Today, before taking an Uber home, she sent me a text wanting me to be downstairs on the street to greet her as the Uber arrives. I read it and told her that yes, I’ll be there. I didn’t notice any further text because I was in the middle of something.
Later, I hear the door opening and went to our door to greet her, she was furious and refused to talk to me. I realized I forgot to turn my phone back from silent mode after work today. I told her that it is my bad, she still refused to talk to me. At this point, things are still normal for our relationship, she would usually become willing to talk after a while.
I usually go to sleep at 22:30 and she knows, so I thought we’d sort things out tomorrow and went to bed. I woke up in the middle of the night (later I found out it was 1a.m.) to her standing next to my bed (we sleep in separate bedrooms), and she began asking a series of pointed questions: “What would you do if you found out that I was gone?”, “What would you do if the CCTV on our street is broken by chance?”, “What would you tell my mother if I went missing?”, “If I was actually kidnapped, would you kill the guy for me?”
You know, the usual. I thought she’s just angry at me still and wanted to vent, so I went along with her for the time being: “I’d be very worried and look for you everywhere”, “I’d sue the city”, “I’d tell your mother exactly what happened and say I’m sorry”, and “I’d kill the guy who kidnapped you”.
She grumbled and asked a few follow-up questions, like “if you’re planning to kill the guy, what would you do with our cat?” But at this point, I think she’s finding it difficult to stay angry at me. I tell her again that I’m sorry I missed her text, and that next time this happens, she should just call me to make sure I see her text, but she left soon after without acknowledging my apology.
I know I’m in the wrong for missing her text. Not trying to argue otherwise. My question is, am I really responsible if someone kidnaps her between getting off the Uber and getting into our apartment complex? Is she trying to guilt trip me into thinking her anger is justified or am I really a horrible, kidnap-facilitating bad person for missing a few texts?
Edit for context: we live in a pretty safe city that ranks top 10 in the world on low crime rate. Also, thank you all for educating me on what gaslighting actually means. It was 2 in the morning when I posted this, I did not have the energy to find the answer myself.
I don’t think it’s gaslighting. Gaslighting is manipulating someone into questioning their perception of reality. This is being angry at someone.
I can’t really relate. Is it really that dangerous where you live? We probably live in different countries but I don’t have CCTV in the residential area where I live. And usually in the summer, it’s still bright enough at 10pm an people are still around and it’s safe enough for women to walk home alone. At least in most places.
It’s pretty safe where we live afaik, also CCTV is everywhere here especially in and around the big cities.
So, London?
I get that you’re trying to get more info to help OP out better, but I think that it’s better to drop this “where are you from?” talk. Privacy-wise it’s rather problematic, you know? [Sorry for the uncalled advice.]
Asking someone their country of residence is privacy intruding? Lol
In the strictest sense perhaps, but I dont think a criminal could make something of the knowledge that I am from Germany.
As a wise man once said, “just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean that they aren’t after you.” Oh wait, that was Kurt Cobain, not a wise man.
Jokes aside, don’t assume that a piece of info about someone else is fine to share, because it is for you. OP likely has their reasons and that’s to be respected. (NB: this is coming from someone who doesn’t mind even sharing their city online.)
Asking someone their country of residence is privacy intruding? Lol
I am from Germany
If you were really from Germany, you’d never have given that much personal information up voluntarily!
Eh, at best you could create a shadow profile of me. I scrubbed the internet of my actual identity years ago, but you could probably piece together a semi accurate john doe of me from various bits of information I shared on here over the time.
Lmao it was a joke because London is known for their extremely extensive CCTV network
Then I derped. My bad!
U ain’t wrong…
While info is useful, it ain’t worth breaking opsec for it
OP gave some clues, though. I think the comment with “London” was meant to be a joke. But it’s true that this kind of surveillance is common in Britain, some parts of Asia and some random big cities. And OP knows how to write the time of the day properly, so they’re certainly not from the USA. 😉
Haha, our city has a much lower crim rate than London actually.
Yeah, sometimes perceived reality and the real reality are two things. And there are places where you can’t walk on the streets as a woman. I’m not sure if it’s about fear in your case. Or just because you broke your promise but there isn’t any fear involved.
Anyways, in relationships general advice is to talk to each other. Ask her what’s bothering her. Maybe it’s a pretend reason and there is something deeper that’s bothering her. Maybe this was the proper reason. Maybe she’s a resentful person. Maybe she just had a bad day.
Unless it happens regularly or there are other factors to it, I wouldn’t necessarily attribute it to malice or be a manipulation strategy…
If I was actually kidnapped, would you kill the guy for me?
