- cross-posted to:
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- privacy@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@lemmy.smeargle.fans
- privacy@lemmy.ml
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Clickbait, he tweeted “inaccuracy in the ASUS router tool” later on.
In a follow-up post a day after his initial Tweet, Johnie noted “inaccuracy in the ASUS router tool,” with regard to Apple iMessage data use. Other LG smart washing machine users showed device data use from their router UIs. It turns out that these appliances more typically use less than 1MB per day.
the writer knew that the stats were bunk, yet wrote the article anyway. the site knew this, too, tacked-on the clickbait headline and published it. toms really has gone to shit the last few years–at least under the current ownership (last changed hands 2018).
Speaking of which, it uses the same web interface as a lot of other news sites. Newsletter popup, autoplay video part-way down that then jumps to the top of the screen, etc. What Hifi is the same, and there are various other sites all with the same annoying engine. Two questions: (1) are all these sites owned by the same company and (2) is there a browser extension that can fix them?
yes, it’s the same ownership (scroll down to the bottom). they have dozens of sites. don’t know of any specific addons to help with them, though. custom ublock origin rules, perhaps.
A good adblocker can fix it. Like uBlock Origin on Firefox.
This is happening with streaming apps too. Max and Prime look exactly the same. Either some UI engineer got hella contracts, a parent company tried to save on development, or both. Either way, theres something unnerving about your apps looking the same and just hosting different content.
and here we are 17 hours later with it as one of the top stories on this site.
We are soooooooo reddit 2.0.
And OP presumably read the article, knew there was no actual story, and posted it here anyway.
Thanks for saving me the click.
Anybody in his right minds wouldn’t connect a washing machine to WiFi in the first place.
I dunno about you, but I would love to get a notification on my watch when the machine has finished it’s cycle. The stupid high pinched repeated beeping noise sucks… especially when it’s the next door neighbour’s washing machine and they’re not even home, so it goes on and on for fucking hours. And I’d like to see proper error descriptions on my phone, instead of just “UE” on the timer LCD. WTF is a “UE” error?
If we’re going to get really fancy… I’d love to be able to load the machine in the morning, but tell it to actually start running several hours later while I’m at work. I obviously don’t want clean wet clothes going mouldy in the washing machine all day… but I don’t really want to run the washing machine when I’m home either, because it’s noisy.
Remote activation would also be better for the environment and also better for my clothes - I’d use the the slow gentle economy cycle every time if I could remotely trigger it at 3pm on a weekday. I’m definitely not going to use that on the evenings (when I’ll be asleep in 3 hours) or on weekends (when I don’t know if I’ll be home in 3 hours time).
A wifi connected washing machine sounds like a great feature to me, and I’d happily pay for it (with dollars, not with an invasion of privacy). I guess that means I won’t be buying an LG.
I don’t know. My washing machine beeps three times in increasing intervals, so it isn’t that intrusive. The display shows me unique error codes that I can look up when someone happens. And I can set the machine to finish in a set amount of hours, so it will start just in time to be done when I’m back. All without WiFi
Mine is in part of the house that I’m very likely to hear it when in most.of the rest of the house.
But I agree in general, and I wouldn’t use it. And I have way more home automation stuff set up (and a dedicated non-infernet-connected network for it) than most people.
My home assistant tracks the power usage of my washing machine (via a Tasmota plug) and notifies me when the power goes under a threshold for a few minutes. Which happens at the end of the washing cycle.
WTF is a “UE” error?
User Error, as always /s
How old is your washing machine? All of the washing machines that I have had over the last 15 years have had unique error codes, a button combination to turn off the buzzer and a delayed end functionality. Just set the program, click on the clock icon and set the program end time.
wet clothes going mouldy in the washing machine all day.
Never heard such a thing. I recommend to get a German one. Seriously.
I do something very similar with my connected dishwasher and Home Assistant. It’s way over-engineered due various limitations/odd design choices with the API and the machine itself), but I’ve got it setup to store the selected program when I press a button on a Hue Tap switch, and then it turns on and runs that program when our off-peak energy rate kicks in - which is better than working out how much to set on the delay timer each evening to start it in the right ballpark.
Of course I’ve also got it setup to announce the selected program, and that the machine is “armed” via Google Home when the button is pressed, and again each time the door is opened/closed to add new dishes. And it sends notifications to my phone when the program starts (mostly for debugging purposes) and ends.
Like I said, massively over-engineered but it was a fun little project.
I don’t have a smart washing machine (yet) but I do have it plugged into a smart plug with an energy monitor. When the power usage drops to near zero for more than 2 minutes it sends a notification to tell me that the cycle is done.
