I’m not for banning any books, but with that said, Stephen King has some very fucked up books, like the one where the 10-year-olds have a spontaneous orgy at the end of It.
Technically it was a train, and they were experiencing a transcendent connection across time with their older selves, in a deliberately unsettling and transgressive scene meant to evoke the rawness of adolescence being laid bare before the worst cosmic horror – an eldritch carrion-eater who feeds on destroying the souls of children – as a way of reclaiming strength from vulnerability. At any rate, depiction is not endorsement.
But yes, considering how many actual adults misinterpret and mischaracterize that scene, I don’t recommend that particular book to children – not because they’ll be damaged by it, but because they won’t have the wisdom of age to understand it.
I read IT in the 8th grade and I didn’t really get the whole “transgressive scene meant to evoke the rawness of adolescence being laid bare before the worst cosmic horror” part, but I did understand that they were doing it as a way to ‘ground’ themselves to reality. And as a 13 year old boy, I thought it was kinda hot.
I always read it more acting as a final severing of their childhood to protect against It as it preferred to eat children. Not to mention as a more substantial blood pact as part of the ritual of chud to become metaphorically one being in the cosmic fight
Yeah. It was horrible but literally “need to grow up fast” as a kind of pseudo protection from the demon that is pennywise.
The entire book is a series of horrors. Another story that hits just as hard but in a different way is Needful Things. Definitely an apt metaphor for how people can be cajoled and manipulated into doing heinous things.
It’s definitely messed up just like the old vampire in the body of a 13 year old in the Diaries of a Vampire series.
It’s fair to have an issue with it but what about all the other books?
I bet I can guess what they don’t like about them and that isn’t it
I think high schoolers can handle that. But I guess when you’re in a state where the intention is to prevent young people from understanding sex, it starts to make sense.
I turned out mostly ok and was reading King well before 12. There were quite a few things I didn’t understand yet but it didn’t make me want to go out and assault people or something
I’m more concerned about the unrestricted access. Kids often have the emotional and logical understanding to read these works, but the point of the library is to have easy and unblocked access to the material, which topics featured in King’s books are heavy and it should be up to the parents to guide and help them read. Over 12/13 the kids should be able to pick for themselves bar pornographic material like that one book everyone always argues over.
I’m on the other end of the fence on this one. Knowledge shouldn’t be withheld due to arbitrary lines. If the parents aren’t tuned into what their children are reading or if the kid feels they must hide away what they’re reading, it’s indicative of more serious issues than books.
I say this with a kid who’s just starting to learn their letters and not at a point of reading on their own yet. If they want to pick up Ulysses or the silmarillion, I’m not stopping them. I will warn them they’ve chosen books that are very advanced and they will have more questions than answers while reading.
The problem here is you chose two non-controverisal books that have harder themes but are still mostly pg. I would argue most parents editor give their 10yo the silmarillion, but i highly doubt many would give them Game of Thrones.
‘Appropriate for children’ is what I have an issue with.
Withholding knowledge because of an arbitrary line is the antithesis of learning. Who gets to determine what is appropriate and for whom?
If my kid wants to read something with content that’s more mature, I’m ok with that. If I’ve read it, I’ll warn them of the more shaky bits that they’ll come across and what is and isn’t ok especially relative to their age and mentality.
If they bring home fifty shades, I’ll have a discussion about it with them and the concepts of consent as well as body autonomy and let them know that what happens in that book are not that.
Based on arrests, valid allegations and mountains of evidence…this is the party that spends an awful lot of time *thinking of children". And not in a safe way
Bullshit, most of his work is fine for anyone able to read it. If you think there are exception, make those specific exceptions …. Although most of us will likely disagree
Just going off what google says are King’s top 10 works:
The Shining - Violence, Mental Health, Psychosis
The Green Mile - Good for most kids that can understand the concept of racism.
Salem’s Lot - I have not read this one, but the internet says it’s gore heavy and horror filled.
Carrie - Gore
IT - Horror, Violence, and the sewer scene.
