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Al…right. Let’s do a little sanity check and let’s see how up or downvoted is gets.
- It is absolutely true that violence against women is structurally endemic in our societies and they represent a large majority of domestic violence
- It is also absolutely true that domestic violence against men is clearly under-reported, to an unknown but significant extant
- It is absolutely true that abuse is abuse
Those assertions do not contradict each other.
100% on all points
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I have a friend who I haven’t been able to hang out with for several years because his wife is insane and posessive, and he’s decided to just ride it out until the kids are all 18 so he can divorce her without having to pay her child support.
He’ll still support his children, but he’ll do it directly instead of through her.
It’s me, your buddy - well maybe not your exact buddy but a dude living in this same scenario.
Please hang out when that last kid turns 18 and we are free. It’s horribly lonely and there is no one to help. Getting a divorce just means she gets everything including all the time in the world to manipulate the kids.
You don’t happen to be an electrician and a central-Texas scuba enthusiast?
Close. Power grid engineer in the Midwest.
Wow, think of the example he’s setting. If his kids were in that marriage, would he recommend waiting for 1/5 of their life to go by with a horrible person? How will his kids even know how to have a loving relationship if his parents are that fucked up?
He’s a coward who cares more about money than about being a good person or dad.
And that’s most men in these relationships. Men would rather cheat and lie than be honest and extend basic respect and communication to their partners. And then get upset when women finally initiate divorce for the broken shitty relationship.
You’re being down voted, but I mostly agree with you. Putting your kids through the issues of your failing relationship isn’t doing them any good either. There’s no good answer, but staying for your children is often putting them through even more trauma than the divorce would.
Yes, because if the nonabusive parent can find a nonabusive partner, that gives a kid a chance with a true loving home and a way to learn prosocial behaviors and how to have a truly respectful and loving relationship. You can’t change that they have an abusive parent, but you can help them learn how to not accept that abuse and not perpetuate it.
Like if I leave my husband who hit me, I’m showing my daughter to do that if her boyfriend ever hits her. If I stay, I’m just teaching her to endure abuse. It’s the same if Dad does it, too - he’s a role model as well. And further, this excuse is the exact one men DM me before asking to cheat on their wives (‘shes crazy and im just staying for the kids’) so I frankly have zero tolerance for it. Grow a backbone and some morals and get a divorce. You’re not helping your kids, you’re helping yourself.
A parents obligation to their children is more nuanced than your implying, setting an example isn’t the only factor. Not to mention abuse is used to break your will to stand up for yourself, and even if that weren’t a factor, communication isn’t possible with people unwilling to listen.
Relationships are a two way street, but when you’ve got kids., it’s not just about the relationship with your partner anymore
He stated that he wanted control of finances as his main motivator, not abuse.
Yes, the best way to teach your kids how to handle abuse is by being a role model. Sometimes that means leaving the abusive parent and making a safe place away from the abusive parent. How can an 18 year old learn the skill of leaving their abusive parent if it was never modeled to them and the nonabusive parent stuck by them no matter what?
you have issues, please go see a therapist
My ex-wife was arrested for slapping me and breaking my glasses.
Like many other victims of abuse, I stayed married for several more years. Been away from that nutjob since 2009.
This reminds me of the Heard v Depp case, on the two X chromosomes subreddit there was this long ass comment from someone who experienced abuse and said she wasn’t the “perfect victim” because she fought back and hurt her abuser back and how because of this it was harder to get away from her abuser.
And when I asked how does she know that in Heard v Depp case it isn’t Depp who is the imperfect victim? Because he had multiple partners testifying to his character of being a kind man etc, while Heard had the opposite (AFAIK).
All I got was silence and downvotes.
Have you heard of battered woman syndrome? Do you understand the court case that lead to it?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francine_Hughes
The reason is that most men are physically stronger than most women and also we live in a heteropatriarchy that caters to men first. There was clearly mutual abuse by both partners, and both Amber and Johnny are raging narcissists- but Johnny has a bad past too, including a questionable relationship with Winona Ryder when she was young and extreme drug use that made him erratic. It’s impossible to know who was abusing who or what was actually happening.
But I will say the leading expert on domestic violence, Lundy Bancroft, asserts that women are almost never the abuse initiator in relationships. Most serial killers, most violent offenders, are men. So yeah, women will typically blame the man because it’s usually men.
I don’t usually comment in these types of gender discussions, so I don’t really know why I am commenting this. I hope you don’t take me badly.
