Another way to view this is that the poor are voting republican now. Trump won those making less than $100,000 handedly while Harris won those making above. Probably because he’s offering them a solution to there problems, deport the immigrants and bring manufacturing back. His plan is dumb and won’t work but at least he’s putting something forward unlike Harris who says everything will stay the same.
The democrats are slowly becoming the party of the out of touch elite, and memes like this don’t help. The democrats need to be putting forward solutions to those problems, and trump has shown it doesn’t matter if they’re viable or will actually help. If these “dumb poor people are rubes who will fall for anything” give them something to fall for. Say your going to tax the billionaires at 50% and use that money to pay for Healthcare and child care, don’t cozy up to them so you can raise another billion dollars to lose another election .
Say your going to tax the billionaires at 50% and use that money to pay for Healthcare and child care, don’t cozy up to them so you can raise another billion dollars to lose another election .
That was basically Harris’ tax plan.
What Would Kamala Harris’s Tax Plans Mean For You? | Kiplinger - https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/kamala-harriss-tax-plans-2024
It doesn’t matter what your platform is if it’s not communicated effectively to the median voter
How do you communicate effectively to someone with their fingers in their ears screaming nananananananana? Please advise, oh political oracle.
You go on Joe Rogan for one. Kamala ran the last presidential campaign that will ever rely so heavily on the legacy media apparatus. This whole cycle proved that they are only broadcasting to themselves and real people are elsewhere on podcasts, twitter and YT.
She did go on Call Her Daddy.
Who do you think the people putting their fingers in their ears are, in this case?
With all the fucking TV ads and mailers the campaign spent billions on. If the average voters is just covering there ears then why spend so much on advertising or why even campaign at all? Yeah some people are like that but they’re deep in the maga cult, there’s still a large amount of people open to both sides if the messaging is right that decided this election. Harris’ messaging didn’t work though.
I mean the marketing was effective. A lot of people including Donald trump thought he was going to lose. Just not effective at getting people who support Biden to get off their ass.
The Democrats must be doing something right, if their states have better everything.
Maybe if the Republicans would listen to us, we could all have the best schools and hospitals.
They don’t have better retention rates.
CA, NY, IL and MA are all in the top 5 for states that have the most people leaving.
TX, FL, NC and AZ are attracting the most people.
Massachusetts has priced out average people. If you aren’t the inheritor of some generational wealth you have a better chance of being upwardly mobile elsewhere.
That really has mostly to do with the high cost of living. And it’s going to be high in an area inhabited by businesses on the cutting edge of technology. Those jobs have high wages because they need highly educated people, and highly educated people come from the best universities in the country, many of which are in Boston and Cambridge.
Red states don’t have higher education, and they don’t have innovative industry, so they don’t have the population density issues that blue states have.
Maybe if red states had these things, they’d have a high cost of living, too.
Most of the people fleeing MA for those states are working remotely for their companies still in MA. Mostly DINKS and young (primarily male) single professionals that don’t really have public education or healthcare as any sort of immediate concern. That’s gonna lead to problems when the average age of red state populations inverts itself. Better make sure that they can’t not have babies.
This is due to rent gouging, not democrats.
You can’t blame “rent gouging” without blaming the government for condoning it and setting up the conditions that encourage it.
The cost of living in blue states is absolutely due to city/state level Democrats. Democrats write the zoning laws. Democrats decide the tax laws. Democrats build the infrastructure and public transportation. Democrats also vote down rent control and affordable housing requirements.
Red states are controlled by rich Republicans. Blue states are controlled by rich Democrats. Sure, Republican rule makes Oklahoma the shit hole that it is. But don’t try to give Democrats a pass for making Massachusetts as expensive as it is.
So according to you it’s worse to acknowledge we can’t go back in time than to lie to people and promise that which we (in the 3rd party pov sense, meaning NYC republicans) actively subvert every day? One would have to be exceptionally stupid and stubbornly uninformed to believe this is reasonable.
if living in russia taught me anything, people in distress reduce themselves (and got reduced) to the most basic questions, like who is to blame, and populists have them like a piece of cake.
Most vatniks, not unlike MAGAs, don’t have answers to many questions, they want to be left alone to manage the hole they happened to be born into, and the promise of a candidate or ideology that does just that or even paints their quest as a herioic one, or a sacred sacrifice, would win again and again until there is someone to work with that and educate them.
