i can’t even guess as to why they went quiet. not one guess at all. we will never know.
edit: well they’re not quiet now once they get called out
Right? .ml has been quiet…the CCP ran out of things for them to say?
Throwing your vote in the trash is a vote for garbage, and garbage won by a landslide.
The garbage voters really hate to hear it.
I have not been quiet. The writing’s on the wall. First undocumented immigrants, and the democrats are going after trans people next, and I can’t stand it.
Gotta love libs STILL blaming their overwhelming loss and support for genocide on people that they’ve banned.
Blame the at most 2 million or so antigenocide protestors, instead of the 75 million who voted for Trump. Considering Harris was short 8 million votes, it didn’t really matter.
Blame Trump voters first, but also blame Harris for running a dog shit campaign where she leaned right to pickup Republicans, and ended up picking up zero R voters while completely alienating the progressives and losing 14 million votes from Biden’s 2020 performance.
The Dems don’t seem too upset though. They would rather lose to the republicans than let progressives have any sort of power.
That’s not how voting works in the US.
It is not only that she ran to the right but she did so with Liz Cheney who represents the old guard that is no longer trusted by them. She is nothing but a liability and is moreso indicative of the rot in the establishment which seems to identify more with Republican-lite than anything the rank and file of the party wants. That same establishment is trying to decide which minority to throw under the bus now rather than own up to their failures.
Yeah, the young MAGAts I work with don’t like that old crew of Rs. People like Cheney campaigning with Harris was another reason for them to vote for Trump. Sane people know the whole “drain the swamp” thing is bullshit but a lot of his supporters buy that bullshit, and Cheney is definitely a swamp creature.
She needed a little over 230k (at last count) in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.
Edit: And the total popular vote gap is down to ~2.65mm.
“But but genocide joe, such a catchy name! Why do I have to think further than some meme?” -💩
But you did
fuckem. And honestly, if i get banned from a sub for calling out their bullshit then that’s a sub I’m not interested in being in.
Didn’t really think there was that many of them on here. I feel like every time I see memes like this on here it’s just people preaching to the choir.
They banned people and then celebrate the silence.
Focusing on these people was an unhealthy obsession, and most of the attempts to reach them were needlessly adversarial to the point of being toxic and hardening their resolve to not vote for Harris. Gaza was a losing issue for Harris and this attention just kept it front and center. Sad to see the obsession continue.
Anyways, this is not why Harris lost. It was a landslide and Trump won the popular vote by a huge margin. Americans don’t vote in large numbers on foreign policy - not unless Americans are getting killed. Kamala lost because she kept telling struggling families that the economy is great.
Focusing on these people was an unhealthy obsession, and most of the attempts to reach them were needlessly adversarial to the point of being toxic and hardening their resolve to not vote for Harris.
This is exactly why so many dug their heels in. The idea of leftists making a weird or nonsensical decision baffled and enraged many other leftists and liberals, the unhealthy obsession metastasized to full-blown cancer towards the election, I swear the left was arguing more with itself than the MAGA’s, and that’s also by design, nobody wants to debate the right because they’re insane, so better focus efforts on those who supposedly want the same thing, right?
The funny thing about the human mind that nobody gets yet is that attention is more important than what kind of attention, the fact that their obstinance about not voting democrat was getting them so much attention, making them feel like the persecuted minority, getting support from like-minds, it just created a mini-MAGA front. And sure, it probably wouldn’t have changed the election but it shows clearly how the only thing standing between us and a better future is our own idiocy as a species. Every damn time, we’re going to sabotage our collective future because of our personal feelings. MAGA are just people less aware of the world and more happy to be who they are. That’s the only difference between us.
Adding in an edit: downvote it all you want, you know it’s true. Hell, in his last election he DID lose the popular vote. Some democracy. More voters, actual people who took the time and effort to go and actually vote, wanted a different president, and got shown their votes don’t matter unless they live in a swing state.
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Anyways, this is not why Harris lost. It was a landslide and Trump won the popular vote by a huge margin. Americans don’t vote in large numbers on foreign policy - not unless Americans are getting killed. Kamala lost because she
kept telling struggling families that the economy is greathas a vagina.Fixed that for you.