I’d connect it to wifi maybe. I wouldn’t connect it to the Internet.
When it comes to home automation I’m generally onboard, but it’s local control or nothing.
That’s a good strategy. You can do a lot of smart home automation with two separate networks, where one has Internet access and the other doesn’t.
Here’s a reminder, keep your old routers, having an extra can really come in handy.
Will wifi switches locked down to home network only still function?
You can have a WiFi access point that isn’t connected to the internet. A lot of consumer devices will complain but that’s not WiFi’s problem.
What?
Anybody in his right minds wouldn’t
connectbuy a washing machinetowith WiFi in the first place.Ftfy
Said this elsewhere recently, family had a washing machine for 30 years, from when I was little to in my 30’s. Just fixed as needed. Could’ve still fixed it when they replaced it, just felt it was time.
I’ve never had dirty clothes come out of a washing machine, using cold water and powder soap. Not sure why people think an agitator needs all this nonsense attached.
I still buy my machines used off Craigslist. Current one (apartment style) is 20 years old, I’ve had it for 5 if them. Cost me less than $200. Replaced a spring for $20 so far.
There are no IoT/smart devices in my house (well, damn TV, but I’m workin on that).
Only company that makes dumb TVs anymore is Scepter, but those TV are a dice roll cause in the same model 1 tv can have a great screen and 1 can have a horrible one… and I’ve had the bad luck of the draw to get multiple bad screens that looked like shit.
So I gave up and bought a TLC.
I cracked it open and unplugged the wifi antenna though, cause you can bet your ass that bitch will never have a chance to phone home and report any and all network snooping.
Would a large monitor with a streaming box work?
Hopefully. I fear the day I plug in a new monitor and the damn thing pops up a “Please enter your wifi username and password to use this monitor”
Gonna pay out the fucking ass if you want 4k but yes.
As an appliance repair man if 20 years don’t ever connect your application to the wifi.
Knowing what part of the cycle your washing machine is in at all times is useless information.
Exactly. Everyone has a device that can tell them when the machine is done. It is the programmable alarm in everyone’s mobile phone.
Why would anyone need a Wi-Fi enabled washing machine. You put clothes in it, and then use the same setting you use every single time you use it, why do you need a complicated interface with a smartphone app for that?
Why not?
My washing machine has wi-fi. I didn’t buy it for that reason, but it just happens to. Using the app, I have some programme options that aren’t possible to select using the hardware dials. I can do things like change the detergent dosage and the number of additional rinse cycles. It has some “special” programmes for various specific fabrics. And it has things like maintenance diagnostics and the ability to run a specific self-cleaning cycle.
That’s all pretty useful.
And what’s the actual danger of connecting it to wi-fi? Will Big Data know how often I wash my towels? Do I need to worry about the government spying on my fabric softener usage? Will hackers seize control of my machine and ransom my ability to get clean underwear?
I just can’t see the big downside here (other than the fact that the machine is more complicated than it needs to be, but that ship has already sailed seeing as I already own it).
And what’s the actual danger of connecting it to wi-fi?
Not so much that hackers will ransom the washing machine, but that hackers can use IoT devices as a back-door to get into your home network and take over everything else too.
Will hackers seize control of my machine and ransom my ability to get clean underwear?
It’s more likely that they’d seize control of it and add it to their botnet. Which is exactly what it looks like happened here. There was a small package downloaded, then a large amount of outgoing data. That looks like a compromised IoT device being used for a botnet. Small incoming package to hack the device, then the device starts spamming some poor dude across the country as part of a DDOS, because he beat a script kiddie in a COD match and the script kiddie is salty about it.
My washing machine has wi-fi. I didn’t buy it for that reason, but it just happens to. Using the app
So you did not just connect it to your home wifi, but you also allowed the vendor to connect it to their servers. Now the vendor knows the name of your WiFi and the password. Just to begin with. Next year maybe this vendor’s website will get hacked and 20000 such wifi passwords go public in some darknet :-)
Using the app, I have some programme options that aren’t possible to select using the hardware dials.
Who benefits? You may find it cool to have it in the app, but FIRST the vendor has saved some of their money by not building the needed dials and buttons for these functions. (Or did they give you that discount? ;-))
And maybe in 3 years from now, they don’t feel like maintaining your app anymore. Are you going to shout “WARRANTY” at them?
I just can’t see the big downside here (other than the fact that the machine is more complicated than it needs to be
Yes, that is a downside, too. Part of this ‘smartness’ could break and maybe even the whole thing stops working when these ‘diagnostics’ give false data.