You say that we live in a society that caters to men first, which I unfortunately agree in general, adding later that, due to the usual prepertrators of the hideous crimes you listed being men (which I also agree), women usually jump to the conclusion that the man is the abuser. Knowing that, couldn’t it be said that in this specific situation society caters to women rather than men? After all, you can’t say “most abusers are men, therefore this abuser is a man.” Each person is an individual. From a purely mathematical perspective, it indeed makes sense to suspect the man first, but that being the case, wouldn’t bringing up that first point be:
a. True, but in matters unrelated to the discussion? b. Contradicting what you say in the end?
And therein lies my question to you. I am not that informed in these gender-related affairs and I am sorry if anything I said was wrong/insensitive, but I still ask this question, for no reason other than probably being sleepy. Thank you, and I apologize if I misunderstood anything. I did not watch the show that was mentioned, I really just wanted to ask about that specific part.
And the men’s lib sub is the best we will get when it comes to men’s issues and that one sucks too.
The mens rights sub originally was a good place for dudes who were getting taken to the cleaners in divorce court, losing full custody of the kids just because the mom wanted em, and even an instance iirc of the wife taking the dog only to have em put down later.
Then it slowly mutated into a watered down version of incels
I mean that’s bound to happen. If the main thing that draws you to a space is that you’re all being abused by women in one way or another, then it’s probably going to end up being a place to hate on women and therefore attract women haters like incels.
Men’s lib should be a space where we fight the injustices imposed on men by the dominant hierarchy. Like the fact that we’re assumed to be worse at caring for our kids than their mothers and that this assumption disadvantages us in court. Or the fact we’re assumed to be abusers and that being a victim somehow makes us be seen as lesser men and automatically deserving of the abuse we get (like in this comic). Or the fact that we’re assumed to BE/BE PART OF the dominant hierarchy and therefore can’t be victims of it, even though we can lose our “manlyness” through something as simple or human as crying when we’re sad.
Only with this mindset can we channel our victimisation into positive action rather than towards hatred of women.
Hive minds are strong remember to not rate your opinion based on how many up votes it gets
This will keep happening as long as the left treats any acknowledgement of mens issues as a moral failing
You are a problematic man.
I dont think he is problematic .it seem pretty correct that the left doesn’t offer solution to men actually.
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I’ve seen some good folks in the past few years. Like That Dang Dad and F.D Signifier. But I’m just on YouTube. I’m sure I miss lots of hate.
F.D is great actually. Need more like him.
What left is doing that?
How? By refusing to accept that female on male abuse is a thing. Go find a mainstream leftist place and bring it up. See what happens
That’s truly a joke.
It is my current understanding, from various experiences - and I want to state that I publicly engage with men and women who’ve had violent experiences in various ways on a regular basis - that men are FAR more likely to be supported when facing domestic violence by the left, the very same woke/feminist left.
The right? They don’t give a flying f*ck. As always. The incels and their variants? They don’t care. They’re in a political crusade against social justice.
So where are the men’s shelters? Why is female on male abuse considered funny? And I don’t care what conservatives think
It’s not a “thing” compared to male on female abuse which is significantly more pervasive and takes up more attention. Its obviously a thing in that it happens. Most women would rather focus on reducing male violence which typically will benefit male survivors. Just like how structures that help women sexual assault survivors also tend to help the few male survivors and so we don’t per se need to explicitly help the smaller male demographic, since they are included and the larger female demographic still hasn’t been served either.
We just don’t care to hear you sealion about these abuse victims when you do nothing for EITHER demographic and instead use male victims to deny help for women and thus men. It’s not about giving men help, it’s about being a vulnerable narcissist and making women a bad guy.
This shit right here is what I am talking about.
Lol
We’re in one right now and that isn’t happening.
Whew that was quick https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/14541652
Lemmy isn’t mainstream. Most people, even the terminally online don’t know it exists
I’m skeptical that there exists any leftist mainstream place that isn’t actually a right-wing place disguised as leftist.
I’m also skeptical that all of those loud but irrational voices are genuine. Especially given Russia’s MO for online trolling where they push both sides of any issue to extremes to sow division. Not to say that I believe everyone on the left is rational and reasonable. But why would the tone be so different between “mainstream” and “non-mainstream” left places if the position you’re talking about is as ubiquitous to the left as you claim it is?
Looking at how many people are angry about this ki da proves your point.
Thanks, Mr. Blobfish! That’s funny, I don’t recall taking Ambien…
Woah stop making men feel safe and seen. Next thing they’ll become feminists, or worse, empathetic and caring humans!
I actually spoke with some who said talking about problems specific to men, is somehow anti feminist, because it puts men into a victim role.
Lemmy’s continuing the progression from liberal privilege to MRA “activism”. smh.
Saw this comment and thought I was on Reddit.
I think you got lost along the way.
Gr8 b8 m8
This one’s low hanging fruit tho, need to try a bit harder
So you are okay that men can be abused?
Most people are. We deserve it for some reason.