Also she didn’t lose the pop vote by a huge margin. 3 million people is literally 1 percent of the population.
If this were a democracy and pop vote mattered, there are probably 10x that number of people who would have actually voted. Then I’d guess she would have won. Look at (greater area) Chicago. 9.5m people. 12 million people total in IL. how many Illinoisans didn’t vote because why does it matter? About 2 million probably.
Disclaimer: That last paragraph was obviously arbitrary.
Interesting that you seem to assume that Harris would have done better with the people who didn’t vote than with the people who did.
A Democrats losing the popular vote to a Republican by 1% is a huge margin. What matters isn’t the entire population, it’s the swing voters.
Democrats straddle the desires of their wealthy patrons and the desires of voters. They always try to give the people just enough to scrape by. The result is that we consistently have elections with tight margins. Democrats are playing a game of high stakes chicken every election.
You’re assuming that the entire 1% were swing voters. So no. It’s not a huge margin.
Ok average nearly half the country votes, every year. Yeah - that number should be way up - but 75% of those votes wouldn’t matter. That’s the point/problem.
If at least 1% over the electorate is swing voters, then that definitionally makes up the critical 1% Trump margin. That’s just what swing voters are.
The actual margin is more like 4-5% when you consider the extra votes Democrats need to win the electoral college.
Stop blaming vaginas for not getting votes
I will. When misogyny goes away.
I will. When women can control their own bodies lmfao.
I can keep going but. Shut the hell up man.
While establishing actual democracy is absolutely a priority, it’s not a guarantee that we would have had a better outcome. Australia has RCV and compulsory voting already, and are trending right anyways.
No it won’t magically fix everything but at least the voters would have no one to blame but themselves for who they elect to office.
The funniest thing about is like, I live in fucking Illinois. And I voted for the Dems downballot where it actually matters. All the words spilled, all the hate and anger that’s been directed at me, has been over a single third party vote in one of the safest states in the country. The vast majority of Americans live in safe states too.
In reality it’s just about enforcing the social norms of the tribe.
I’m in Illinois as well. I’ve personally come to the conclusion that voting third party isn’t a great option. The only third party that ostensibly aligns with me is the Green party, but their strategies make it clear to me that they actually exist to spoil elections, not advance issues. Our votes are technically irrelevant, but I’d rather not help legitimize the Green party.
Friendly reminder that Joe Biden is still the president and could stop sending weapons to Israel right now if he wanted to. But he doesn’t.
Thank god Trump is taking over right.
Yeah, maybe the liberals who were out to brunch for the last four years might suddenly start giving a shit again. JK who am I kidding, the only thing liberals are capable of is marching around with signs peacefully while pissing their pants.
As ineffectual as the democrat party they simp for. Pathetic.
I don’t know how government works or what laws are.
Yeah we can tell.
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It’s so weird. Gaza is extremely important and deserving of the attention. It’s genocide, and it’s horrific. But is no one else important? Because we can’t save Gaza immediately, it’s really better to set outselevs on fire so we can burn together? Like, real talk, Harris will be fine. Biden will be fine. It’s our friends and neighbors who are going to be deported, harassed, laid off, homeless and scared for a minimum of four years.
I wouldn’t say they’re gone though. I’ve been down voted, told “my kind/type” are all talk, or that I’m okay with murder, I voted for genocide, the usual. But I couldn’t sit and do nothing.
But I guess this is what they wanted. The dems have been taught a lesson, we’re moving headfirst into a dictatorship, and Gaza is no safer, but their conscious is clear, somehow.
It’s our friends and neighbors who are going to be deported, harassed, laid off, homeless and scared for a minimum of four years.
Already happening under biden. 🙄
I mean yes that’s true… but we already know the pattern, Trump is going to quintuple the pace and extremeness of it. The next democrat to win (if one ever does again), will continue the status quo set by the previous republican, possibly slightly reduce the acceleration of it (while still allowing it to accelerate).
And you will vote blue no matter who, continuing the cycle.
Let this country fucking burn. Let the boomers who voted this fraud in lose their social security and Medicare. They’ll learn.