Another huge point is: My washing machines so far have lasted between 8 - 15 years. But NEVER has any wifi-active device lived that long. Think about this difference, and who’s the one who benefits from it?
When it starts spying on you, sending conversations, like many smart cars, it is just the beginning.
It doesn’t have a microphone or camera, or any other way of recording my conversations. Other than laundry-related data, it really doesn’t know anything worth sharing.
What if it does, but you don’t know about it because it is buried in the terms and conditions?
It’s mainly done for smart bome feature. People want fully automated homes, and right now more than 90% of all "smart devices are basically botnets. Zigbee ftw.
But then anybody can connect to its default broadcast. Better to pair it to something you can control.
It’s smart not to connect “smart” devices
Well the missing socks have to get sent somewhere… /s
Yes, socks can turn into a lot of data really fast, especially if they are multithreaded. Which is why I only use single threaded socks to protect my dataplan.
So much for my fibre connection…
This is the same reason why you dont feed farrets string (or thread, etc…) /s
Given that one sperm has 27.5 MB of data (which means each orgasm has over 7 petabytes of information!) I think we can safely assume which socks his washer is transmitting.
Given that one sperm has 27.5 MB of data (which means each orgasm has over 7 petabytes of information!)
Redundancy!
I believe that fluids don’t, in general, compress. But maybe the trick is turning them to digital data first and then redundancy makes them very compressible.
The info in each sperm is effectively identical, so it’s still only 27.5 MB of data in the whole thing, just with a lot of redundancy for error detection / correction.
You wouldn’t download a sock
I’m too lazy to Photoshop it into a real image
I’m sure they’re being downloaded to Russia and then sold back to the west to finance the war!
Modem = Materializer and De-Materializer
No it couldn’t. My washing machine cant connect to my network! I can’t think of a valid reason why I would even want that.
I tried it with our dish washer, just to see what it’s about. Turns out it’s all about nothing. It’s absolutely void of any useful functionality.
I can think of a very valid reason. I very often forget that I ran the washing machine, I’m already investigating how to send a notification to my phone or computer after it is done. Right now I am checking how much electricity it consumes and when it stops doing it. But a API would be nicer.
stick a bell onto it and take a moment to listen whenever you want to check.
To wake the baby up?
What about a NFC tag that starts a timer on your phone?
On one hand, it would be nice for us to drop the smart plug here, but at least those can be entirely local-only. I highly doubt any device API would be local.
Have you considered setting an alarm on your phone?
Yeah, I don’t get it. I guess I can see the appeal of some “Internet Of Things” connected appliances, like smart fridges suggesting recipes and keeping track of stock and auto-populating shopping lists for you. I don’t need that personally, but I can see why it could appeal to some people.
But things like washing machines and dishwashers? You need to be there in person to fill them up just before they’re ready to go on, and to empty them when they’re done. And when they’re not turned on, they’re sat there doing nothing. What “smart” functions can they even offer?
What “smart” functions can they even offer?
Notification that the cycle is finished and checking how much is left.
But that’s about it.
And also providing more programs and options without having to tack on a full-colour LCD or anything like that. Pretty much just a cost saving measure on the manufacturing.
My washer has WiFi but I’m sure as hell not turning it on. It tells me how long the cycle will be a few minutes after it starts and I’ll just set a timer on my phone - though most of the time I don’t bother because I never have so many loads that time is important.
Oh, don’t get me wrong. I had an LG washer and dryer with those “smart” features. Out of curiosity I tried it once. The app wanted every permission short of asking for my DNA and to be my power of attorney. And then once setup it just… barely worked. It was buggier than an ActiveX plugin running on IE5. I nuked the app off my phone and booted the LG’s off the network and didn’t touch the smart crap for the rest of the 5 years I had them.
buggier than an ActiveX plugin running on IE5
💀
though most of the time I don’t bother because I never have so many loads that time is important.
That’s a big part of my confusion about this “feature”.
How big a deal is it of you miss the end of the cycle by a few minutes? Or even an hour?
Most of the applications they are trying to cram IoT into are pretty pointless in the vast majority of cases.
Well, everyone is in a hurry sometimes; sometimes you suddenly realize you need a certain piece of clothing clean asap. I could see a notification being useful to busy parents with teenagers with a lot of laundry to be done. I’ve heard of families that do multiple loads every day.
The joke when I was a kid was the remote control toaster.
I guess I can see the appeal of some “Internet Of Things”
IoT, where the “S” stands for security…
Because it’s advertised. That’s why.
A remarkable (and actually concerning) percentage of people completely lack the critical thinking skills to question whether that’s a good idea. The box says it has WiFi, WiFi is good, so I connect it to WiFi. Simple as that.
