I don’t. If you decided that blatant incompetence, fascism, sexism, racism, xenophobia, felonies, sexual assault, etc. were all the traits of a man that you vehemently support to be in charge of this country… if you want your political rivals deported, jailed or killed… you are fucking garbage. Fuck you. This isn’t 2016. There is no excuse anymore. Nobody is ignorant unless they are willfully ignorant. If you vote for Trump, you are either willfully ignoring all of these things and putting this monster in charge anyway because you cant stand to vote for an objectively wildly more competent and normal Democrat or just not vote, or, worse, you actively support these things. Either way, you are a fundamentally garbage human being.
I get it, the anger and spite, but you’re not running for president in a country where a portion of the population believes you should be saintly while your opponent spews vitriol any time he opens his mouth. Biden has nothing to lose by removing the gloves, but unfortunately, calling a rose a pig dipped in dog shit while hoping to appease the largest swath of voters is something Harris needs to shoulder. Biden should have never made those comments, at least not until after the election.
I feel the same as you, but we have the platform to voice those things anonymously and without repercussions.
Trump and the Republican party incites violence on a daily basis. He is running on mass deportations (which means concentration camps), using police and military to ‘deal with’ the ‘enemies within’ meaning US citizens, this is straight up Hitlarian. The just finished a Nazi rally at Madison Square Garden, where racism and violence was rampant, even more than in 1939.
Harris moving to the right by adoption right-wing framing on immigration, wanting to add a republican to her cabinet, campaigning with Liz Cheney, and aiming to appease Republican voters does not work. The Republican party is mask-off fascist, they are openly advocating for violence. They will demonize and call Kamala a violent radical communist regardless of her actual positions. Progressive policies are popular.
This double standard is bullshit and needs to be called out for exactly what it is by Harris and Media too, not just Biden. Harris and her campaign should be attacking Trump for his Fascist positions, on mass deportations, and women’s bodily autonomy, on LGBT+ rights, etc. You want republican voters to realize how fascist trump really is and distance themselves. Leaving this fascist behavior unchecked, it will just grow. The election is in like a week and the Democrats want to hug the Republican party when they desperately need to have a backbone and fight back and run on actual solutions.
Political views aren’t immutable characteristics and I literally cannot think of a better metric by which to judge people.
I’m with Biden on this one. If after all that Trump and his entire ecosystem of hate has said and done, if you still support them then you are indeed garbage.
Dementia has no filter. The old man said what he meant. Don’t treat him like a child and let him stand proudly by his words.
I see the ambiguity in Bidens statement, but it looks to me he meant the comedian, specifically the things the comedian said. " I don’t know the Puerto Rican that — that I know — or a Puerto Rico, where I’m fr- — in my home state of Delaware, they’re good, decent, honorable people. The only garbage I see floating out there is his supporter’s — his — his demonization of Latinos is unconscionable, and it’s un-American."
But the more important piece here is contrasting Harris with Trump, Harris addressed Biden’s remarks directly, Trump won’t address the racism directly. Harris is presidential, Trump is not.
I strongly disagree with Kamala Harris strongly disagreeing about this
Neoliberals like Harris, Clinton, etc. would fill a swimming pool with any voter to the left of Reagan just so that they could shout at a single conservative voter a mile away to let them know they could walk across said pool now rather than be asked to bear the inconvenience of walking around the edge… only for the conservative to ignore them… or even walk somewhere further out of the way just to spite the neoliberal.
They just never fucking learn.
When she wants the favor of Republicans, she can differ from the president.
When progressives are upset about Gaza, they can pound sand because she totally can’t differ from the president because reasons.
I don’t call them garbage. I call them traitors. That’s who the MAGA crowd is. A bunch of treacherous traitors.
Our founding fathers would’ve worked overtime, rallying and rounding up millions of these traitors to be drawn and quartered. Because, aligning with an obvious dictator wannabe isn’t bad enough, it’s the fact that they’re aligned with the values of a newfound Axis Party between Russia, North Korea and America (under Trump).
So, they’re traitors.
I’m fine if she plays softball on this. We on the other hand can call these fucks exactly what they are.
The deplorables comment was one of the nails in Hillary’s coffin. We can say these things, Harris can’t
lol, Hillary was cooked the moment she stepped in the ring. “Deplorables” was just a weirdly ivory-tower insult. She’d have gained more political ground calling them shitbags.
There’s one word I keep coming back to: indefensible. I don’t see how anyone could listen to Trump speak, see the effects of his policies, and understand his goals, and still think, “Yeah, that guy should be president.”