It’s unlikely we’re making it 2030 between climate change and the risk of nukes.
honestly my vote doesn’t matter anyway. Claudia De La Cruz got .1% of my states vote… It was already known before it started that trump was going to win by a double digit percentage.
Out of curiosity, what wouldn’t you be willing to compromise on? If I had a party wanting to kill your mom and dad and another who just wants to kill your dad, would you make that compromise?
Perhaps a better, real-world example is that this moral calculus says that the Democrats should abandon trans people and trans issues. The logic is inescapable: Trans issues turn away a lot of voters, and it’s a really strong talking point for the other party. If they win, the Democrats could protect the LGB community, and women’s rights.
Surely it’s better to protect the LGB community and women’s rights, but not trans people, than to protect none of them, right?
(NB: This is rhetorical. I don’t believe it.)
It’s not rhetorical. It’s literally currently being proposed as a strategy by the “Harris went too woke” crowd.
Ummm…yes! Of course I would make that compromise! If I have a choice between they both die or one dies, of course I’m taking the choice where one lives!
What wouldn’t I be willing to compromise on? Nothing. If I have a choice between bad and worse, I’m taking bad, what kind of lunatic would intentionally choose worse?
Well, add another layer of complexity. The lesser of two evil guy wants to be picked. But instead of offering anything, he really wants to kill one of your parents and banks on your choice. He could of guaranteed getting picked by saying he’d kill none of your parents. But he does wanna kill one of them and gambled on you picking the lesser evil.
Didn’t happen, and you think it’s somehow the person making the impossible choice wrongly than the ones making the choices.
Thank you for your time.
However you cut it it’s one parent or two. One parent is always better than two.
There’s no need for extra complexity, both of your parents are getting killed now.
If I have a choice between bad and worse, I’m taking bad, what kind of lunatic would intentionally choose worse?
The vast majority of people would choose worse, at least in some situations.
Philosopher Bernard Williams proposed this thought experiment: suppose someone has rounded up a group of 20 innocent people, and says that he will kill all of them, unless you agree to kill one, in which case he’ll let the rest go. Act Utilitarianism would suggest that it is not only morally permissible, but morally obligatory to comply, which Williams saw as absurd. As an addendum, suppose the person then orders you to round up another 20 people so he can repeat the experiment with someone else, and if you don’t, he’ll have his men kill 40 instead. Congratulations, your “lesser-evilist” ideology now has you working for a psychopath and recruiting more people to work for him too.
Even the trolley problem, which liberals love to trot out to justify their positions, is not nearly as clear cut as they try to pretend it is. A follow up to the trolley problem is, is it ethical to kill an innocent person in order to harvest their organs in order to give five people lifesaving transplants? The overwhelming majority of people say no.
Act Utilitarianism is something that seems intuitive at first glance, but is very difficult to actually defend under scrutiny, and there are many, many alternative moral frameworks that reject its assumptions and conclusions. Liberals don’t seem to realize that this framework they treat as absolute and objective - that you would have to be a “lunatic” to reject - is actually a specific ideology, and one that’s not particularly popular or robust.
The trolley problem is clearly not clear cut at all, that’s what makes it interesting. This, of course, is lost on the Dunning-Kruger crowd.
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You seem to be missing the whole point. Maybe go calm down and stop calling people names.
Good comment, because this was the choice some were asked to make, to degrees ranging from similar to almost literally.
As an educated citizen I openly acknowledge voter abstention or voting Republican is irresponsible in carrying out my responsibility to protect my neighbor.
However I also recognize the incredibly painful and emotionally choking situation some were put in, with no messaging of empathy from either side. I will never blame those people more than I blame the party which failed them. Distribute it 51%/49% even, I don’t care. I’m just sick of the finger pointing and shit slinging against a tiny minority who bore no impact on the election outcome in the first place.
This dialogue, which OP is capitulating to, is perfect fascist propaganda. Find an insignificantly tiny out group, which conveniently happens to be majority Arab-American, and blame them for the violence while corporate interests and ever more racist border politics go unspoken.
Well fucking said, and pretty disgusting how upvoted the post is.
Exactly. It sounds rhetorical, silly and a stupid straw man of sorts. But that’s because people don’t understand there were people who had to actually make such decisions.