LG’s app is an absolute privacy nightmare too. That app must be used if you want access to any smart appliance features and it requires precise location permissions 100% of the time. Even then, the app features are mediocre, it doesn’t work very well and often doesn’t notify of a finished wash load until long after it’s completed.
Why anyone would want to allow their washing machine manufacturer to continuously track their exact location in exchange for some crappy, poorly implemented features is beyond me.
Thanks for pointing out the location service thing. I just killed that shit.
The LG app also checks SafetyNet/Play Integrity so you can’t use it with root. They probably fear that you can then unleash how much more of a privacy nightmare it is.
They probably want to see at which aisle your washing machine spends the most time on its grocery trip.
I just use a timer on my phone … average wash cycle I use is about 30 minutes … just set a timer on your phone … KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid
Just looked at the app’s permission settings on my phone… set to only allow location while being used.
Like you I don’t see much use for the app, though the notifications can be handy if you want to know when a load us finished and you can’t hear it’s beeps. I work out of my basement with my washer upstairs so that can be the case with me. But still rare that I ever use it.
I deleted the app and disconnected my LG appliances from wifi over a year ago. Maybe they fixed the issue.
Thinking back, I seem to remember that in order to receive notifications the app had to be running in the background while phone location was turned on, giving LG precise location tracking all the time. Is that no longer the case?
I’ve re-enabled notifications now and was receiving them fine with location setting of “only when app in use”. Then this morning I disabled location permissions entirely for the app and I continue to receive the notifications.
The one useful feature I’ve missed is a high temperature warning for my refrigerator, so since they fixed the app it may be time for another try. Thanks for checking that out.
I don’t think so. I’ve had the notifications off though so I’m not 100%. I turned them back on so I’ll know soon enough.
Imagine spending extra money on a new clothes washer only to have someone turn it in to a crypto miner. 😬
I’m too lazy to come up with a witty money laundering joke.
It really irritates me when IoT devices force you to use “the cloud” for access. My home automation consists of roughly 100 devices. The vast majority are Zigbee, but a few use wifi. With the exception of my irrigation controller, all the wifi devices are blocked at the firewall from accessing the internet. The fact that I have to send a command half way across the country to a remote server only so it can send it right back to my home network when I want to change the watering schedule for my plants is ridiculous. Sure, I could buy a different controller, but I already spent $300 once. I’m not doing it again.
You should explain this to your plants so they show the appropriate level of gratitude.
Will wifi switches locked down to home network only still function?
If it has an API that can be used locally, then sure. That’s the whole point of Zigbee, is that it’s an open standard that any IoT devices can connect to and use. So you can send local commands to any local Zigbee device, as long as they have an API that allows for it.
Open standard… hah… like bacnet was supposed to be? More and more i deal with bacnet devices that make some data unreadable (proprietary) so what was the point?
Agree with other posts about sending data to the cloud to work. Also I’m certainly way behind on my washing machine tech because I can’t fathom a reason they should be online. So I can get an alert when the cycle is done? Ok fine… stupid but fine - as long as it stays local.
It depends on the switch. If it has an API or an app that can be used locally, then yes.
Why are people connecting their machines to wifi in the first place?
I can understand wanting it on your local network. Being able to check remotely how much time is remaining. Getting alerts if it needs maintenance. In a big house with multiple family members all doing laundry, just checking to see if the machine is in use before hauling all your stuff down could be nice. But, that info doesn’t need to leave the house. I don’t know why you’d want that information leaving the house.
You know, I really like to know if my washing machine has finished when I am on vacation. /s
Im guessing your timing it out to get just the perfect amount of mildew and mold.
If you need more kick you can start it again remotely.
I might need a mold monitor.
Well, if your washing machine takes that long!?
Or, wait… your vacations are that short??
:-)
It’s for those spots that are really burned in. 🔥
It’s starts with a sales pitch (not just to you, it’s sales pitches all the way down) about how the washer can send the user status, maybe let them schedule, etc. They probably have an app to pair with it to keep it all in-house. One thing leads to another, every appliance gets wifi and sends a ton of data to a totally undoubtedly secure and anonymous centralized server full of harmless data for the sake of saving the customer 15 steps.
Big Brother didn’t ride in on the back of a commie tank, he was invited in for the slightest increase of convenience.
My smart appliances serve as nodes for Pied Piper’s new decentralized internet.
Shut up Jared
It tells them when the cycle is done. Which apparently a beep can’t do.
My machines are in a disconnected garage. There’s no hearing the beep. And the wash time varies due to load size, to the point that the estimate on the screen isn’t very accurate, so seeing a timer isn’t great either.