Senile
Felon
Liar
Rapist
Bigot
Kleptocrat
Insurrectionist
Fascist
Misogynist
Narcissist
Nepotist
Ignorantand those are just the things he’s admitted to out loud in front of a camera. Any one of those would immediately disqualify any other candidate, and there isn’t any argument to be made that he isn’t all of those things. Denial is a helluva drug, but to deny all of those things? The only conclusion is that his supporters share his “values” and that makes them as deplorable as he is.
It would be nice to live in a world where everyone called out the obvious corruption and treason of the Repub party, and by extension, its voters (who are garbage).
Brandon was right tho.
Nah, Brandon’s right. Repubs are garbage.
still “going high” playing by maques dequeenbury rules, when the other sides out here with switchblades taking kneecaps
She’s the candidate. Biden said that so that she could say this. He’s speaking truth, and she’s extending an olive branch. Normally, it would be the VP who says the blunt thing, but it has more juice coming from the sitting president. Trump would be doing the same thing, if they could trust Trump to say anything without going rogue and rambling something bigoted.
I doubt Biden planned that, I genuinely think he misspoke or failed to filter by accident. But I agree that that is how her campaign is considering and treating it. It got that opinion out there but allowed her the grace to walk it back.
Maybe. He is very old, and has always been prone to commit gaffes. But he’s not wrong.
It also demonstrates that Harris can disagree with Biden, to counter arguments of “why hasn’t she already done [thing campaign is promising] ?”
Maybe she could disagree with him on genocide.
Lemmy’s centrists don’t like that suggestion very much, do they?
Fucking shill more. Jfc, how much do you want Trump elected? Talk about garbage…
Seems to me like she can’t get elected with her position on Palestine. Maybe you are the Trump supporter.
No, she’s electable, but there are an awful lot of fucking morons doing their best to get Trump elected by using shitty arguments like the genocide that he outwardly supports. Truly anyone that actually believes not voting or voting for someone else is the right choice is amongst the absolute dumbest people. No critical thinking abilities. Strawman arguments. Closeted love for fascists like Trump. Actual domestic terrorists spreading information trying to hurt America.
Scum of the earth, really.
I mean, look at your response bruh:
No, she’s electable, but there are an awful lot of fucking morons doing their best to get Trump elected by using shitty arguments like the genocide that he outwardly supports. Truly anyone that actually believes not voting or voting for someone else is the right choice is amongst the absolute dumbest people. No critical thinking abilities. Strawman arguments. Closeted love for fascists like Trump. Actual domestic terrorists spreading information trying to hurt America.
This is just word salad with no critical analysis. You want to accuse others of no critical thinking skills but this is all you have to offer. The facts is that Harris supports the same genocide Trump supports. And its losing her the election. She had the opportunity to take a different tact; she chose the wrong side of the issue that is proving to be the deciding issue in this election. So you can circle jerk that everyones an idiot but you, but the reality is, Kamala chose this path, and all of the data we have, and I do mean all of it, is suggesting that she make a big fucking mistake by not distancing her self from this.
So we had the opportunity to move Kamala on this issue over the last couple of months. I mean, we we’re able to move Joe Biden to the back of the bus; moving Kamala should have been easy. But the reality is that she had enough sycophants with trump derangement syndrome willing to run cover for her that she didn’t feel she needed to. And so she didn’t feel the pressure to move her position on a deeply unpopular issue. And now she’s fucking stuck with it and is probably going to lose because of it.
So at the end of the day, if you were providing cover for Kamala on this shitty position of hers, YOU are to blame if Trump takes the white house. Our only option was to force the candidate to take a better position on a deeply unpopular position. If you defended her in that position, you OWN this Trump presidency, in the identical manner that those who were INSISTING that we needed to stick with Biden would have owned that L as well.
No. Two options, Trump or Kamala. Trump had shared his desire to increase the genocide. That’s wise than what’s currently happening and what Harris has said. I’m disgusted by what’s going on over there, but I also understand all of the other implications of this election. Making it about a single issue that neither candidate had publicly rebuked, and then being any voting in that is moronic.
You’re rhetoric is consistently anti Harris. You are effectively campaigning for Trump. It’s not word salad to reiterate that people that keep shilling for Trump and making strawman arguments are fucking idiots.
You do nothing but try your best to sway voters against Harris. Everyone sees it and calls you in your bullshit, but you double down. When everyone but the shittiest of people think that you’re wrong, maybe you should look at the company your keeping. But, if you’re cool supporting a rapist for president, keep up the good work.
You are the very reason Harris is struggling to win this election. A toxic, deranged, abusive, psychology. When she loses, we’ll be pointing at you.
You might point at me, but the test of us will know is the bigots and racists rallying for a rapist, some under the guide of, “but the genocide” ignoring the obvious fact that Trump is worse.