This is a pretty massive red flag right here, IMO. I wouldn’t stick around any person that asks this question. If a person is kidnapped there are like a million other steps you can take that lead to the kidnapper rotting in jail and the victim’s SO not being put in jail for murder.
Eh.
It could be just her going thru possible consequences out loud. Maybe intentionally to drive the point home about what could have happened.
Like, this is some real shit that women do always need to be aware of, and men just never fucking think about, because we don’t have to.
OP could live in a super sketch area where this level of vigilance is warranted and this shit could be going thru her head.
Like from her POV OP didn’t take the risk serious enough to meet her, if he’s not willing to do that, her mind is running thru where the line is on what he would do. You zero into that by asking big questions. And again, it could be to try and set in the possible consequences.
Like, her wanting to know what level of commitment he has to her safety. I doubt it was extrajudicial executions in her mind, and more Liam Niessons style rescue as a rhetorical device.
For a woman a partner who values their security and safety is important both on an instinctual and sadly still practical level. They have a lot more threats then the average dude will ever think about, especially when young and in the dating stages of life. Even married men sometimes don’t learn about it till later when they have kids their responsible for.
… Nah. As a woman, this is not a question I would ever think to ask anyone, regardless of how unsafe I felt. How does agreeing to murder someone AFTER something happens to you help you feel more safe? It doesn’t, at all. Besides, she could have called him from the Uber when she didn’t see him outside. It’s not like they just kick you out of the car immediately.
OP described this behavior as “the usual,” which means this is a thing she does regularly. I would say this isn’t normal for most people to do regularly. If the location is actually not safe, then the conversation should be centered around “when are we going to move somewhere safer?” rather than “how would you murder someone if they hurt me” and especially getting into the specifics of “what would you do with the cat while doing the murder…?” I think this might be some kind of recurring “daycare” or maladaptive fantasy that keeps playing out in her imagination. There are certainly steps she could take to keep herself safe. But because she doesn’t, she feels powerless and then blames OP for her perceived lack of safety. OP cannot be responsible for her safety 24/7. That is an unfair expectation to have of anyone.
I agree with everything you said here except you’re read on that question. There’s a huge area between expecting your partner to take your personal safety seriously, and expecting your partner to kill for you. One of those is a reasonable ask, the other is a reasonable excuse to leave.
and expecting your partner to kill for you.
Some questions are hypothetical or even rhetorical
And honestly on a deeper level there are reasons for women to suddenly go down these hypothetical scenarios related to safety, on a fairly regular basis.
There’s just too much context and subtlies that we can’t know for anyone to give a 100% answer on if a reaction like this is warranted.
Hypothetical and rhetorical questions designed to evoke contemplative but reasoned thought, or absurd hilarities, or a plausible future scenario are one thing.
Its completely different when its an absurd loyalty bullshit test that only has wrong answers.
Answer with loyalty to the point that it endangers your own life?
Ok, status quo.
Answer reasonably, or ask why such ridiculous questions are being asked?
Anger, grief, ammo to use in future arguments.
This scenario was extremely and needlessly combative on the female partner’s part.
Even if this person was legitimately traumatized by past or recent events, that does not make her behavior acceptable.
I hope she (out of anger) autofilled “the worst thing I can think of“ as an attempt to match for “one of the worst things I can think of happening to me”.
A desire for extrajudicial revenge is something I’d expect from really immature people. (In contexts uncommon for me, perhaps I’d expect it from those who’ve been wronged by the justice system, or for those whom the system doesn’t seem to play a productive role in their environment.)
Wonder if there’s a test of sorts that could reveal more here - if someone insults her, would she expect him to “defend her honor” at risk the personal safety of them both?
and that’s missing the fact that the kidnapper usually doesn’t leave a business card behind, so he wouldn’t have clue who to kill 😂
None of that is gaslighting. However, it’s a red flag.
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No, it doesn’t. Nothing here screams fear of abandonment. It screams insecurity, it screams anxiety, it screams mentally unhealthy, but this doesn’t say anything that could highlight BPD, or any other disorder.
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It absolutely does not. I’m not sure what you guys aren’t reading here, but the very first paragraph is about her wanting HIM to greet her when she arrived home in the Uber.
Being scared of being kidnapped is not fear of abandonment.
Y’all aren’t helping him if you’re telling him the wrong reasons to do the right thing. That ends up hurting both.
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Jumping in, I also have a lot of BPD experience (example, a marriage of well over 10 years).