I agree, I voted Kamala Harris and I do wish we could all bite that bullet but I understand that failure to do so is on the campaign who made a gamble that they could never lose voters in a lesser evil campaign. They were wrong. Instead of criticizing that campaign many here want to fight the same people they claim to want to protect. They are turning on immigrants, Muslims, and queer folk and throwing blame at the people they themselves believe they need to win.
I would say “funny strategy” but there is no strategy here. It’s online liberals who don’t understand what happened and are upset and angry. They just came out of a campaign in which they spent so much of their time justifying the lesser of two evils that they can’t even acknowledge that it didn’t work and it’s the campaigns fault.
My hope is maybe they can stop arguing with us before the concentration camps come up.
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they are Isreali or Russian psy ops accounts (or at least useful idiots that have bought the psy ops).
When the war started, Lemmy was overrun by the “criticism of Isreal is antisemetic” accounts. That was rejected pretty hard. Those guys disappeared, and the “never genocide” people took their place.
It almost seems like a change in tactics to achieve the same goal.
the “criticism of Israel is antisemitism” accounts are gone because they were banned. Zionism and the insistence that a genocidal state is indivisible from an entire ethnic group is racism, and against most instance’s TOS.
“never genocide” content does not break TOS and so has lasted since october 7th through today. to the uninformed eye this dynamic might look like a change in tactic but really it’s just two different groups, one which got banned after a few days or weeks and one which did not.
just correcting your “change in tactics”/“it’s astroturfing” narrative. i don’t think it holds up in comparison to a much more likely explanation, and i might even use the word ludicrous to describe your argument unless you can provide further evidence.
Considering the fediverse’s low market share compared to non-federated alternatives, I’d be suprised if any malicious actors waste time and money running a psyops here. Like, you reach more people on Reddit for the same ammount of effort.
Psyops are everywhere
That is the exact mindset they are looking for.
thank you for saying this skskkssk. Occam’s razor: is it more likely that foreign psy-ops have incredibly poor cost-benefit analysis skills (while excelling in everything else), or that a couple dozen people have deeply held beliefs that led them to be vocal in the midst of tragedy?
call me crazy but the latter narrative makes a lot fewer assumptions.
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I don’t think astroturfing means what you think it means.
You’d reach more people on bigger platforms, but it is easier to steer the conversation with smaller groups. So I don’t think its totally clear-cut where the best psyops targets would be.
Oh, don’t worry, the conspiracy theory is capable of making sense of any incongruities like that, just like OP can explain away the fact that we didn’t actually disappear as predicted. You see, this is where the Russian bots practice their techniques and try out different lines before deploying them on a larger scale.
It’s not based on evidence or reason so the believers will never be convinced based on evidence or reason, same as any other conspiracy theory.
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It was 100% astroturfing, 20% people falling for bullshit. Sounds like politics
15% concentrated power of shill.
Absolutely! There is no doubt. Such fallacies is what they do. Mostly they go with “they are all the same”, then take an absolute approach attack on the principles of the left(er) political party.
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Real Talk, I’m getting real tired of everyone from the vaguely right of center to the farthest reaches of the left getting involved in this shit slinging blame game.
I legit don’t care anymore who you voted for (edit: so long as it wasn’t Trump I mean. But even then, time to start your redemption arc if you did). We are past the election and now all share the same immediate issues.
Folks who abstained from voting (or voted 3rd party) because you couldn’t stomach the lesser of two evils, good news, that choice is gone. You can stop parroting the idea that anyone who voted Blue did so “in support of genocide”. It should be clear by now those who voted Blue really were just doing their best in a bad situation, they are not your enemies.
Folks who voted Blue because you believe supporting the lesser evil is in service of the greater good. Good news, that burden is also gone. You can stop parroting the idea that someone who can’t stomach voting for people who would play politics with genocide is really just a tankie or a bot. Not every one is willing to play game theory with people’s lives, that doesn’t mean they are your enemies.
Anyone who truly wants to push for solidarity and human rights for all is an ally of mine. And I propose we bury the hatchet, preferably in the objectives of fascists, before its too late.