Pet Semetsry - Considered to be King’s most disturbing book.
Doctor Sleep- Shining sequel, still horror and violence.
11/22/63 - Good
The Stand - Violence, though better than the others.
The Dead Zone - Probably good, thougj has mature themes.
If 7/8 of the top 10 King works are not good for children, and King is the world’s foremost horror writer, it is safe to assume many of his works are not good for a younger audience without guidance and supervision. Obviously Stephen King has novels and stories suitable for young children, and each book should be looked at on their own not as a collective.
Which are not acceptable for children? This thread posits 12 as a cutoff, and I probably read most or all of those, that had been written at the time, before I was 12. I’m not seeing the concern
Yeah, Salems Lot is a great horror story … but it’s really no different than most vampire stories (ok, not the romantic bs stories). Just better written. Do we ban all vampires for kids under 12?
Dead Zone was one of my favorites as a child. Where else can you have a story about superpowers that includes limits and consequences, and is more cynical about how the world would react?
I thought Carrie was especially good for middle schoolers, or mature elementary. It’s mostly about bullying and angst, with a bit of cathartic getting even. It’s very relevant to their lives, but in a fantasy setting.
If a 12 year old can get through Green Mile, more power to them. I didn’t encounter that until I was older, and it was quite a slog to get through. The message is important and it was well written, but very much the opposite of action.
Yeah, pet Semetary is pretty disturbing. A kid hoping for a light read about puppies and kittens is going to get a shock. That one’s going to cause nightmares …… but there’s also a message of grief and loss of a beloved pet that they may relate to
Exactly, they are heavy themes and should be read with parental guidance. Also I got the ages mixed up I thought 12 was 5th/6th grade, turns out it’s 7th. Should be closer to 10.
Yea. There has to be some kind of balancing act. I don’t know what the right answer is. My wife is a teacher and we spar over this sometimes. I lean towards not banning but she claims the resources just aren’t there to vet and manage check-out. She concedes that if there were more resources and staff available then it wouldn’t be an issue.
This does bring up a good question though: Should access be
Completely unrestricted?
Somewhat restricted?
Heavily moderated?
The last time I posed this question I got dogpiled on Lemmy but I feel like people are really not thinking through the consequences. And if you can’t, then you should really pause and think about it.
There are pros and cons for each stance. I just don’t think it’s that simple as many here want it to be.
Edit : to be clear, Im not pro-banning. I’m just musing online hoping to hear other perspectives. I’m not offended if you down vote, but I was hoping to hear more your opinion.
This is just more bullshit to solve a problem that doesn’t exist. We should not be restricting books at all. Isn’t it always Republicans that talk about small government and that it should be parents protecting their kids? Well why can’t parents just attempt to be aware of what they’re child is reading?
What is the worst possible outcome of someone reading about sex? It’s just puritanical bullshit, and forcing everyone else to adhere to their beliefs. Would love to hear how this comports with “limited government”.
Nope. No other scenarios. You are free to choose what you read. Parents are free to filter what their children read until they come of age. End of conversation.
The burden of freedom is embracing the lack of safety it affords us.
Should a 7 year old victim of SA be exposed to a novel with graphic depictions of rape?
Should a 9 year old check out a book that gives instructions on making pipe bombs?
Are all parents ever-present in their children’s lives?
You really can’t spend two seconds thinking about this? I’m not asking you to compromise your abolutist position. I’m OK if you don’t shift on this position. I’m just asking you to reflect on why it’s not so simple.
Exposed to? Everyone has the Internet. Trying to stop exposure via books when the whole Internet is on their phone is silly and just causes more harm than good as groups of people get to decide what is ok and what isn’t.
So you’re saying because the internet is available school libraries should let 7 year Olds watch “A Serbian Film”. What is this logic? Do you understand what we’re even debating at this point? We’re talking about who has the onus to moderate school books.
So you’re saying because the internet is available school libraries should let 7 year Olds watch “A Serbian Film”. What is this logic
Nice straw man (with a little slippery slope mixed in). You know that’s not happening. Just stop.