This is very BPD-adjacent. I’m not saying OP’s gf has it per se, because there is no way we can know from here, but this is definitely on brand.
If you read between the lines, the social conversation could written as this:
“Heading home, I need support”
“I’ll support”
<Doesn’t support>
<She feels abandoned, fight or flight kicks in and it turns her attachment-avoidant, results in silent treatment>
<OP gives space, which is interpreted as further abandonment>
<OPGF can’t take it anymore, and asks questions that feel like they’re out of left field because in fight-or-flight kicks in, clear thought is nearly impossible>
<OP finally gives reassurance that he didn’t abandon her>
<Normalcy continues>
RyanLiu@lemmy.world read through this comment chain, therapy is the answer here.
She is emotionally abusing you.
- She needs therapy.
- If she doesnt get therapy, sadly, the relationship needs to end. In this situation, be prepared to get a restraining order.
I can’t relate as well, as I live in a city where things are really really aafe. But there are places where a women are afraid to walk alone in the dark, even for a few steps. (And even in safe places some people are quite afraid)
I’d be very careful with remote diagnosis. You. might be right, she needs therapy. She might just be afraid, because something bad happened to her some time.
The only way is for OP to have a good talk with her what’s bothering her - and then he may come to a conclusion. As of now, there’s just not enough information.
Yes, I’m hedging it off her making up a new reason, the cat, to stay angry.
And that he already has a whole sentence of things he knows he has to say.
It’s true that the place may be dangerous. However, if it were, (1) you’d think OP would have known that already and not made the mistake of letting her walk in alone, and (2) she didn’t have to start with the absurd questioning in the middle of the night. She could have waited for a time when both of them were more mentally available.
I’ve been in dangerous cities and situations. You either address issues in the moment or if it’s no longer an immediate issue, whenever it’s a good time. They sleep in separate rooms, yet was standing over him in the kiddle of the night, then once he woke up, she started with an angry guilt trip disguised as fear. That was 100% her punishing him so that he wouldn’t ever not make her the priority at all times again.
You know, the usual.
I’m sure it’s been said already, but there is nothing usual about what you described. She sounds unstable and you should reconsider this relationship.
But to be pedantic, nothing about what you described sounds even remotely like gaslighting.
Just to clarify your second statement, gaslighting is when person A tries to convince person B that person B did not see/hear/experience something that person B did in fact see, hear, or experience.
In OP’s situation, their girlfriend might be gaslighting OP if she texted “I’m getting an Uber home, see you in a bit” and then got mad and insisted she had told OP to meet her at the door.
All that said, I will echo many others in this thread and say that just because it isn’t gaslighting doesn’t mean OP is in a healthy relationship. OP, please insist on relationship counseling at a minimum.
It is absolutely needless, unreasonable guilt tripping, though.
I know I’m in the wrong for missing her text
You are not.
Source: 20 years of a successful marriage.
Your partner has some issues she seems to need to work through. Entertaining her delusions probably won’t help her.
“What would you do if you found out that I was gone?”, “What would you do if the CCTV on our street is broken by chance?”, “What would you tell my mother if I went missing?”, “If I was actually kidnapped, would you kill the guy for me?”
You know, the usual.
Are you ok? Blink twice if you’re ok
the usual? what the fuck kind of people have you dated so far that asking a series of gone girl fantasy questions in the middle of the night acting like Kathy Bates from Misery is usual?
I was thinking the same thing.
She asked me to murder someone. You know, couples stuff.
I have dated exactly 1 (one) girl. I am her first relationship as well. Maybe we just don’t know what is normal lmao
If there is one lesson I could teach my younger self, it would be to have several low commitment relationships while I was younger to learn what is “normal”. Once you start making murder pacts, it’s usually too late.
I dated in high-school but now I have been single for like 10 years, I feel so lost now it’s insane
I wish I had good advice for how to connect with people after the school years, that’s just difficult.
Being paralysed by adhd and thus playing video-games all day didn’t really help, I’m hoping to land a job soon and meet new people this way
Oh well, 7 years too late for me lmao
It’s never too late to break up. People get divorced with really complicated lives and they’re both better off. It will only get worse if you stick around. You should consider therapy together, although I think she really needs it on her own. She has to be willing to change her behavior.
what is normal lmao
It’s not, she’s crazy. Like “GTFO and block her ASAP” crazy.
This ain’t it. I can smell the batshit from here.
The bitch is crazy, get rid of her asap
Yeah, this is seriously manipulative. I actually wouldn’t consider it gaslighting per se, which is a much more specific thing where a person is trying to make you think you’re losing your mind. This is just bog-standard manipulative behavior.