On this platform specifically we’ve had months of smug people claiming to make the moral choice of directly or indirectly supporting the clearly worse choice. It’s far too early to just let that slide.
If we in 100 years still sometimes talk about the early days of the fediverse where a bunch of morons fell for astroturfing, that’s kind of a good outcome.
If they’re real people they should feel bad.
For the not so real people, we should figure out how a distibuted system can deal with a concerted astroturfing operation.
On this platform, we have also had genuine people struggle with supporting a system and party that directly cause harm, even if it would cause less harm then the alternative. And many of them went from struggling with finding the right choice, to full on radicalized towards abstaining because of the smug posting of people on this platform who acted as if they were stupid or evil for this struggle with their moral compass.
I get that everyone feels very strongly about their positions in this, and that these feelings are directly tied to our personal beliefs.
But the reality is, we those who abstained and those who voted Blue share many fundamental beliefs. And we can either let this election be the hill we all collectively die on, or we can let bygones be bygones and stand united to help those we still can.
And here is the kicker, it may feel good to say those who came to a different conclusion than you should “feel bad”, but if you do, you will be guilty of the same sin you so strongly accuse them of.
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Acting pretty mad for getting exactly what you wanted. But thank God virtue signaling about Gaza will survive past the actual existence of Gaza
Honestly I’m drinking liberal tears up. Where were you for the past four years “pushing biden to the left”? Out to brunch! Don’t you know the economy has never been better?!
They’re easy targets. Blame the abstainers and third party voters and you don’t have to confront the legitimate failures of your party and campaign.
Nobody has denied that there are problems in the dnc, but the fault is still largely on the voters.
Nobody has denied there are problems with me, but the fault is still largely on women.
You’re in denial. Enjoy your drinks in the Cheney bar.
Why not both?
Because it’s not a useful strategy. Convince them they’re wrong and they’ll shame themselves.
I think it is important to point out the failings of others. Otherwise they may not connect the dots and learn from their mistakes.
Sometimes a mistake is innocent, say you forgot to zip up your fly. It’s important to know you forgot to do so as it could be very socially embarrassing.
Sometimes one could accidentally cut someone off in traffic because they didn’t see them. A good honk notifies them of their mistake and will hopefully drive home the fact that they probably need to pay better attention to traffic.
Pointing out that abstaining and or choosing not to vote enabled the election of the greater of two evils is equally important.
Rock on OP. Never let them forget!
Then point at the FAILED DEMOCRAT PARTY instead of voters. When biden announced he was running for re-election their own internal polling showed he’d lose. They don’t fucking care, it’s all theatre to them. Their corporate owners are happy and the donations continue to flow in from foolish rubes like you who will gladly vote blue no matter who right off a fucking cliff.
Kamala Harris spent a billion dollars and still fucking lost. But yeah go blame voters that will ensure the same thing happens in 2028 should we be so lucky to pretend to play democracy again. And it is pretend. Because if you don’t vote correctly you’re the worst person to ever exist.
I’ve been repeating this thought exercise because people seem to have a hard time delineating when blame goes the other way.
Bob is standing next to a bomb, and a fuse is sparking down. Jill, on the other side of a fence and reliant on Bob, lifts a huge very expensive sign for Bob to stamp out the fuse. Bob does not stamp out the fuse, bomb goes off.
Who is at fault; Bob for not stamping out the fuse, or Jill for not getting a high-amp bullhorn to inform Bob he should stamp the fuse?
Feel free to vary the analogy, but the question would extend to: When does it become Bob’s fault that he didn’t take action?
It remains the democrats fault for:
• gaslighting the public about inflation
• gaslighting the public about not one but two new wars including a genocide!
• refusing to run a small D democratic primary that they didn’t rig since checks notes 2004 (they tried to rig 2008 for Hillary but failed because Obama was so charismatic they couldn’t stop him)
• refusing to run a primary at all in 2024, despite biden promising when elected in 2020 to be a one term president, and his own polling showed he’d lose in 2024
• last minute Hail Mary of replacing biden with Harris despite not a single vote being cast for her
• no platform other than “we’re not trump! Elect an anti-democratic party to save democracy! Trumps the next hitler!!!”