In fact, I find it quite disturbing that this is where your mind went while discussing children’s reading materials… Nobody is thinking about a Serbian Film but you, dude.
Yes I do understand the topic… Just because I disagree doesn’t mean I don’t understand. That’s a bit close minded. We are talking about banning books in school, which is why it’s weird you brought up a snuff film.
Those are not even close to the same thing…
A book about a girl getting her first period is not some horrible experience that they need to be sheltered from. You’re putting a snuff film and a book about “my first period” in the same category…
Ok, lets say banning books is good. Who gets to decide what is banned and why? I could come up with reasons to ban nearly anything. But guess what, kids can still find it on the Internet. You’re not going to stop anything, you’re just going to shelter and isolate them. “It seems like all the books at school about relationships are girls and guys, not guy and guy. Something must be wrong with me.” That’s what you’re creating.
Your stance is to push your morals on others and only allow what you think is right. My stance is to allow parents to, you know, parent their kids. Prepare them for the real world. And I think we can do that without making them watch snuff films.
I think maybe you don’t understand how libraries work, particularly ones for children in public elementary schools. I’d be far more concerned about what kids in private schools are being exposed to. It’s not like sexually explicit books are just on display when you walk in. This is a non-issue and it’s insane that we even have to discuss this.
Also, kids use the Internet. If parents aren’t stopping them from reading sexually explicit books, what do you think they’re doing online? Should we remove all sexual content from the Internet (don’t disregard this question, Project 2025 ultimately wants to literally ban pornography. That’s real. JD Vance is that type of dude)?
The complete lack of an ability to see historical context and learn from past mistakes is disturbing. We’ve been through this, it is not something that needs to be rehashed. I’m so fucking tired of having to learn the same fucking lessons over and over again because people refuse to believe that maybe we do things a certain way for a reason. Maybe we started with the thing you want, and over time adjusted it again and again due to real world conditions (in some cases, like with regulations, people literally died), until we got where we are… Maybe we shouldn’t just throw all that knowledge and understanding away every ~50 years or whatever.
Unfortunately, when it comes to education and reading, it creates a negative feedback loop. Kids aren’t raised with the resources they need to think critically, and in turn, they grow up to allow politicians to pass laws banning the books they should have read. Rinse and repeat until you have an electorate that lets you get away with murder because everyone is so goddamn ignorant.
I expected people would bring up personal anecdotes to justify things.
I’m sorry about your experience. I’m glad you didn’t kill anyone. When we talk about policy, we’re talking about something that can be scaled. That’s why when we pass legislation it’s not helpful to look at single individual examples but at the broader picture.
I have nothing against kids exploring moral quandaries. We are talking about who takes the responsibility of delivering the content.
When my wife was a teacher, a 12 year old commitei suicide at home, which is insanely rare. Now, this kid was completely neglected at home. Should we allow kids to check out books that encourage suicide? Should the school district take on that liability? I know this is also an anecdotal example, but it’s interesting to explore the other perspective no?
Apologies, I didn’t mean to imply everything you read into that.
I did explore chemistry as a kid, with a chemistry set that could make energetic reactions. I did abuse that knowledge with household chemicals to create noise and violence. I was occasionally stupid with it, despite a grandfather who lost fingers. While there was some risk, it also furthered my love of science and engineering - it was a fun way of learning how stuff works.p and no one got hurt
I was trying to make the point that basic explosives knowledge exists and can’t un-exist. Ingredients for explosives are all around us. Trying to censor that is more likely to harm kids love of science, than it is to facilitate harm.
I sincerely think that access to books should never be restricted, I think even stuff like Mein Kampf should be available, just that for kids, there should be guidance to help digest it, both for Stephen King and Mein Kampf. So if you ask me, it should be completely unrestricted, but moderated, so if you check out Mein Kampf, you get a free mandatory lesson on the Holocaust.
I guess I got downvoted since one of those US dipshits did something stupid, and my opinion on it was more nuanced than “lol, idiot”.
The idea of this super moderated availability of books sounds super great when you write it out like that.