As someone who is in a long-term relationship with a partner who struggled with these kind of issues when we met…
She has to be willing to understand this is a problem, and even if her fears are justified, she needs help, because berating you and being manipulative by asking super loaded questions (especially in the middle of the night, wtf. she needs some work on boundaries, too) is in no way shape or form a normal or healthy aspect of any functioning relationship.
Be ready to accept that sometimes things like manipulative behavior come from things like fears of abandonment. It doesn’t make them okay, but it should give us pause and consider that people aren’t doing it because they want to hurt us. It took me a while to understand my partner was doing things that pushed me away because she was scared of losing me, because it’s totally backwards in my mind. It just means you have to consider the possibility that this isn’t because she’s selfish, but actually potentially dealing with other kinds of mental health issues. She still needs to work on it, and she still needs help for it, but please have a little compassion.
Be willing to go to counseling with her if you want to try to make it work, but she has to be able to see what she has done, show sincere regret, and want to change. It can take time, and everyone deserves that chance, but only if they’re willing to put in the work.
If she’s unable or unwilling to accept how hurtful and manipulative what she did was, and that she at the very least needs counseling, then you need to consider ending it.
EDIT: I should be clear that “putting in the work” means up to and including: getting a mental health diagnosis, getting medication, getting a psychiatrist, getting a counselor whose field is focused on helping people with specifically this diagnosis, and then working through their problems.
Your girlfriend is an immature child and manipulative.
You can’t make somebody like that happy. It won’t get better either. You can try reason with her but maturity issue will prevent her from out growing it.
She will need a few more boyfriends if she is ever to to learn why this clown behavior is no good.
This is absolutely manipulative.
Whether she realizes it or not, refusing to engage or talk about it, except in her own time frame- is not a good sign for a healthy relationship, and when she did decide to talk about it, put you into a compromised position- being unable to think clearly.
The questions she’s asking are meant to elicit fear and massive guilt. Though to be blunt, I’m going to assume there’s no real danger of any of that happening, I assume the neighborhood is fairly safe. Because usually it is.
As for what you’d do…? Call the cops. Duh. You (probably) don’t have the resources to find any one and kill them, and besides which, if she’s really asking that you do, uhm… dodge that bullet.
Whether she realizes it or not, refusing to engage or talk about it, except in her own time frame- is not a good sign for a healthy relationship,
Haaaaaaaaaard disagree. People need time to process and self regulate before engaging with things like this. The silent treatment isn’t the right play, and neither is stewing in it, not trying to reach an emotionally grounded state, and reapproacing the situation.
A much more healthy response, from either individual, would be to set a timeframe for when they can reengage. Either him saying “clearly you don’t want to discuss this now. That’s okay. How about the morning?” or her saying the same, essentially. It’s healthy to admit that you just do not have the emotional capacity to have a conversation respectfully.
There’s a pretty good chance the questions asked were only asked because she was still very emotionally high. The fact that it occurred in the middle of the night, suddenly, after OP being asleep, says that she has probably not been regulating. Not good times to be having emotional discourse. Every person has said weird, gross, or straight up untrue things when they’re emotionally charged. Stuff you don’t believe or wouldn’t act on, and never would have said in a normal state.
None of this is to excuse any of the actions or words said. She clearly has some emotional issues, and needs actual, professional help. I’m just picking at the “refusing to talk” bit. There are healthy ways to refuse to talk, and many benefits to not just butting heads immediately.
Edit for clarity: the only thing I disagree is the bit I quoted. The bit about engaging outside of a timeframe comfortable to you. I feel like some people are thinking I’m defending the GF - to be clear, I am not. Again, I am JUST disagreeing with the bit I directly quoted.
Haaaaaaaaaard disagree. People need time to process and self regulate before engaging with things like this. The silent treatment isn’t the right play, and neither is stewing in it, not trying to reach an emotionally grounded state, and reapproacing the situation.
So she gets to unilaterally decide when they talk? including, when the OP is in a vulnerable mental state? I think you’re focusing too much on what the GF needs and denying the OP the same you’d give her. The fact that he was sleeping would definitely suggest he’s not ready to have the conversation.
I didn’t say he couldn’t also choose to pick a better time. It’s a mutual thing. They both need time to process the new information, get into a more healthy state, and readdress this thing. That can only happen when both say as much.
I’m pretty sure I said as much in the rest of the post, if you want to go back and read the other 80%.
She gave him the silent treatment.
