• kent_eh@lemmy.ca
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    10 months ago

    You think Trump will “end the genocide”?

    He will go even harder on “USA needs to support Israel defending God’s promised land”.

    Remember he is the one who moved the US embassy to support Netanyahu’s agenda.

    • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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      10 months ago

      With Biden, Democrats are mostly falling in line behind the genocide. It’s a bipartisan genocide, with even Bernie being unwilling to support a ceasefire. With Trump, on the other hand, Democrats would reverse course and actually support a ceasefire to obstruct Trump.

      -but that’s all speculation. I don’t know, for sure, that it would happen that way. What I do know is I won’t vote for genocide, and I will withhold my vote unless Biden changes his policy on Israel. I won’t vote for Trump, I’ll even vote Dem down ticket, but I won’t vote for genocide.

      You, on the other hand, are literally voting for genocide if you support Biden. You just want to absolve yourself of that moral responsibility.

          • Doug Holland@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            We must always always always vote for the turd in every election, for if the turd doesn’t win we’ll be stuck with turd plus vomit.

              • DrZoidbergYes@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                So what is your alternative? Don’t choose the lesser evil and accept the greater evil? What rising up are you doing?

                • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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                  10 months ago

                  By not voting for Democrats one of two things will happen: Most likely they’ll continue shifting right because that’s what all those pro-corporate pieces of shit want to do anyway. Or the party will finally move to the left. I really don’t care which way they go. But I’m done rewarding them for being obstructionists.

                • Nudding@lemmy.world
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                  10 months ago

                  Well if trump wins, it’s fascism and genocide and climate apocalypse. If Joe wins, it’s genocide and climate apocalypse. Y’all need to fuckin rise up lol.

                • Nudding@lemmy.world
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                  10 months ago

                  You’re right. Business as usual neoliberalism will fix the climate! Joe doesn’t mind signing off on more land for drilling, neither does Trump! They’ll be dead in 10 years and won’t have to witness the climate apocalypse lol!

      • rbhfd@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        You just want to absolve yourself of that moral responsibility.

        That’s exactly what you are doing. You’re focusing on this one issue, retreating yourself from the binary decision because neither options stands for what you (or I, or morality) would prefer. Completely ignoring that withdrawing from the choice plays into the hand of the infinitely worse candidate. So by not choosing, you do nothing to stop the situation in Gaza, but might actually make things a lot worse for people all over.

        You can virtue signal that you did not compromise on your believes, while actually helping your country make a worse place.

        • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          You’re focusing on this one issue

          We’ve raised lots of issues. The amounts of the stimulus checks, the way he fucked us over with the BBB, the way he negotiated down for student loan forgiveness, for fucking over the rail workers. The list goes on. Every time we mention something we get shut down. For someone who wants our votes so badly you have a really odd way of showing it.

          • Pratai@lemmy.ca
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            10 months ago

            Now imagine all of that, with a splash of military enforced laws, harder anti-LGBTQ+ laws, defunding the EPA, pulling out of many international agreements, abortion in ANY circumstance being a criminal act….

            Read up on his plans before you do a thing stupid like… NOT voting.

                • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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                  10 months ago

                  I voted for Obama twice and Biden once. Call me whatever you want. At the end of the day, do you need my vote or not? If you want it I’ve given you the terms: don’t elect procorporate trash in the primaries.

        • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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          10 months ago

          Like I said, there are so many other issues that Biden has betrayed me on. This is just the red line. Here and no further.

          You will let Biden do anything he wants to you and beg for more, just to stop Trump. It’s revolting.

          If enough Democrats pressured Biden to endorse a ceasefire by withholding their votes, he would! He’s a politician. That’s what politicians do. This is our only leverage! This is all we can do to stop the genocide, and I really think Biden would reconsider if it looked bad enough.

              • CarniMoss@lemmings.world
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                10 months ago

                I thank god I’m not this illiterate. What do you think Trump’s policy is gonna be? He caters to Republicans who WANT funding to Israel. He pushed the Overton window. What do you think he’s gonna do? Is he gonna weave them baskets and pick them flowers? 🤔

                • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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                  10 months ago

                  I think he’s going to be obstructed by Democrats, who I am voting for down ticket. I think he’s going to ruin Israel’s relations with the rest of the world and turn it into a pariah state. I think he’s going to overextend himself and fail. I think he’s a fat old man and might just die lol

                  • Drusas@kbin.social
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                    10 months ago

                    I’m pretty sure Iran is actively and deliberately pressing the US and its allies to engage in a more widespread war by encouraging and provisioning the Houthis in their current terrorism against unaligned trade ships in the Red Sea.

                    Kind of like how the US is providing unneeded military aid to Israel. Encourages Israel to “go for it” against their enemies. Two sides of a coin, but with Iran being more deliberate in wanting war because Israel is vastly outnumbered by its neighbors and they think they can eradicate it.

                    The US doesn’t want to eradicate the Palestinians; they just don’t care enough about the people stop it. The Iranians want to eradicate the Israelis.

            • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              We slide farther to the right with each passing year regardless of which party wins. You all seem fine with the direction so we’re just upping the timeline. If you want to go in a different direction tell Joe Biden to stop fucking over voters he’s depending on. And tell anyone who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries they’re a fucking asshole.

        • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Good job playing into the hands of the conservatives.

          Tell Joe Biden to stop fucking over voters he’s depending on.

      • Pratai@lemmy.ca
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        10 months ago

        You’re not only supporting the same genocide with a vote for Trump, you’re also supporting all the bigotry, oppression, misogyny, racism, and cowardice that goes along with it.

        And make no mistake- your stubborn refusal to vote against a tyrant over a single issue is what allows said tyrant to rule America.

        We WILL blame you if Trump wins.

      • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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        10 months ago

        But why did this particular flare up in the Palestine-Israel conflict be the hill you’ll die on? Why, for example, didn’t Bidens support for the Saudis against the Houthis, which is much worse by most standards, put you off?

        Secondly: how do you think you’re helping the Palestinians by helping to replace Biden with Trump?

        • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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          10 months ago

          It was Biden going around Congress to give Israel more bombs blow up civilians that really set me off. He didn’t do that for Saudi, he didn’t do it for Ukraine, and he certainly doesn’t do shit like that for Americans who need him to bypass Congress.

          Second, I don’t think Trump will be any better or worse than Biden on Palestine. That’s why I’m not voting for him.

          But I will not vote for genocide. I’d rather die.

          (and I might, since I’m a trans communist in a red state)

          • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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            10 months ago

            Are you sure Trump won’t be worse on Palestine? He was doing their diplomatic legwork all through his term. Moved the embassy to cement Israel’s claim over Jerusalem.

            Biden went around congress and stopped weapon sales to Saudi Arabia thus stopping their genocide in Yemen.

            Trump actually vetoed congress on the same issue so the genocide could continue.

            Effectively, by refusing to stop Trump to spite Biden, you are choosing for two genocides instead of one. On top of all the other things.

              • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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                10 months ago

                Well in the real worreldd, US voters are too weak to fix a broken democratic system. This should be addressed by, best chance, taking over the dnc from within and moving towards a supermajority that supports a better system.

                But today, tomorrow,… Untill that is fixed: the trolley problem is real. To give someone else control of the trolley does nothing to fix the systemic problem. You might think so. Your gut tells you letting things explode might wake up enough people to start a revolution. But history shows it doesn’t.

                You can vote to limit genocide and work towards fixing the system, without compromising the other

                • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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                  10 months ago

                  Your vote lends credibility and mandate to the regime. Your vote says “yes please, I want more of this”. They don’t care that you are actually voting to minimize the damage, they only care that they can do anything they want to you and you’ll beg for more just to stop Trump.

                  Like I said, if this is a trolley problem then we have to derail the trolley.

    • Pratai@lemmy.ca
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      10 months ago

      THIS!!! Omg this! I wish I could agree more!

      I am astounded by how polarized the younger generation is. It’s all, or nothing with them and they can’t see how badly that is going to fuck us up.

      Hey kids….

      LIFE EXISTS WITHIN THE GREY AREA. There’s a thing called NUANCE.

      Deciding to not vote for THE ONE PERION CAPABLE OF KEEPING AMERICA FROM BEING A DICTATORSHIP because of a single issue… is flat-out FUCKING STUPID.

      Get your heads out of your ass!

      • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        It’s not one issue buddy. We’ve had lots of issues with Biden. You’re just so far into denial you’re not hearing us.

        • Soulg@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Yeah, every president has a lot of issues. You’re just demonstrating that you don’t care about electing a dictator.

          • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            So you admit what you just said is a lie? You knew all along we didn’t have just one issue with Biden but you’re out here saying it because you’re a liar? Great. Glad we cleared that up.

        • Rhoeri@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Go ahead and list the issues you think would be worse than what Trump has done, and promises yet to do.

          We’ll all wait here.

          • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Of course Biden wouldn’t be worse than Trump. I don’t care? You’ll have to do better than that if you want my vote. Millions of people had that opportunity in the 2020 primaries and they chose to vote for a procorporate piece of trash. Fuck those people. If they think they can ignore us in the primaries then we’ll ignore their shit candidate in the general. Don’t like it? That’s how democracy works.

            • Rhoeri@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              You’re not getting how this works.

              You’re not voting for Biden? YOU’RE GETTING TRUMP.

              You don’t get to pretend that not voting means you nothing will happen. Right now- you either drink the piss, or you eat the shit. You don’t get to chose neither.

              So either move to another country, or pick one.

              • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                You don’t get to chose neither.

                Right, my choice was made for me by selfish pieces of shit in the 2020 primaries who chose a procorporate trash candidate. They can go fuck themselves.

    • Coasting0942@reddthat.com
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      10 months ago

      Trump did say what he would have done, but given it’s Trump he’d probably not do what he said:

      Trump criticized Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, lauded Hezbollah militants as “very smart” and sought political gain from the attacks that killed 1,200 people by claiming that if the last election was not “rigged,” he’d be the American president and they’d never have happened.