But there aren’t even enough teachers around to teach the bare minimum.
I don’t know how you imagine that would be manageable.
Side point. If Mein Kampf should be accessible, do you think so should all the hate speech and misinformation everyone tries to ban from social media ?
To your first point, I’m just saying that the problem politicians created by defunding education is not going to be solved by politicians banning books.
On the other thing, should it be available? Yes. Should it be blasted in your face at the expense of everything else without context? Hell no. Imagine if Fox News was only available with live fact-checking, it would not be nearly as effective.
I have a seven year old that reads at a fifth grade level (he was lucky he learned early). I can think of a miriad things worse than Mei kampf that I’m conflicted he should have access to. I’m all for unrestricted access, but what if he picks up a book with graphic depictions of rape? I don’t know that I want him confronting this at such a young age. What about kids with trauma?
These are just off the bat of my head. I can think of many more examples. That’s why when the unrestricted crowd comes in I sometimes scratch my head. Do you guys have children? It’s not so simple if you think about it for more than a few seconds. Again, I don’t have a right answer. I just wish people stopped and reflected a bit.
I honestly think it’s just a resource issue. If there are enough staffers and teachers around then there really should be a problem. The main counter my wife (a teacher) gave is that most school districts just don’t have the necessary staff to moderate/work with the kids.
I’m not for banning any books, but with that said, Stephen King has some very fucked up books, like the one where the 10-year-olds have a spontaneous orgy at the end of It.
Technically it was a train, and they were experiencing a transcendent connection across time with their older selves, in a deliberately unsettling and transgressive scene meant to evoke the rawness of adolescence being laid bare before the worst cosmic horror – an eldritch carrion-eater who feeds on destroying the souls of children – as a way of reclaiming strength from vulnerability. At any rate, depiction is not endorsement.
But yes, considering how many actual adults misinterpret and mischaracterize that scene, I don’t recommend that particular book to children – not because they’ll be damaged by it, but because they won’t have the wisdom of age to understand it.
This guy book reviews
I read IT in the 8th grade and I didn’t really get the whole “transgressive scene meant to evoke the rawness of adolescence being laid bare before the worst cosmic horror” part, but I did understand that they were doing it as a way to ‘ground’ themselves to reality. And as a 13 year old boy, I thought it was kinda hot.
I always read it more acting as a final severing of their childhood to protect against It as it preferred to eat children. Not to mention as a more substantial blood pact as part of the ritual of chud to become metaphorically one being in the cosmic fight
THIS IS WHAT WE CANNOT LET HAPPEN!
/s
Yeah. It was horrible but literally “need to grow up fast” as a kind of pseudo protection from the demon that is pennywise.
The entire book is a series of horrors. Another story that hits just as hard but in a different way is Needful Things. Definitely an apt metaphor for how people can be cajoled and manipulated into doing heinous things.
It’s definitely messed up just like the old vampire in the body of a 13 year old in the Diaries of a Vampire series.
It’s fair to have an issue with it but what about all the other books?
I bet I can guess what they don’t like about them and that isn’t it
Technically, it was Stephen King being high out of his mind on cocaine and booze. He’ll be the first to admit it.
Did he write It during his cocaine years? I know Cujo, Tommyknockers, and Maximum Overdrive were
The real turning point in the non cocaine years is Dreamcatcher. And that was morphine.
Which really explains Dreamcatcher.
Definitely. I’ve even read about him talking about that specific scene in It in the context of his addictions.
Where can I subscribe to your blog?
I think high schoolers can handle that. But I guess when you’re in a state where the intention is to prevent young people from understanding sex, it starts to make sense.
Now violence on the other hand… No problem there.
The books shouldn’t be banned in high schools for sure. I could see the argument for middle schools, and the books should never see anyone under 12.