Agreed. I’ve been seeing more and more “woe is men” stuff lately. Not too surprising since most people here are Reddit refugees. The platform where every single “woman bad” post makes the frontpage.
“woe is men” isn’t a comparison to women.
Women are victimized by the patriarchy in many ways. Men are victimized by the patriarchy in many ways.
Everyone suffers from the patriarchy. We need to dismantle the patriarchy both by fighting our own fights AND by supporting eachother.
We don’t win by dismissing eachother’s pains as invalid or less important.
I agree, as a woman who very much cares about inclusive feminism. By silencing men who talk about their issues/pains, we push them further away. By pretending like men don’t have worries/fears/needs/wants, we’re doing them a disservice.
The Patriarchy hurts everyone. Men need to know that if theyre abused by a woman, it doesnt make them “less of a man”, nor is it “their fault”. No one deserves abuse. They, as victims deserve to be acknowledged and handled with care, and have their abuse investigated/taken seriously just as much as a woman does.
There’s room enough for us all to be equal.
We aren’t silencing men. We are asking men to extend empathy to women too and not just other men. Men only caring about men is just another patriarchal tool.
I dont think men *don’t * extend empathy to us. I think Ive seen a hard shift from my parents (Gen X, they were young when they had me), to my Millenial husband and my friends. The vast majority (that Ive met, admittedly), seem like they’re on our side.
But it feels like theyre also trying to be like “Hey, we’re dealing with shit too”, and we’re turning around and being like “Not right now” and its been “Not Right Now” for 30+ years.
Are men perfect? Nah, but neither are we, and we have to make space for them to be validated as victims/people with struggles too. And we can also remind them to call out each other when theyre incorrect, and we need to do the same thing for each other which is what Im trying to do now.
Dont be the reason that Lib women get an even worse rep than we already have. We can discuss both perspectives!
I once saw a gif on Reddit of a little girl being forcibly kissed by a little boy (both about 6), and she shoved him off and he looked sad. The entire thousands of comments focused on the little boys first rejection. No one even noticed it was the little girl’s first sexual assault. She even wiped the kiss off, reminiscent of victims cleaning themselves after assaults.
When I pointed this out, people were angry. How dare I suggest that little boy is a monster. But I wasn’t. I was entirely focused on the little girl’s experience and I wasn’t advocating for anything relating to the boy. In fact, I think an appropriate “punishment” would be to explain to him to not touch people without asking etc. And that’s it.
But men were so unable to extend empathy to a girl, to a woman, that they literally couldn’t absorb this information or perspective take as her. This was like 3 years ago. It was astonishing. No, men do NOT empathize with women. Men empathize with themselves as an idealized version of who they would be as a woman - that’s projection by definition and is entirely how they feel entitled to control women and objectify them.
Everyone suffers from the patriarchy.
Can you define “patriarchy?” Once you do, can you understand how men have an advantage over women? Lol
men are empowered in a patriarchy by definition and women disempowered.
Are you not even trying to understand how toxic masculinity has forced men to shut up and swallow their feelings, has prevented them from pursuing passions for being “too girly”/not lucrative enough to provide for their family? How its pushed “strongman” narratives, and anything less than that is seen as “weaker/less than”? You cant see how male rape/abuse victims are treated differently than female rape/abuse victims?
Like, if you really cant open your eyes to how that may really affect someones mental health/quality of life, then I think you should do some work on learning empathy.
The 25 year old dude working at the gas station is not the reason the patriarchy is an issue. He’s struggling along with the rest of us, and we’re telling him he has nothing to complain about and has it easier. Thats not okay.
Yes, men are the real victims of the patriarchy
Vulnerable narcissists make up a large portion of incels
Maybe men are pushed to the extremes because of people like you shitting all over them when there is a post about men’s issues.
Men, being in charge of the patriarchy, aren’t pushed by women. They are pushed by themselves and other men. This is patriarchy 101 and part of why you all sealioning about male abuse isn’t taken seriously anymore unless you are specifically talking about your abuse experience for emotional support. Try advocating for policies to help abuse victims instead of trying to find a creative way to say ‘women bad’ without getting flamed.
Not gonna lie. You’re doing an awful job at advocating. I understand what you’re saying but you’re doing it in such an offputting way that I have to wonder if you even care or if this is just you venting.
Being justified and right doesn’t mean you can act however you want in the name of that just cause. If you’re not likeable then no one is going to listen to you.
I refuse to be performative in my speech. Go police another woman.
Hot take bruh
abusers are trash, no matter what their gender. May they all rot.
I was once seeing a girl for a couple weeks that FUCKING ROOFIED MY DRINK so she could look through my phone while I was lying there watching her unable to move. It was absolutely fucked.
