Musk:
-supposedly has autism
-autistic people sometimes make weird faux paus
To me, it looks like it’s clearly a Hitler salute and the logical conclusion is he’s a white supremacist. But I am just wondering if everyone else sees this that way with no room for it being a result of autism and definitely that.
Is there any possibility it could have been accidental? Or was he doing a Hitler salute, then “oh it was an accident” (wink) sort of thing? Did he apologize?
Lots of people on lemmy are really smart so I’m interested to read what people think.
The whole thing makes me really uncomfortable with buying from companies that have x profiles. I just don’t see how that coukd be accidental and it seems like no one cares.
There was this period before WWII when stuff started happening to reduce the rights of minorities, but they weren’t being killed blatantly. Is this where we are? I feel more scared to be in America now.
I don’t think so. My case:
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Just at the level of fuckin eyeballing it, the comparisons to how Hitler did it to how Musk did it are pretty damning.
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I asked Germans on Lemmy if Musk would’ve gotten fined if he was anyone else and had done this at an event in Germany, the answer was a confident yes. I expect Germans know it when they see it, and know how not to fall foul of the law, so that’s another good test that says Musk knew what he was doing.
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Last and most damning is when you consider the context of the man himself. Musk has been directly sponsoring and promoting not just right wing but reactionary parties like AfD, MAGA, and whatever Nigel Farage’s fucking circus is called for years. You can also see this in how Twitter’s content is managed. The dude has been putting in lots of very visible work boosting Nazi messaging and actual Nazi politicians/parties. Is it REALLY such a shock that he would, ahem, stop hiding his power level in such a public way after a win like the 2024 election? I don’t think so, and especially not if you accept that Musk believes there’s not going to be another meaningful election. I don’t think the other oligarchs think so either, that’s why they’ve been so quick to fall in line and pay their tribute.
It’s time to face the music. Chat, we might be cooked.
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If he had rehearsed his script, everyone would’ve pointed out the issue
We’re talking about a man who has obviously fascist politics. Pretty much anyone knows not to do a nazi salute in front of millions of people, and he did it twice. Besides, if it somehow were an accident, he’d have immediately apologised.
The fact that this is even a conversation is just insane to me…
Musk isn’t someone who failed elementary school, he is the richest man on the world and the US secretary for government efficiency. He definitely knows what’s a Nazi salute, and what isn’t.
We’re not in the context of a movie, a theatre play, a larp, or even a costume party where it would have been from OK to “stupid” but in the context of a political speech.
So it’s definitely a nazi salute.
People win elections all the time. People celebrate elections all the time. The last time somebody taking power did a gesture that looked like this was probably in Germany, 1933. This is no coincidence.
It doesn’t matter.
It REALLY doesn’t matter.
If he was doing a Nazi salute, the consequences are obvious. If he was doing something “like” a Nazi salute but can plausibly deny it, the result is exactly the same; and that means that the intent is the same, even if it is proven (magically!) that it wasn’t a Nazi salute.
This is the result:
The Nazis of the world all saw it, and took it as a sign of unity. Nothing else matters.
Now Musk may or not may be autistic, but I know several autistic people (plus one with Tourette Syndrome, long ago) and you know what? Not a single one of them has done anything like a Nazi salute.
“Heil Hitler” as a phrase and a salute is fairly unique: It is something that is absolutely burned into the memory of most of humanity, regardless of language, culture, or society. Nobody with Musk’s worldly knowledge and experience would accidentally do something that close to a Nazi salute. Hell, an eight year old from Latvia wouldn’t accidentally do something like that. The knowledge and the taboo are absolutely burned into our collective consciousness.
There is absolutely zero chance whatsoever that Musk didn’t know what he was doing.
And even if that’s true, it honestly doesn’t matter.
It doesn’t matter.
It REALLY doesn’t matter.
Best way I saw it expressed: If you did something that was NOT a nazi salute, but other people perceived it as a nazi salute, you would IMMEDIATELY apologise and walk it back. Given that Muskolini has not done that, he did indeed do a nazi salute.
If it was an accident, he’d probably have apologized by now. But it really doesn’t matter either way. It’s too late now, he’s given license to the far right to see it as the endorsement they want.
Yeah, if any normal person did a nazi salute by accident, they’d be all over the news refuting it. If he isn’t, then it seems to default to being a nazi salute.
There is always a possibility that he did not intend it to be a Hitler salute, but that possibility is not very plausible, because…he pretty much did a Hitler salute and the odds of him being ignorant of that fact are extremely low.
Watch it again. It seems there is a split second hesitation before the first salute. Followed by a “let’s just get that done full force” move. Kinda like people that are about to do a stunt the first time. One last “are we really going to try that?”. It kinda implies intent and also that there is some sanity left there to make these decisions. Which gives me hope it’s just Putin having a video of him and he is acting under duress. So definitively an intentional Nazi salute. Should try that in Germany and see how fast he gets arrested for that shit.