She did not say: “Look, I’m really angry/flustered/sad/whatever right now, please give me some space and we can talk about this later.”
She then was just standing there at 1 am at his bed, implying either she’d been standing there for a while (weird) or she woke him up (rude).
The situation as described has nothing in common with two partners who understand themselves and their boundaries well and set aside a time to discuss things in a mutually agreed upon time and place when they both expect to have more emotional bandwidth.
Again, did I say she did things perfectly? Nope. In fact she did them pretty fucking bad. Go back to my first post and read it again, please. I said those things were bad BECAUSE she was doing them.
I only ever had an issue with the person I replied to saying that you have to engage in the conversation, possibly before you’re ready. No. That’s wrong. You engage with the conversation when BOTH PARTIES feel comfortable.
Both people can be right, or wrong. They both handled it pretty badly. I’d say she probably handled it worse. Again, the ONLY THING I’m commenting on at all is the implication that someone MUST engage with a conversation before they’re ready to.
Nuance and reading comprehension are hard.
Edit for clarity: the only thing I disagree with from the original comment I replied to is the bit that I quoted. The bit about engaging outside of a timeframe comfortable to you. I feel like some people are thinking I’m defending the GF - to be clear, I am not. Again, I am JUST disagreeing with the bit I directly quoted.
My question is, am I really responsible if someone kidnaps her between getting off the Uber and getting into our apartment complex?
Only if you were involved in the kidnapping, like paying them to do it.
Is she trying to guilt trip me into thinkg her anger is justified or am I really a horrible, kidnap-facillitating bad person for missing a few texts?
She is trying to guilt trip you for missing her text by using emotionally ever the top hyperbole which is not gaslighting. Gaslighting requires intentionally lying about something that did not happen to make you question your own experience.
Still rampant manipulation, though.
I’d say at least on the level of gaslighting
Gaslighting is not a level, just a different technique. It can be done at varying levels of severity.
Agreed it’s just a different technique, but I’d suggest some techniques are more objectionable than others- both of these are on about that same tier.
Only if you were involved in the kidnapping, like paying them to do it.
Reading this I’m not sure I’d fault him even if that were the case.
Abandon ship, my dude.
So, fair warning, I am autistic, but also, I’ve had several multi year relationships with people of differing similarities to this person, here’s my read of this:
This is extremely manipulative and abusive behavior toward you.
You forgot about a text after a hard day of work.
She got angry and refused to speak with you for hours because you missed a text.
And you say this is apparently normal behavior.
That is fucking absurd, to be frank.
Before any of the rest of the story, that alone is bonkers.
Just do the reverse situation in your head. You’re out late for some on location work event, text her and ask if she can be there when you get back home. She forgets.
Would you be so angry or disappointed that you would refuse to speak to her for 3 hours, would that be something she would accept as normal behavior from you, and would she be inclined to blame herself and totally accept this punishment from you as appropriate?
The rest of this story is she wakes you up in the middle and questions you with absurd nonsensical questions that are all specifically designed as loyalty tests.
I had a 3 year relationship with a person like this.
She was schizophrenic, massively physically, mentally and emotionally abusive toward me.
I am of course not going to say your partner is schizophrenic based off of this alone, I am just saying that reading your story immediately sent me back into the mindstate and memories of my own.
It is however clear to me that your acceptance of this kind of behavior as normal, up until the middle of the night nonsense questioning, to me this indicates that she is utterly dominating you into total submission, and you think this is normal.
It is not.
Fucking bail out immediately is what I would do.
It is completely absurd to think that she could somehow have been kidnapped in the 30 seconds between getting out of an uber and walking to your door.
If she actually believed she was in real danger of being kidnapped, she almost certainly would have told you why, and would have asked you to evaluate her why and what to do to prevent it.
Shes fucking grooming you when she guilt trips you into saying you’d murder someone on her account in a totally hypothetical situation that she is taking extremely seriously.
She is trying to make you feel extremely guilty for things that 1) are not and would not be your fault if they occured and 2) have almost 0 chance of actually occurring.
Maybe there is a 1% chance she will open up later and tell you, wow ok, i was really on edge last night, here is why: and then recount an actual, unlikely but possible extremely unnerving situation.
Or, she is cheating on you or has done something you would be greatly displeased with if you found out, and this is all a reflection/distraction technique. She felt guilty so she leaped at any chance to make you into the bad guy.
Again, I obviously cannot say with any certainty that is what is actually going on, but I can certainly say that she is a highly manipulative and abusive person if you find it normal for her to just completely give you the silent treatment for hours for an inconsequential error.