I turned out mostly ok and was reading King well before 12. There were quite a few things I didn’t understand yet but it didn’t make me want to go out and assault people or something
I’m more concerned about the unrestricted access. Kids often have the emotional and logical understanding to read these works, but the point of the library is to have easy and unblocked access to the material, which topics featured in King’s books are heavy and it should be up to the parents to guide and help them read. Over 12/13 the kids should be able to pick for themselves bar pornographic material like that one book everyone always argues over.
I’m on the other end of the fence on this one. Knowledge shouldn’t be withheld due to arbitrary lines. If the parents aren’t tuned into what their children are reading or if the kid feels they must hide away what they’re reading, it’s indicative of more serious issues than books.
I say this with a kid who’s just starting to learn their letters and not at a point of reading on their own yet. If they want to pick up Ulysses or the silmarillion, I’m not stopping them. I will warn them they’ve chosen books that are very advanced and they will have more questions than answers while reading.
The problem here is you chose two non-controverisal books that have harder themes but are still mostly pg. I would argue most parents editor give their 10yo the silmarillion, but i highly doubt many would give them Game of Thrones.
I chose notoriously difficult books to get through. I’d have the same opinion for ‘the joy of sects’ and ‘the joy of sex’
Difficult to get through does not equal appropriate for children. A kid can read a hard book, plenty do.
‘Appropriate for children’ is what I have an issue with.
Withholding knowledge because of an arbitrary line is the antithesis of learning. Who gets to determine what is appropriate and for whom?
If my kid wants to read something with content that’s more mature, I’m ok with that. If I’ve read it, I’ll warn them of the more shaky bits that they’ll come across and what is and isn’t ok especially relative to their age and mentality.
If they bring home fifty shades, I’ll have a discussion about it with them and the concepts of consent as well as body autonomy and let them know that what happens in that book are not that.
Based on arrests, valid allegations and mountains of evidence…this is the party that spends an awful lot of time *thinking of children". And not in a safe way
Bullshit, most of his work is fine for anyone able to read it. If you think there are exception, make those specific exceptions …. Although most of us will likely disagree
Just going off what google says are King’s top 10 works:
The Shining - Violence, Mental Health, Psychosis
The Green Mile - Good for most kids that can understand the concept of racism.
Salem’s Lot - I have not read this one, but the internet says it’s gore heavy and horror filled.
Carrie - Gore
IT - Horror, Violence, and the sewer scene.
Pet Semetsry - Considered to be King’s most disturbing book.
Doctor Sleep- Shining sequel, still horror and violence.
11/22/63 - Good
The Stand - Violence, though better than the others.
The Dead Zone - Probably good, thougj has mature themes.
If 7/8 of the top 10 King works are not good for children, and King is the world’s foremost horror writer, it is safe to assume many of his works are not good for a younger audience without guidance and supervision. Obviously Stephen King has novels and stories suitable for young children, and each book should be looked at on their own not as a collective.
Which are not acceptable for children? This thread posits 12 as a cutoff, and I probably read most or all of those, that had been written at the time, before I was 12. I’m not seeing the concern
Yeah, Salems Lot is a great horror story … but it’s really no different than most vampire stories (ok, not the romantic bs stories). Just better written. Do we ban all vampires for kids under 12?
Dead Zone was one of my favorites as a child. Where else can you have a story about superpowers that includes limits and consequences, and is more cynical about how the world would react?
I thought Carrie was especially good for middle schoolers, or mature elementary. It’s mostly about bullying and angst, with a bit of cathartic getting even. It’s very relevant to their lives, but in a fantasy setting.
If a 12 year old can get through Green Mile, more power to them. I didn’t encounter that until I was older, and it was quite a slog to get through. The message is important and it was well written, but very much the opposite of action.
Yeah, pet Semetary is pretty disturbing. A kid hoping for a light read about puppies and kittens is going to get a shock. That one’s going to cause nightmares …… but there’s also a message of grief and loss of a beloved pet that they may relate to
Exactly, they are heavy themes and should be read with parental guidance. Also I got the ages mixed up I thought 12 was 5th/6th grade, turns out it’s 7th. Should be closer to 10.