Nope, I doubt Putin had a thing to do with it. Musk is the richest man on earth living in the USA, he’s the closest you can possibly be to being completely immune from all consequences short of having bulletproof skin.
Which gives me hope it’s just Putin having a video of him and he is acting under duress.
What the fuck does this even mean? Why are people giving this man so many undeserved benefits of the doubt?
This a detail I haven’t seen many others pick up on. The guy hyped himself up on doing it, then went for it with gusto.
Nah, as an autistic person who works with many autistic people (I am a support worker), no. Autistic people are able to miss things, mistake social cues, and so on, but blaming autism for a Nazi salute is absolutely bullshit. Not to mention that he has done tonnes of other stuff which is in line with a Nazi salute and this is just the last in a long line of behaviours, and his family history etc, yeah, not autism, just Nazi shit.
Honestly, I’m not entirely convinced it was a Nazi salute. I think, given how stupid and akward he is, and the fact that the salute was so off-angle, it could have actually been an akward “my heart goes out to you” gesture.
That said, focusing on this possible red flag is stupid and honestly makes light of the situation, when looking at Elon Musk’s history and past statements is like standing in the Red Square on parade day. The bigger and more undeniable red flags are all throughout his past, and continued after the salute, such as his refusal to apologize. I guess its good that people are finally putting their foot down, but the appropriate time was a decade ago at least.
Any normal (read: not a fascist piece of trash) person who mistakenly made that kind of gesture would be mortified and would be tripping over themselves to clarify/correct/apologize.
This is overly charitable given his strong and consistent support of the extreme right
Failing to see it is dangerously naive at best
No way he didn’t know what het was doing. He hesitates before he does it the first time, then when he get’s a positive reaction he does it the second time. This was deliberate and from what I can see many people in the the US are underreacting to it big time.
To me, that hesitation seemed more like a pause at the end of a paragraph, and the second salute, if it was so, less confident than the first (esspecially given that he bent his arm the second time). I’m not confident it wasn’t an intentional Nazi salute, but I’m also not confident it was, which is why I err on the side of caution. I believe we should assume innocence unless guilt can be proven.
That said, this is why I felt the need to include the second paragraph. We shouldn’t be focused on the time Elon did something wrong with plausible deniability nor should we be particularly concerned that others aren’t more upset. Our focus should instead be on the fact that he has made numerous statements and taken actions that support racism, sexism, classism, misinformation and conspiracy theories, ect. and supported others who represent these values. Our fury should be at the people who ignored these far more direct and unambiguous statements, and have continued to ignore them for over a decade.
Let me ask you something: what kind of person makes that kind of obvious faux pas on the stage at the inauguration of the President of the United States of America then doesn’t try to clarify or correct people who say it was a Nazi salute?
Any normal person would be mortified, and tripping over themselves to explain themselves or apologize. I would say that his actions (or more accurately, inaction) after the gesture cements it for me that there is zero point zero percent possibility that this was not intentional.
You are a fool if you believe otherwise.
35 yo autistic person here:
I tend to ramble on and on when I am somewhat nervous, or excited and genuinely interested in someone or something, i’ll include too much detail that does eventually wrap around to connect to all the points I am trying to make, or story I’m trying to tell, but it can be laborious for a listener to make sense of.
I will often interperet things people say so literally that I miss or forget the context that the conversation is taking place in which gives a word or phrase a specific meaning, and have to ask for clarification.
Saying goodbye and ending a conversation is always either too long and drawn out, or abrupt and curt to the point of often being interpreted as rude, even though I don’t mean to be rude.
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I do not have a tendency to do a goddamned nazi salute unintentionally.
Thats uh, a pretty unambiguous, obvious social ettiquette rule, pretty binary, pretty cut and dry.
Also, if you did, you would likely be mortified and doing everything in your power to make sure nobody mistakenly takes you for a Nazi.
Because, you know, you’re not a goddamn fucking Nazi.
Yep.
No. And here’s why:
ELON MUSK HAS NOT DENIED THAT HE MADE A NAZI SALUTE!
The closest he has come to a denial, so far as I can find over 48 hours after he made the gesture, is a deflective tweet mocking the people who recognized the link to Nazis as being uncreative.
This means one of two things: a. He doesn’t care that it is being construed as a Nazi salute. OR
b. He wants it to be construed as a Nazi salute.These two options very much amount to the same thing.
We will never know what exactly was going through his mind at the moment he made the motion. Regardless, even if Musk had somehow not initially intended the gesture to be a Nazi salute, he has transformed it into one by promoting that interpretation.
at first I thought it was supposed to be a normal hand over heart then doing a salute immediately after, but to do it TWICE then NOT apologize when people say it’s a Nazi salute means it is 100% a Nazi salute.
Yea sure - but it doesn’t matter. It could have mattered but his reaction to the reaction means it doesn’t.