They are used to live in shit and depend on themselves, don’t know anything better and become pretty jealous if others get that. Others having it worse, especially their ‘enemies’, kinda makes their own living more bearable. Their struggle is a downpainment for a mission of punishing the unworthy ones.
When a person is downscaled to that childish level of consciousness it’s impossible to reach them with rhetorics that don’t directly benefit them.
As long as they continue to be like that and their thoughts are unchallenged, they’d always vote maga.
And as they continue to vote against their own interests it becomes a self-perpetuating system.
I haven’t seen an analysis from your perspective before. Lines up very well with my experience from the Southern US.
Really well said
Wasn’t Oklahoma supposed to be given back to the native tribes? Like more than 50% of it?
It was. And in fact the Supreme Court ruled in McGirt v. Oklahoma that the reservations still exist. One consequence is that Google Maps now shades the entire eastern half of the state in dark shading showing the borders between the Cherokee, Creek, Choctaw, Chickasaw, and so forth.
The tribal governments are taking an increasing role in providing public services to all of the citizens within their borders, as the civil state government descends deeper into libertarianism.
Oklahoma was built on genocide. Is it any wonder those that govern it are garbage people.
America was built on several genocides. Oklahoma isn’t special.
Unlike Massachusetts which was totally uninhabited when people settled there.
Massachusetts is also 4th in the country for states with the most people leaving to live elsewhere.
No doubt due to cost of living because Massachusetts is ridiculously expensive. The friends I have there are either leaving or totally resigned to not owning a house or ever retiring. Comparing a historically important coastal population center to a historically poor and strategically insignificant flyover state doesn’t prove much.
The states with highest domestic emigration (e.g. people voting with their feet to leave) are overwhelmingly left leaning. (Except for Louisiana and Ohio)
So progressive places make a place so desirable to live in that people are willing to compete with each other for the experience.
“Why are blue states always so expensive?!”. It’s supply and demand. High demand to live someplace makes it expensive.
My million dollar house is worth as much as it is because of its located near high paying jobs, good school, and good neighbors. It’s expensive to live where I live because lots of people want to live here.
Yeah, but it’s supply and demand. I bet your million dollar home isn’t next to an apartment building. Cities would be much cheaper if it weren’t for NIMBYs who already own homes insisting that their homes must appreciate in value at all times.
There’s higher demand to live in Florida and Texas. Look at the domestic immigration numbers. People are leaving CA, NY, IL and MA in droves.
How is people leaving almost exclusively “progressive” places an indicator of competition?
Look at the inverse of that chart. Most people in the country are moving to places like Florida, Texas and Idaho.
As an Ohioan that tracks. We’d long been the poor person’s progressive state but yeah I’m ditching to go somewhere I’m safe, even though it sucks to leave somewhere affordable
strategically insignificant flyover state
Cushing, OK has a bone to pick with this.
Assuming that is a missile silo or something in which case I stand corrected on that front!
Major petroleum marketplace. The commodity trading floor is in a big city somewhere else. But a lot of the oil actually changes hands in our around Cushing.
Gotcha. FWIW I have no bone to pick with Oklahoma at all. If anything the fact that people criticize it for being a backwater probably means that it’s awesome.
I crisscrossed Oklahoma on one of my cross-country trips, the state absolutely sucks and they even know it that’s why you can legally drive like 80mph through the whole thing.
Kansas also sucks but khp uses the highway as a way to punish people with the wrong license plates. A majority of traffic stops in Kansas were of our of state drivers as recently as a few years ago.
I love the “Have you actually considered that the state doing the worst under consistent Republican policy is voting because they’re unhappy with the DEMONRAT status quo???”
They really don’t give a shit about consistency in their arguments. People have or lack responsibility for their moral and political choices according to whatever suits their “LIBERALS BAD” talking point of the day.
Republicans have had a vice grip on our state and local politics for 40 years…BUT ITS THE LIBRULS FAULT
That would make sense if Oklahoma hadn’t voted that way every time regardless of who the previous president was. But I mean, conservatives are pretty good at inverting their arguments. So I’m sure when Bush left office, they voted for Romney because they were so happy with how the Bush admin went. But when Obama left, they voted for Trump because they were so unhappy with how the Obama administration went. Simple!
Time is a circle.
when is it from?
Probably from 1972 when Nixon swept the country, except Massachusetts and DC
Sadly Mass is also close to #1 in terms of cost of living.
I like it here but I don’t like what it costs.
Oh no! #1 in cost of living and #1 in quality if life? And among the lowest poverty?
