Windows 10. It’s what I was trying to avoid, being a tight ass and didn’t want to buy an new OS.
I just don’t have the patience to troubleshoot every tiny thing like a big endeavor. I can, I just don’t want to. Everything I install, every peripheral I connect, it’s always a big deal getting it to work. Heck with that, not worth the trouble.
And here I use Windows and get into a blind rage within 5 minutes at how much fucking around there is getting devices working properly, and then they just drop out for no apparent reason.
I don’t think anything like this has really been the case for a long time. How long ago was this?
Bullshit… I honestly can’t believe half the comments here… so much conjecture, straight up bullshit, or opinions outdated by like 10+ years. Yours is another… if you are actually familiar with Linux, there is absolutely no way that you would put up with the lack of control and customization, the god-awful workflows, and knowing there are ads and telemetry data being sent from Windows.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head… many of us grew up using Windows and/or Mac. Incremental changes to the OS aren’t a hindrance because of the baseline familiarity with the OS. Without OS familiarity, you’re going to feel like a fish out of water.
I’m getting better with linux, but I still daily drive on a Windows machine and I’m not sure if that will ever change.
The Windows command line is just so far removed from linux/mac terminal. Powershell is the closest Windows has out of the box really, and it’s a poweruser tool exclusively. Not to mention that by default, Powershell comes with aliases for common commandline inputs, so users are still not learning the correct commands and syntax.
This builds an ignorance problem, as you alluded to. I’ve done a lot in android and linux, but not enough where I can hammer away at a linux terminal and do anything but cause damage.
And I don’t think this is a “fault” in linux so to speak, but it’s an issue that needs to be overcome for most users to make the switch from something where the terminal was strictly and “optional” tool for them.
WSL? Windows for GUI programs and WSL for any CLI work. All my servers are Linux but I just ssh into them. Everything runs this way all nice and happy and I never ever touch PowerShell.