I have never bothered to connect them to wifi yet, though. But a phone notification would have is uses.
That makes sense. My inlaws have theirs hooked to alexa and the machines are the next room over from their living room. Seems like a little over kill.
a kitchen timer or a timer on your phone will be close enough. set it for your own estimate based on experience when you get back in the house from stuffing a load in the washer.
IoT = bad
The ‘S’ in IoT stands for security
Internet of Targets
Plot twist: it was the Asus router misreporting the amount of data.
If you buy a “smart” washing machine and actually connect it to the internet, you deserve what you get.
I can think of a few smart functionalities of a washer that’d be nice. None of these would be motivation enough to buy one though, unless it was open source, which I’d guess isn’t a thing.
Yeah, I wouldn’t mind getting a notification on my phone … sometimes I don’t hear the little chime or I do but I’m the middle of something and forget.
Exactly. That’s a small benifit to potentially sacrifice your privacy for though, so they’re still a hard sell for me.
Literally get a vibration sensor and an esp32. Push notifications for a change in sensor value. Hoorah. No one needs to start it from their phone. You physically have to move the shit around anyways.
That’s actually a really good idea. I might do that.
The smart people don’t connect these “smart” devices to the network
I don’t even let my smart TV connect to the internet. Why would I help it fetch ads for me lol
That means you don’t get any of the benefits of it being a smart TV. Which is fine, but unlike a washing machine there are actually obvious benefits for a smart TV.
Yeah except you can’t really find a TV without the “smart” features anymore and I already have an echo cube thingy that does the smart stuff lol. So in my case it’s not really a waste to leave it off. My other TV is connected to the internet and I can’t even go to the gd settings page without being bombarded with ads it’s super dumb
Not like there’s a choice to not buy a smart TV.
Everything comes internet enabled, runs software that won’t receive updates, comes with a shitty phone app, and some sort of subscription service either to enable features or auto buy product.
Until a robot can hang up my washing, my machine is staying off any networks
When it can you should still setup a private network just for them to communicate
Yep, one for private use, one for this kind of machines and one for guests. But still, in theory it could be sending sensitive data regardless of network setup.
Bought “smart” LG fridge, range and dishwasher a couple of years ago and never connected any of them, they function like they are supposed to, refrigerate, heat food and clean dirty dishes. No need to connect.
Fridge manual explained something like “in case of peak energy consumption your smart energy company can send a signal to your fridge to not use power”. What the heck do I need that for? To find spoiled food and mold growing in the fridge later on?
Why does one need to connect a range to WiFi?
Some people have hourly electric pricing, in their case it’s worth scheduling stuff based on predicted pricing. How that should work is that you’d have a home server which controls your IoT stuff (so the gadgets themselves can be firewalled from the internet and controlled only by you) and then your server would fetch pricing data and pause stuff that doesn’t need to run when prices are high and run stuff like washing when it’s cheap
TIL - cool, makes sense.
It would make sense if we had a server that could fetch prices instead of opening up potential weak systems to the internet.
Turning your fridge off for an hour will not cause your food to spoil. You probably won’t even notice a difference since they are well insulated. Turning off the compressor during the hour where most of everyone gets home and turns on their AC can have a noticeable effect on grid stability if done widely enough. I do this with a smart switch connected to my HA server instead of using cloud based connections, but the effect is the same and I’ve never had my food spoil because of it.
As a guy with some tendencies to worry if I turned my stove off Everytime I leave the house, this feature seems right up my list of needs
Thanks for that pov! I had not considered it and to my surprise I just thought of someone in my family that has the same type of worry you do, and that person would probably benefit from that kind of peace of mind like you suggested.
Because now manufacturers are tying the last year of their warranty to having the devices connected to their stupid information harvesting apps.
Ugh! Now that you say that we are probably not far away from WiFi enabled ranges being a feature… that WHEN enabled will allow you to:
- Cook uninterrupted or at any time of that day
- Get discounted prices on gas
- Get discounts on home/renters insurance
- Receive discounts on range/oven cleaners
- Enable the back burners
- Enable broiling capability
- Allow in oven light to be turned on and off
- Claim warranties (as you suggested)
The only reason I used my range’s WiFi is to preheat it from downstairs or the store lol
what the heck is a range? search results are expectedly useless as it’s an extremely common word for something else
It’s an oven with a stove on top. Google “cooking range”.
I’ve never called it that, but that’s the name for it.
Thats gonna me my new excuse when I loose in CoD. The washing machine was clogging up the Network.
It was busy uploading a sock.
