And of course they had to shoehorn some AI bullshit in it
(why I installed this driver: because i can remap the two extra buttons as copy/paste)
Actual driver code: about 500KB. If that.
500KB used to be the entire OS, application, drivers, and user data. Oh well.
They didn’t have mice that far back.
The original Macintosh had 128k of ram.
RAM is active. It doesn’t hold the entire OS when in use even now.
The entire MacOS including finder and the tools was 216KB on the 400KB floppy.
um wut
I have several Logitech peripherals. Why in the fuck does it need AI?!?!
I mean, this was their idea last year…
I feel like “AI Mouse” is right up their alley.
Because CEOs.
To communicate with the 5th version of software they have somehow released between the time the product was created and you bought it.
We live in the age of bloated software.
The Internet is so bloated because every page is bursting with telemetry and spa framework bullshit that over engineers a fucking music recital site.
Saving this to share at work. What an abomination that, I am sorry you have to deal with it
,
i wonder if a open source driver alternative exists.
Piper is less than 2MB, and allows reconfiguring Logitech mouse buttons. It’s available in Debian and Ubuntu package managers.
Screenshot:
I had to use Piper to get exotic features like having mouse 6, 7, 8 buttons function as mouse 6, 7, 8, rather than the default of alt-tab and ctrl-v.
This is not a driver. The README itself says:
Piper is merely a graphical frontend to the ratbagd DBus daemon
ratbagd itself, BTW, is also not a driver.
The unofficial open source license is called logiops, and according to the Debian site most of its builds are also under 2MB (and the two builds that aren’t are only slightly bigger)
There is also RatSlap, which I can’t find information on how big it is (and I’m not going to bother installing it just to find out)
I never thought to look for something like this, but it looks fantastic so i’m going to try it. Thanks!
and if you install it via fatpak its almost 1GB
I think he meant as in “if this is the first ever GTK application you install via flatpak”. The “Installed Size” on Flathub only indicates the amount of storage the program itself will take up and doesn’t take into account the libraries it will install alongside it (installing piper via flatpak takes up 400MB on my device).
I still think it is really negligible because people usually don’t install applications that use such a variety of different graphical frameworks, and also because modern PC disk capacities are so absurdly big compared to past ones. I only have a 256GB drive and have never faced any issues regarding how much storage flatpak apps use.
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would be cool if it also worked on Windows and Macos
I use https://macmousefix.com/en/ on my Mac mouse. I’m not sure of its range of features.
Does it still allow macros? I have a couple of 502s and my older one has fallen victim to the common problem of rhe switch getting bouncey so one click becomes multiple. Supposedly macros can fix this.
I’m never buying another Logitech device again because that problem that happened with my G7 back in the 00s still happened with my G900 in the 20s.
With my G7, I’d open it up when it started happening, and open up the switch to re-bend the metal piece to give it some spring back. Kept doing this until one day the plastic button that presses down on that metal part fell on carpet and was gone forever.
With my G900, I said fuck it and just bought some better mouse button switches and replaced the left mouse button. Was actually kinda glad I needed to because the battery had become a danger pillow so I replaced that, too.
But with the button issue existing for so long and being fixed by a part that cost a trivial amount compared to what I paid in the first place, you can’t convince me that Logitech isn’t deliberately using switches that fail quickly to drive up demand for mice.
If your mouse drivers allow setting the debounce timer, you can set it higher so that your system doesn’t allow the bouncing to register.
My 903 did that, and so did the one they replaced and now your making me worry about my 502. It’s shitty switches so a macro would hide it for a little at best. I tried to replace them but these are not fun to open up.
This is a physical defect. Macros make one key press effect one or more action button or key press. For instance if a common operation involves pressing a b and c in sequence you can make one button on your mouse actuate that sequence.
You can’t bind a macro to left click because then you can’t left click anymore. Even if you bound double clicking to single click (if this is even possible) it would mean every time it single click you would effect nothing which is equally if not more broken.
You need to either take your mouse apart and fix it or throw it in the trash.
Yes, it is a physical defect but it is common enough that people have been able to work around it with macros.
It’s been a while since I tried to look into this or fix it, but a quick search shows what I think was a possible solution. (Might not be, I’m just trying to be explanatory of what I mean by a macro fixing a double click problem.) https://techenclave.com/t/mouse-double-click-issue-solution-by-coding/269878
Its broken fix or toss this solution isn’t applicable directly. Also seems like it would be hard to intentionally double click and add latency to single clicks
Go tell the authors of that article then, I very clearly said I was only using it as an example.of what I meant by fixing it with macros and not saying it’s a solution I’ve looked into. 🙄
We detected you moved your mouse. Downloading 1GB of AI telemetry and 3GB of user experience optimizations…
X mouse button control
It can’t detect some of the fancier buttons and gestures but it can often pickup buttons 4 and 5 for remapping, and it does chording and long press options to give you multiple functions without any AI bullshit.