I’m not trying to dissuade people from voting for Harris. What good did you jump through to come to the conclusion that I am why she’s struggling? Lol. The backwards thinking in you is in-fucking-sane.
You: “Harris is bad and supports genocide. Literally the worst person ever”
Also you: “People that are out there supporting Harris despite her flaws are the reason she’s struggling”.
Do you read the words you regurgitate? Fuck what a dumb take…
I mean, she’s right. It’s not someone’s fault when they get brainwashed, it’s an environmental thing. If all you hear is xyz, then believing xyz is pretty reasonable. In our system, it becomes the job of the engaged citizenry to remedy this, which is doable.
Being brainwashed and indoctrinated is an explanation, not an excuse.
They are still causing harm and they are still at fault for that. We can just understand how they got that way.
Yeah, just because “hurt people hurt people” is true doesn’t mean it’s okay for them to hurt people.
I think understanding how they got that way is critical to the response to how to counter it. Are we trying to mitigate their damage, or are we trying to convince them to stop? After Tuesday, the priorities change, but right now it’s worth trying to win hearts and minds.
Yes. Explanation, not excuse.
It is still very much their fault. Because, as the various internet atheists (self included) love to point out: Most of their hate and bigotry is outright against the bible. So even in their echo chambers they had opportunities to think for themselves.
And yes, win hearts and minds. Hell, keep doing that after Tuesday because we are definitely looking at chaos for months. But NEVER excuse the hatred and bigotry. They are wrong. Their being wrong has actively stolen basic human rights from roughly half the country and their being wrong is working to steal human rights from even more people.
You have to keep in mind, conservativism is not an ideology. It’s a palatable version of narcissism that allows “conservatives” to defend whatever positions they happen to like with no ties to consistency or rationality.
There are no fundamentally conservative beliefs, just people who define their beliefs based on who they are and where they are standing at any given time. Low taxes for me, high for thee. Government spending on me, none for thee. Deregulation for me, suffocating anti-competitive requirements for thee. My God is good and true, your God is evil or nonsense. Conservatives get abortions when they want them. Conservatives illegally emigrate when it is convenient. Conservatives will say or do anything they believe will help them, and will attack anyone they perceive to be a threat. That’s all the explanation there is. They feel no need to excuse their abhorrent values, because they are justified by their own identity.
I am right because I am good because I exist and want to be right and good. If I am wrong, it is a temporary oversight which does not require that I re-evaluate my worldview. Everyone makes mistakes, and I am a good person for recognizing it.
The strategy for dealing with a conservative is the same as a narcissist. You cannot convince a narcissist that they are wrong. You can convince a narcissist that you are on their side, and that helping you helps them. This will only last as long as you are on their side.
Or you can ignore a narcissist’s arguments and simply oppose their efforts. You can keep them from obtaining more power, and prevent them from exerting any influence on your life. Set boundaries, hold them accountable, concede no ground, accept no bullshit.
Conservativism is not a political ideology, it is an innate defect of an immature mind. Many people grow out of it, but far too many never do. Conservatives are taught at a young age that they don’t have to become a better person, as long as they join the good team.
I am just going to say this one more time because I am quite certain you aren’t reading anything:
Explanation, not excuse.
What you listed is an explanation. That explains WHY people are assholes. That does not excuse them being an asshole. And it is incredibly important to understand that.
Because excusing the pure evil of what a “side of the aisle” is doing in favor of “coming together”? That is how we got into this fucking mess. We refused to actually codify abortion rights because we didn’t want to anger people and, as a result, roughly half the country lost basic human rights while they were eating lunch. We try to compromise on people’s fundamental right to exist which leads to the stupidity of “I guess I’ll only breathe every other day?”
Understand where people came from. Do not excuse the fucking evil they did. Because if the only way they will oppose outright fucking evil is if you give them a handy? Fuck 'em. They are monsters who will never actually concede and just want to force you to concede.
Because
Low taxes for me, high for thee. Government spending on me, none for thee. Deregulation for me, suffocating anti-competitive requirements for thee
sounds like an evil mother fucker to me. And you yourself acknowledge
You can convince a narcissist that you are on their side, and that helping you helps them. This will only last as long as you are on their side.
Any compromise with them is just enabling them. Explain to them why they are wrong. Point out what the magats are doing to them. But fuck any concessions. We did that for decades and just lose and lose and lose.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m saying you’re trying to push molasses up a sandy hill. Don’t waste your time telling them why they’re wrong, or that they’re wrong. Conservatives aren’t capable of changing the way they think. You can choose to try to work with a conservative by making them see how helping you helps them, or you can work without them. You win by avoiding them entirely, because if they can’t beat you, it’s enough for them to obstruct your progress.