If you accidentally do a nazi salute and then someone says “Hey bro, you really shouldn’t do a nazi salute” and another dude says “Hey bro, white power! I’m glad you’re on our side” and your immediate reaction isn’t “Oh fuck guys, I didn’t know that was a nazi salute, I fucking hate nazis” then, well, you did a nazi salute.
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Elon did a thing.
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People said “That’s a nazi thing”.
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Elon didn’t immediately say “No, I didn’t do the nazi thing.”
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∴ Elon is a nazi.
It’s also not like the fucker doesn’t have the ability to issue a statement correcting the public perception. He literally owns fucking X and the media salivate over his press releases.
If you accidentally do a nazi salute and then someone says “Hey bro, you really shouldn’t do a nazi salute”
I like to think about how a person like that would react if they accidentally “acted gay”. Can you imagine how much they would trip over themselves trying to make sure people knew it was a mistake?
If you don’t have that level of response to being called a Nazi, you’re probably a Nazi.
Great comparison.
Point of order. He didn’t do a Nazi salute. He did two, within five seconds, on national television, at the inauguration.
And if they work that hard to make sure everyone knows they’re not gay, then bonus! You also found out that they’re homophobic.
No, I don’t agree with this at all.
I grew up in the 90s when being gay was “bad” (societys words, not mine). I live in Cleveland, but a suburb of Cleveland is Lakewood. San Fransisco is Americas gayest city. Lakewood is (was?) Americas second gayest city (at least in the 90s it was).
I lived right on the Lakewood border. About 7 streets away. And just to give an idea of how anti-gay the 90s were, I can remember a guy getting handcuffed to a chain link fence, and beaten by 4 men with bats. Beaten to literal death. With his dead body lay prone and still handcuffed from 2:30am until 7am on a busy street until a mother called the police as she walked her 5 year old to school (this was 2 blocks from an elementary school)
That’s the environment I grew up in. People CONSTANTLY accused me of being gay. I’m not. I never have been gay. But I grew up being taught you better make sure you deny it. If nothing else, so people don’t beat you.
Now I realize, we no longer live in that social environment. But I also assume Jews in Europe in the 1960s still would downplay the fact they were Jewish. Sure, the nazis weren’t a thing anymore, but if you’d seen the holocaust you wouldn’t take chances either.
Plus, being a teenager in the 90s, I thought “If the girls think I’m gay, I’ll never get laid…” which was true. They still thought I was gay, and I didn’t get to date until after high school.
And thats how I stay today. I have enough of an uphill battle to dating. I don’t need women disqualifying me for something that isn’t true.
Now if YOU wanna be gay, go ahead. I always think if more guys are gay, that makes things easier for me.
This is the weirdest homophobic and also misogynistic take I’ve read. You took “I’ve got nothing against the gays, but…” to a new deranged level.
He’s like only part way there. I grew up in the 90s too when being gay was “bad”. In my younger years I would have absolutely said I’m not homophobic but would have made damn sure no one thought I was. Spoiler alert. It was homophobic even if I didn’t realize it. However in my older years I recognize that for what it was.
I’m not saying that just because someone says you’re gay, you can’t correct them without being homophobic. I’m saying that the people that people that go out of their way to make sure everyone knows they’re not gay, who get offended at the idea of being mistaken for gay are acting homophobic.
I grew up in approximately the same era as you in a very conservative area, and yeah, there was a lot of homophobic behavior and slurs. But if someone asked if I was gay in this day and age, I think anything more than a quick correction is over-reacting.
But hey, that’s just my opinion; you’re welcome to yours. Have a good day friend!
Based on your persuasive arguments, ive decided to be gay.
Good choice. We have the best sex.
That’s so gay
First time in years I’ve seen the ‘therefor’ three dots!
∴ - copying to notes as I don’t think it’s available on Android keyboards.
I always just search the web for “<symbol> unicode” when I need something obscure. Then again I’m old ;_;
I’m British and I tried to plug something into it.
Don’t you know? Plugs go in the rear.
I didn’t even know it existed in the first place. I’m going to show my grandfather and see if he’s seen it before. I expect he has since he’s a retired english/history teacher
edit: he has seen it before, but he couldn’t remember what it meant.
I remember it from ‘introductory formal logic’ back in my (failed) uni days.
It kinda had a language of its own, similar to how mathematics has < > etc
Elon didn’t immediately say “No, I didn’t do the nazi thing.”
He did though: https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1881746484229763524. My hypothesis: he practiced this and realized what reaction it would cause, and did it simply to hype himself up. The whole inauguration event in people minds is now associated with Elon doing “sieg heil” while being high on ketamine.
I’m not seeing him saying it. He did a “what about” and then blamed the media.
Also those are static images he’s showing. A video of those images would show very different hand motions.
I also couldn’t find him directly denying it, and you’re correct those examples in referenced image are no good - in the comments there are video versions of those showing none of them looking anywhere similar to what he did. There are other videos of Macron and Camala doing some gesture, but they are fetching their hand far up in front of them in more of a waving to audience way, so it doesn’t look like nazi salute.
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