Fuck electron, fuck “web first” apps, fuck the “all application in the future will be websites” mentality.
The sad reality of the end of Windows dominance.
Proton proves that you don’t need to run on a web browser for cross platform compatibility. Turing-complete platforms are equivalent in their capabilities, it’s just a matter of adding a translation layer that doesn’t need to be as heavy as a browser DOM (at least for going between windows and Linux on x64).
I get what you are saying and this is definitely a factor but I think the bigger influencer was mobile adoption. As soon as smartphones took off it was inevitable that we would see a surge in cross platform frameworks/libraries.
The fact we tackled this problem by shifting everything to web apps was also inevitable given the more simplistic deployment requirements and maintenance costs of a website vs native application.
I feel like I am shouting to the void when I talk about performance of modern software being unbelievably bad.
Yeah, I can see how it ended up like that, and it would at least be nice if Windows accepted that and had one copy of the browser rather than every app installing it’s own just in case of breaking changes.
And it would also be really nice if it only clogged the system for when it needs to show a UI, but I’ve got a ton of background processes that are also running a browser just in case today is the day that I finally need to see them. Just looking down task manager now at some suspect large processes, I can see a Razer “mouse driver”, Epic, Discord, Steam, Nvidia, Oculus, NordVPN, Signal…
None of these things need to be running a browser while I’m not looking at them.
But hey, lets throw another 32GB of RAM in there, and another dozen cores, and maybe we can achieve the dream of running each of them all in their own fucking operating system as well…
Man, they really developed the most unfun layout system and then tried to force it to everyone
+1 for using space sniffer. It’s the best of such apps I’ve found. Unfortunately doesn’t seem to get updated any more.
Windirstat or kdirstat for the win
Windirstat crew represent
Move to WizTree. Thank me later
yeah, but between now and next time I need it I’ll have forgotten wiztree but will still remember windirstat because I’ve been using it for years.
Wiztree is much faster
Mmm, I’ve migrated from Windows now, but it would have interested me a year ago!
Amateur! ncdu! 😂
GNOME Disk Usage Analyzer
I can’t stand the look of Windirstat lol.
I use explorer++ now because it can show subdir sizes. Unfortunately performance suffers quite a bit because of no caching and unsmart file system lol. Maybe linux has this basic and essential feature in it’s file explorer.
WizTree my beloved
That’s not the driver but some bundled configuration & update bloatware.
Back in my days, you had to overwrite some .exe with a “0” to disable Nvidia from spying on you. The overwrite, because they would just download it again if you deleted the .exe.
I remember installing a fresh PC with win98. During installation, I disabled some windows bloatware (Imagine! You actually could do this!), and ended up with an unresponsive, non-windows app blocking the system. I killed that app and removed it from the system. Keep in mind that at this point, no network connection was set up, nor did I install any driver or program yet, this was straight from the windows install medium.
After reboot, the app was back, and again blocking the system.
Wiping the harddisk and starting installation over did not help either.
Turned out this was some bloatware installed by the BIOS whenever it detected at boot that there was a) a Windows installation that was b) “missing” their “register your PC with us” app. This needed some Windows bloatware to work, and thus failed on this machine.
This was the only time I angrily screamed at a hotline worker.
The driver for your mouse occupies a few kilobytes. The shitty app and AI garbage bloatware occupies the rest.
The mouse driver used with the Commodore 64’s GEOS operating system uses 3 blocks on disk, less than a kilobyte.
Most of the reason why the Logitech driver is so gargantuan is a separate Chromium browser instance, because someone thought that apps should be all websites first, which lead to most GUI libraries being developed for javascript and most devs being taught to be web developers.
VSCode is also electron with a 100mb download size and 400mb install size. I think it has 1000x more functionality than some shit Logitech UI where you change LED colors. This sounds more like incompetence on the Logitech team than a problem with electron itself.
It’s not like traditional methods of packing apps are without problems. If I want to install the qbittorrent flatpak on Ubuntu, it pulls in >1gb of KDE depenencies, so I really don’t see how that’s better than these dreaded electron apps.
Or you can use qbittorrent-nox which is a server-only package of qbittorrent and just interact with it via its the web interface from your favorite browser.