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It is absolutely a grown voting age persons fault that they decided to become a Nazi because their father is a Nazi
No, not necessarily. A person is not responsible for traumas inflicted on them, nor the physiological fear-based adaptations that creates in their bodies. While we can blame them for not seeking treatment, we then have to consider our health care system.
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It’s not apologia to understand something. Understanding things allows us better opportunity to address root causes. If simply killing/imprisoning/suppressing them all worked, the AfD would not be an issue in Germany after WW2 and post-war reconstruction.
The AfD only exists and has power now because it was explicitly allowed to continue existing due to a (bullshit) court ruling that it wasn’t big enough at the time to constitute a threat. Your own example doesn’t even make sense because the AfD got where it is now exactly because they weren’t stamped out when they should’ve been.
The court order would have never been brought forward if the ideology had been successfully stamped out post-war. Ultimately, an idea cannot be forcibly destroyed though, only driven into hiding where it can continue to fester underground and through back-channels, as the John Birch Society did here in the States.
This is why addressing the root socioeconomic and individual psychological causes becomes necessary. While most people like to focus on one or the other, I think both are necessary.
edit for grammar
Clever trying to strawman the argument into “suppressing Nazism actually works forever and never needs to be reapplied.” from “suppressing Nazism works”. Part of the ongoing post-war stamping out of Nazism is exactly the kind of thing that court failed to uphold. Again, your example makes no sense at all because the AfD should have been stamped out under the law but was given a ludicrous exception. Had it been dissolved when it was small, Germany would not be in this predicament.
It is someone’s fault when they are active participants in their brainwashing and willfully ignoring the numerous people bringing them tidings from objective reality. The citizenry has been doing work trying to reprogram these cultists for years now, it is having little effect.
having little effect.
I disagree. Many people are brought out, you can very commonly find people’s personal accounts. The problem is they’re continuously recruiting as well, and do overwhelmingly well particularly with young male gamers who are disproportionately active online.
We can’t forget that every year, millions of people turn 18. Right now, four whole years worth of them don’t really personally remember a lot about the Trump presidency, they were doing the whole growing up thing.
I do agree that people do bear responsibility when they seek it out. I don’t think that’s most though, for most its the default from their local culture that they need education and critical thinking to save them from. Much like religion in general, if nobody helps you break free with independent ideas and critical thinking skills, you simply won’t. It’s a default of sorts, depending on the overall environment you were reared in.
I’m torn on that one. We’re all exposed to the same bullshit but we’re repulsed by it and stop/avoid consuming that propaganda. Those that are in MAGA choose to keep consuming that propaganda. I tried to get my father to stop watching primetime fox news (read: 1984s two minutes hate) in favor of the actual journalist on Fox (it was Shepard Smith at the time) and his response was “no way, that guy is too opinionated. Sean Hannity (the literal opinion guy that has OPINION on the screen…) tells it like it is.”
We’re all exposed to tons and tons of propaganda, there are literally no trustworthy corporate media sources and so we choose to abstain, or pick a more tepid source. A very large portion of Magoos love the hate. :(
That’s because you’re in possession of a certain set of skills and experiences that gives you the room to exercise critical thinking.
These are acquirable, though, you were not born with them. If someone has not had an equivalent opportunity to acquire your skills, they would lack this ability. Let’s not forget that we have a fairly strong cultural thrust towards anti-intellectualism in certain regions of the country. Our experiences are not all equal, and it has a great deal to do with our specific communities.
To an extent I agree, everyone definitely is not the same and we absolutely should have compassion for those that are being manipulated, but on the other hand just as a personal anecdote I have a friend who has excelled much further than I have having gone through college and a masters program, while I’m “uneducated” and stuck working in a factory and he’s still MAGA.
It’s kind of funny in a way, if you took me on paper and him on paper you’d assume he’s the lefty and I’m the right wing asshat lol
Conspiracy theories, which underpin so many fascist movements, are fun, is part of the problem.
What’s more pleasant, living in a harsh and difficult reality where you’re a small fry and real change is hard and life is mostly dull, or living in a dream world where all your problems are “their” fault and you can live with an emotional sense of superiority?
You can be an egalitarian, having to be equal with everyone, or you can be better than some people. Then, remembering that you can always just avoid thinking about contradictory evidence, try to objectively decide which you might prefer. Being an equal, or being a superior? I mean, does it matter what’s true? Does it make a difference in your day to day life if black and white people actually are fundamentally equal, if you don’t really have to treat them that way?
Imo, this is how it gets the smart people. Running theory anyway.