• didn’t bother campaigning in swing states just like Hillary in 2016
Gee I wonder why they lost the election. Couldn’t be that they continuously gaslight the public. Couldn’t be that they didn’t hold a primary (sorry but RFK Jr vanity run is not a primary). No, no. Voters just voted wrong!
But don’t worry! We have to save dEmOcRaCy! Let’s just roll over and hand the power over to trump because he won fair and square and optics and politeness are more important than saving the country! You see, the democrat party doesn’t actually give a shit, if they were serious, they would have their own January 6th. They’re not serious. They’re gonna fundraise off of it. Just like roe v Wade!
no platform other than “we’re not trump! Elect an anti-democratic party to save democracy! Trumps the next hitler!!!
Yeah? Why do you need a platform beyond this?
It was a competent former prosecutor vs a serially lying violent felon.
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If that delusion makes feel better about enabling a facist, then you probably aren’t ready to come to terms with your failure.
Sooner or later, one way or another, it will come for you.
Continue losing elections.
If Dems continue loosing elections they will definitely come for you.
I’d rather keep up the blame game, ngl. Arguments didn’t work on the disingenuous pricks who helped get us here. I don’t care if they personally made a difference or not, I care that they were utterly unreasonable, and the change in circumstances won’t change that.
Speaking to anyone who could’ve voted for Kamala but didn’t: I don’t care about solidarity anymore; you didn’t have solidarity with us when we needed you. Y’all are fucking stupid and I don’t want to deal with that. I realize that’s not the moral choice, but RN for the first time in over a decade I don’t care about that. I’m angry. Maybe in a few more days or weeks or months that will change, maybe not. Right now I’m focusing on making sure all my remaining friends are able to get somewhere safe if the need arises and keep hope kindled in their hearts. Maybe that means other people who need my help more will suffer, die, or fall victim to their own despair, but I just don’t have the wherewithal to make that my priority.
I don’t care about solidarity anymore
Behold: a scratched liberal.
I don’t care about solidarity anymore
Never did. Solidarity means you aren’t willing to sacrifice marginalized groups to get ahead or save your own skin. If you accept sacrificing Palestinians, you’d accept sacrificing any other group by the exact same “lesser-evilist” logic. What value does that kind of “solidarity” have?
Hey look it’s one of the problems.
Please explain how Trump will bring in peace and stop Israel from hurting anymore Palestinians, since that’s the only way your dumbass argument would even be coherent
Sounds like you have your hands full dealing with getting you and yours to safety. Good luck, I wish you all the best in that endeavor!
I can’t blame you for being angry, but just try not to let that anger turn you into the thing you are angry at. Someone who stands idly by when someone needs help you could provide.
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I blame the voters and Harris. The Harris campaign was bad, but voters don’t get to escape the responsibility of the result that the mathematical reality of the US electoral system bestows on them.
congrats you found out how to hold two truths at once 😆 something that you’d think brings physical agony to internet users based on how rarely it happens
(e: mean this genuinely and am glad you have this position, sorry if this sounds excessively snarky ❤️)
Don’t say such ignorant things. That’s not how elections work at all.
Voters don’t have any agency except what the ballot affords them. They are virtually powerless as individuals. What you’re blaming are agents with virtually no agency to change.
It’s how elections aren’t supposed to work, but it is how they work in the US. If you don’t vote in favour of one candidate, it works out to a half-vote for the other candidate. It’s the inevitable reality of a two-party system, which sucks ass, but it’s still there and voters are still responsible for how they choose to deal with it.
Not voting for Harris means realising a Trump victory. It’s just how it works in the US, and no amount of principled ideas can ignore the mathematical reality of the US electoral system.
Also, I don’t buy into the idea that voters are powerless sheeple. Organize, protest, strike, options a’ plenty. But Americans are apathetic and don’t care enough to realise actual change. And it’s clearly possible, given the track record of several leading human rights activists in the US. But it is hard, and people don’t even bother trying something if it looks hard.
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but Israel has a right to defend itself bro!
(sarcasm)
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OOPS! added a tone tag. that was deep deep sarcasm in response to months of human dehumanization and murder. it’s a direct quote from the person i am criticizing. my fault.
thanks