Mind you, I only know this by chance because I explicitly wanted to run qbittorrent as a service on an always on machine which is not supposed to be used with keyboard and mouse.
The 1gb of KDE dependencies are one time only, but there’s also the option of just using OpenGL + bare x11 or Wayland for GUI. If my game engine could pull it off, if IMGUI apps could pull it off, then everyone could pull it off, we just need a UI framework not ddependent on either GTK or qt.
“One time only”? In theory yes, in practice I don’t have anything else that needs those KDE dependencies. When I remove qbittorrent I can safely remove them. This is just a reality check that desktop GUI frameworks and package management are really not much better than Electron/html as lots of comments in this thread seem to suggest.
That is your use case, that relative to your individual usage only one application uses the framework. In that very specific scenario, sure. However with electron it’s forced to be that way for every single application no matter what your scenario is.
If electron packaged as a dependency, then it would be similar. But it’s always forcibly bundled.
Ok, I will just try to install more KDE apps so I can make use of that great dependency so I can join the Electron hating circle jerk next time. But from where I stand now, Electron apps are just like any appimage or snap.
That driver was using 0.5% of system resources! I thought it would be worse when I saw “259 blocks free”, but overall that’s pretty good.
But did it support RGB?
Didn’t think so, checkmate!
A lot of fancy early RGB mouse came with a companion app that needed 10MB at most, and that was ridiculed.
maybe this will help, if you wanted to ditch the logi driver:
https://github.com/pwr-Solaar/Solaar
Solaar is a Linux manager for many Logitech keyboards, mice, and other devices that connect wirelessly to a Unifying, Bolt, Lightspeed or Nano receiver as well as many Logitech devices that connect via a USB cable or Bluetooth. Solaar is not a device driver and responds only to special messages from devices that are otherwise ignored by the Linux input system.
piper is also great. openrgb works too if all you want is to change led colors.
Saving this for later.
take it to the bushes.
Bewbs
I hope one day theres something similar to this, but for 8bitdo.
I have an 8bitdo keyboard, and in order to map my buttons, I need to boot up a windows 10 hard drive, do my one time edits, save them to the keyboard, and THEN I can turn off the pc, swap back to my ZorinOS hard drive, and THEN I can go about as normal.
And if for some reason somethings wrong, or didn’t take, I’d have to repeat the whole process all over again.
All because the keyboard manager doesn’t work on linux. But it’s not logitech.
Sell the 8bitdo keyboard and buy one instead that is capable of running with QMK or ZMK firmware and is configurable by either VIA or VIAL.
Wooting keyboards are also really nice, and are configured through a web interface. It’s also a Dutch company, so if you want to buy European it’s definitely a good choice :)
A web interface? Is the keyboard running a webserver or is it remotely managed by the manufacturers website?
I’m confused about configuring keyboards via web app.
Nah just a website you navigate to and then it communicates over USB. There’s a desktop app too but it’s just an electron wrapper.
…now are those real words, or are you picking out random spoonfuls of alphabet soup?
QMK and ZMK are FOSS firmwares that can run on Atmel AVR and ARM chips like the RP2040.
VIA or VIAL are config utilities that you can use to remap your keyboard on the fly.
I’m going to assume these are open source apps because for some reason that’s how those guys like to name stuff.
Wait for YaQMK and vmk-ng then YaVMK-ngx, which will be forked to yaamksubwthn
Trust the process. Just buy a VIA or VIAL enabled keyboard and enjoy ra easy graphical setup.
I have a Flydigi gamepad and I can use a virtual machine with tiny11 to change the configuration. The connection isn’t super stable but for the few times I have to do it, it works.
Does this mean I can finally stop going back a page when I nudge my mouse the wrong way??
Does this require libratbag?
Use the offline installer, which is for offline and airgapped machines. It turns off the AI prompt builder as well as all the telemetry shite:
https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/11570501236119-Logitech-Options-offline-installer
AI prompt builder? What? It’s a fucking mouse???
It is repulsive to me in its entirety but apparently the vibe coders dig it.
“Vibe coders” read as “fucking idiots”
Why should that be bundled with peripherals… doesn’t seem to be a good “synergy”.
But it has AI? If your mouse doesn’t have AI, you’re living in the past
Edit:
postpastOne could say they are streets behind.
Give me the past or give me death
for this?
Logitech, the data company?!?!
wtf AI in your mouse driver?
Oh yeah, totally not logging your every mouse movement, no sir, not at all!
It’s training itself to pass those mouse based “I’m human” checks that some sites use.
That’s hilarious. But might actually not be a joke.