It’s possible if you did a lot of weed or if you are a redhead, it might be harder to roofie/sedate you
Terrifying. I’ve had other reasons to only use a passcode, but now I have another.
Good thing you managed to stay conscious, holy shit!
Didn’t even know that was possibleDepends on the type of drug, not all date rapes do the same thing. I think this one was GHB but I don’t actually know.
Thats horrible! Now it exist some kind of drug testing straw that color themselves if it detect something. But just to think that its a possibility is horrible.
That’s horrible, I hope you’re doing better now
I’m married now, and this was over a decade ago. As soon as I was able to function again I kicked her out of my house and never spoke to her again.
From « a couple weeks ago », to « I’m married now » oh boy, that escalated quickly but then I saw the decades word! Good for you you were able to ditch this abuser.
Edit: ha, I misread the whole thing, my bad
Really applies to most things. I’m not a dude, trans woman, but I’ve gotten sexually harassed a lot both pre and post transition and the response I got pre and post transition is night and day. Pretransition people treated me like I was crazy for feeling unsafe and like I was supposed to enjoy it.
Honestly, men should be allowed to feel unsafe around women, or really allowed to feel unsafe in general, and be taken seriously for it.I’m a guy.
I’ve been sexually assaulted multiple times in my life by both genders. The last time was at the hands of a boyfriend who made me no longer want to be Bi. I haven’t been with another guy since and only date female now.
Honestly the response has never been in my favor. At the hands women it was ignored or blamed on me and by men I was told that I should have enjoyed it more. I’ve been belittled for not being gay enough to take being assaulted in public. And told I was being a problem for having it done to me in a work setting with apologies made for the perpetrator and then myself sent away.
I never get to feel unsafe and I never have gotten to feel seen for it. Not by other men. Not by the LGBTQ community, not by women, not even by doctors. It’s devastating and yet there apparently is no right time to ever bring it forward. It’s horrible that it feels we have specific socially acceptable ways to be traumatized and most of them are against men. And yet the loudest resistance feels like from the people being hypocrites cause it makes for an easier narrative.
I don’t like people anymore.
I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to type all that. I’m sorry.
No need to apologize. Glad you shared. Never apologize for getting something off your chest.
I’m sorry no one treated your abuse seriously.
I’m a guy and I have a cnc/rape kink (want to be ) but if a girl try to do it for real I would kick her ass no matter how pretty she would be. If you start thinking with your brain I don’t understand how a guy could enjoy someone that toxic and disgusting.
One downfall of what I only hesitantly refer to as modern feminism (although really I’m talking about terfs and the terf-adjacent) is that it has painted men as dangerous by default. I’m also a trans woman so I’ve seen both sides of the coin, too… I do feel less safe now, this is true. Many things were easier when I was living as a man. But I was never dangerous or an abuser.
Nonetheless, a former partner used accusations of abuse against me and turned so many people on me. The only ones that stuck by me were former romantic partners, who knew the accusations couldn’t have been true. For everyone else, it was so easy to accept that a man - even a clearly gentle one - would be an abuser.
In reality I’ve been a victim of abuse - physical, emotional, sexual… All long before I transitioned.
Im so sorry for you,hope you are better now ❤️
Thanks for posting this! Being male and being abused is a very isolating experience on many levels. I wish good things upon you, friend.
Hope you are better now 🫂🫂
🫂
I am hoping for better things and healthier relationships in your future
But the only place men have to go to is an imaginary fish thing.
You leave blobby alone. He is trying his best.
Poor thing’s been ripped from its habitat into this cruel low pressure environment .
Return all the Alarmos to the sea from whence they came.
Blobfish are real
Unfortunately the image of them around the internet and educational book aren’t. Those are what left of them after getting drag into the atmosphere they’re not used to in high speed. It’s like showing a decayed corpse of human and say “this is what human actually looks like”.
And the fish in the comic wasn’t at the bottom of the ocean.
What would the man have looked like at the bottom of the ocean? Maybe more like that decayed corpse?
By that logic maybe we should only draw dinosaur as bone because we never seen them in their prime.
No, by that logic you should draw dinosaur as bone if they are in a situation where their flesh is gone.
Well, yes, you should draw dinosaur bone if your intention is to draw dinosaur bone.
So what you’re saying is that the natural habitat of Roger Ailes was the bottom of the sea? I agree, but for different reasons 😉
An abusive partner accusing the other of cheating is very often a projection of the fact they themselves had been cheating. Since they know they would cheat, and were/are, they either assume the other person is the same way, or simply don’t want to draw attention to their affair. It’s an awful thing.
It can also be a sign of past trauma. I.E. they were chested on before, and are projecting the behaviors of the past onto you. Also awful, but in a much more sad way.
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