Yea. There has to be some kind of balancing act. I don’t know what the right answer is. My wife is a teacher and we spar over this sometimes. I lean towards not banning but she claims the resources just aren’t there to vet and manage check-out. She concedes that if there were more resources and staff available then it wouldn’t be an issue.
This does bring up a good question though: Should access be
The last time I posed this question I got dogpiled on Lemmy but I feel like people are really not thinking through the consequences. And if you can’t, then you should really pause and think about it.
There are pros and cons for each stance. I just don’t think it’s that simple as many here want it to be.
Edit : to be clear, Im not pro-banning. I’m just musing online hoping to hear other perspectives. I’m not offended if you down vote, but I was hoping to hear more your opinion.
This is just more bullshit to solve a problem that doesn’t exist. We should not be restricting books at all. Isn’t it always Republicans that talk about small government and that it should be parents protecting their kids? Well why can’t parents just attempt to be aware of what they’re child is reading?
What is the worst possible outcome of someone reading about sex? It’s just puritanical bullshit, and forcing everyone else to adhere to their beliefs. Would love to hear how this comports with “limited government”.
I’m not a republican. I’m a soc-dem.
I was interested in exploring the various scenarios and having a conversation, but as usual -and in typical lemmy fashion- we went straight to labels.
You really think the only conversation around book bans revolves around some people that are prudish? There aren’t any other possible scenarios?
Nope. No other scenarios. You are free to choose what you read. Parents are free to filter what their children read until they come of age. End of conversation.
The burden of freedom is embracing the lack of safety it affords us.
Should a 7 year old victim of SA be exposed to a novel with graphic depictions of rape?
Should a 9 year old check out a book that gives instructions on making pipe bombs?
Are all parents ever-present in their children’s lives?
You really can’t spend two seconds thinking about this? I’m not asking you to compromise your abolutist position. I’m OK if you don’t shift on this position. I’m just asking you to reflect on why it’s not so simple.
Exposed to? Everyone has the Internet. Trying to stop exposure via books when the whole Internet is on their phone is silly and just causes more harm than good as groups of people get to decide what is ok and what isn’t.
So you’re saying because the internet is available school libraries should let 7 year Olds watch “A Serbian Film”. What is this logic? Do you understand what we’re even debating at this point? We’re talking about who has the onus to moderate school books.
Nice straw man (with a little slippery slope mixed in). You know that’s not happening. Just stop.
In fact, I find it quite disturbing that this is where your mind went while discussing children’s reading materials… Nobody is thinking about a Serbian Film but you, dude.
Yes I do understand the topic… Just because I disagree doesn’t mean I don’t understand. That’s a bit close minded. We are talking about banning books in school, which is why it’s weird you brought up a snuff film.
Those are not even close to the same thing… A book about a girl getting her first period is not some horrible experience that they need to be sheltered from. You’re putting a snuff film and a book about “my first period” in the same category…
Ok, lets say banning books is good. Who gets to decide what is banned and why? I could come up with reasons to ban nearly anything. But guess what, kids can still find it on the Internet. You’re not going to stop anything, you’re just going to shelter and isolate them. “It seems like all the books at school about relationships are girls and guys, not guy and guy. Something must be wrong with me.” That’s what you’re creating.
Your stance is to push your morals on others and only allow what you think is right. My stance is to allow parents to, you know, parent their kids. Prepare them for the real world. And I think we can do that without making them watch snuff films.
I think maybe you don’t understand how libraries work, particularly ones for children in public elementary schools. I’d be far more concerned about what kids in private schools are being exposed to. It’s not like sexually explicit books are just on display when you walk in. This is a non-issue and it’s insane that we even have to discuss this.
Also, kids use the Internet. If parents aren’t stopping them from reading sexually explicit books, what do you think they’re doing online? Should we remove all sexual content from the Internet (don’t disregard this question, Project 2025 ultimately wants to literally ban pornography. That’s real. JD Vance is that type of dude)?
The complete lack of an ability to see historical context and learn from past mistakes is disturbing. We’ve been through this, it is not something that needs to be rehashed. I’m so fucking tired of having to learn the same fucking lessons over and over again because people refuse to believe that maybe we do things a certain way for a reason. Maybe we started with the thing you want, and over time adjusted it again and again due to real world conditions (in some cases, like with regulations, people literally died), until we got where we are… Maybe we shouldn’t just throw all that knowledge and understanding away every ~50 years or whatever.
Unfortunately, when it comes to education and reading, it creates a negative feedback loop. Kids aren’t raised with the resources they need to think critically, and in turn, they grow up to allow politicians to pass laws banning the books they should have read. Rinse and repeat until you have an electorate that lets you get away with murder because everyone is so goddamn ignorant.
/rant
Yes. For some, it will help them process what happened. Hopefully they have an adult they can discuss it with
Yes. I did, and haven’t killed anyone yet. Overreaction to basic chemistry and physics stifles the engineer or creator in too many of us.
If a kid doesn’t have a trusted adult guiding them, being able to explore moral quandaries through books is even more important.
It’s simple
I expected people would bring up personal anecdotes to justify things.
I’m sorry about your experience. I’m glad you didn’t kill anyone. When we talk about policy, we’re talking about something that can be scaled. That’s why when we pass legislation it’s not helpful to look at single individual examples but at the broader picture.
I have nothing against kids exploring moral quandaries. We are talking about who takes the responsibility of delivering the content.
When my wife was a teacher, a 12 year old commitei suicide at home, which is insanely rare. Now, this kid was completely neglected at home. Should we allow kids to check out books that encourage suicide? Should the school district take on that liability? I know this is also an anecdotal example, but it’s interesting to explore the other perspective no?
Apologies, I didn’t mean to imply everything you read into that.
I did explore chemistry as a kid, with a chemistry set that could make energetic reactions. I did abuse that knowledge with household chemicals to create noise and violence. I was occasionally stupid with it, despite a grandfather who lost fingers. While there was some risk, it also furthered my love of science and engineering - it was a fun way of learning how stuff works.p and no one got hurt
I was trying to make the point that basic explosives knowledge exists and can’t un-exist. Ingredients for explosives are all around us. Trying to censor that is more likely to harm kids love of science, than it is to facilitate harm.
I sincerely think that access to books should never be restricted, I think even stuff like Mein Kampf should be available, just that for kids, there should be guidance to help digest it, both for Stephen King and Mein Kampf. So if you ask me, it should be completely unrestricted, but moderated, so if you check out Mein Kampf, you get a free mandatory lesson on the Holocaust.
I guess I got downvoted since one of those US dipshits did something stupid, and my opinion on it was more nuanced than “lol, idiot”.
The idea of this super moderated availability of books sounds super great when you write it out like that. But there aren’t even enough teachers around to teach the bare minimum. I don’t know how you imagine that would be manageable.
Side point. If Mein Kampf should be accessible, do you think so should all the hate speech and misinformation everyone tries to ban from social media ?
To your first point, I’m just saying that the problem politicians created by defunding education is not going to be solved by politicians banning books.
On the other thing, should it be available? Yes. Should it be blasted in your face at the expense of everything else without context? Hell no. Imagine if Fox News was only available with live fact-checking, it would not be nearly as effective.
I have a seven year old that reads at a fifth grade level (he was lucky he learned early). I can think of a miriad things worse than Mei kampf that I’m conflicted he should have access to. I’m all for unrestricted access, but what if he picks up a book with graphic depictions of rape? I don’t know that I want him confronting this at such a young age. What about kids with trauma?
These are just off the bat of my head. I can think of many more examples. That’s why when the unrestricted crowd comes in I sometimes scratch my head. Do you guys have children? It’s not so simple if you think about it for more than a few seconds. Again, I don’t have a right answer. I just wish people stopped and reflected a bit.
And yet librarians and teachers have handled this all along, much better than politicians are.
I honestly think it’s just a resource issue. If there are enough staffers and teachers around then there really should be a problem. The main counter my wife (a teacher) gave is that most school districts just don’t have the necessary staff to moderate/work with the kids.