Do people really just need social support to thrive? No way! It’s gotta be stuff! Cheap stuff! That’s what life’s all about!
Pretty easy to have high quality of life and low poverty if all the poor people leave because there priced out.
Bingo
if all the poor people leave because there priced out.
What an utterly bizarre take.
You got a better explanation? People are leaving Massachusetts and the cost of living is high . The most likely reason is that poorer people who can’t afford to live there any more are leaving. Otherwise why would you leave a state with such a high quality of life?
The people leaving largely aren’t the poor, though. They’re the middle and upper class looking for lower taxes. They’re leaving because the high quality of life there benefits those with less money disproportionately compared to those with more money; public transport and good public schools matter less to the wealthy than to the poor.
No arguments from me, that’s why I don’t want to live anywhere else.
It does sting a bit to be stuck living with high rent in an apartment when my income would allow me to buy a decent house in another part of the country. But then I likely wouldn’t have this income in other parts of the country, either.
When I moved back to the US from China, I immediately had health insurance thanks to Masshealth. Helped me have peace of mind while I was searching for a job back here. And now I get to work for an organization that helps other people land on their feet when big life changes happen, which is easier to do here than elsewhere.
It’s pretty difficult to find anywhere in the US currently that has good jobs, good entertainment and restaurants, access to healthcare, good schools, and isn’t expensive. Sure, you can get a house cheaper in rural Kansas or something but then you have to live in rural Kansas.
Very well said. I live in the other state from the meme and I’m broke af. I could be living in a better state and still be broke af but getting things from my taxes rather than them being used to put Bibles in schools.
What’s the wealth inequality metric for them?
Not the worst but top 10 in inequality
Also with the high cost of living most of the poor move out so that would make it seem lower then if you look at the inequality to the neighboring states where people may move to or the u.s. as a whole. Probably harder to find but it would be interesting to see inequality among people born in Massachusetts, including those who left. Would be interesting to see if there system is actually creating successful people, or if they’re just kicking out unsuccessful people and attracting already successful people from other states.
Well, all it does is drive up the cost for the working class who live there who are then forced to move out.
If you were born there, that does indeed suck. If you bought your way in there, it’s a win. If you were born there and can afford to keep living there, also a win
Education, healthcare and quality of life aren’t cheap. Want cheap? Go to Oklahoma.
How is Massachusetts being outrageously expensive not diametrically opposed to “quality of life”? The average person can’t get ahead in Massachusetts which is why they are leaving to go elsewhere.
I have also thought that before I moved from Mass to Oregon. Just my experience of course, but my state taxes increases 2x and everything seemed to be more expensive.
I moved from CA to NC and the taxes were absolutely worse.
First in education, clearly that means education makes you lib’ral, and gay! And trans!
West Virginia also voted straight red, I believe
Holy crap, they did.
I spent a lot of my life there and boy oh boy.
I hear it’s nicer up north, but I couldn’t afford to go anywhere and check it out. It is WILD where I came from.
I can only imagine lmao. I’m an okie currently, so I may have some idea, what with our state mineral being meth.
I’ve only ever heard stories and seen one documentary (The Wild and Wondeful Whites of West Virginia) from out of WV but it sounds…different out there, even compared to OK, haha.
So wait, the poor and the hopeless, looking for some kind of help, voted unanimously for TRUMP, and those happy with their current conditions and wanting no change voted for Harris.
You think a rich nepo baby wants to help working class Americans instead of himself and his rich friends? LOL
I don’t, but a large chunk of america does. I think that speaks a lot to the democrats messaging.
The world’s richest man is helping a billionaire get elected and that’s not one of your main points to voters? No but Harris can’t attack billionaires because that’ll anger all the ones on her side.
I like how you put “trump” in all-caps bold to help us better recognize that you are on TEAM RAPIST.
Also, the state that always votes blue is happy with their situation, and the state that always votes red is begging for change. You really can’t figure out how each state got into their respective positions?
Perhaps the state that wants change should try voting for someone other than a Republican every single election.
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Just because the person you are replying to has a different opinion about how people vote, doesn’t mean they are a trump supporter.
I don’t think this person is your enemy.
They never said they voted for him. They pointed out that the living conditions in the red state are worse, and the chose to vote for Trump. Presumably under some kind of belief that he will ameliorate those conditions.
Before you tell me he won’t, I know that he won’t. They don’t know that though. And they have gigantic right wing echo chambers telling them all about how he will.
maybe youre just completely unfamiliar with the word “conservative”. those red states dont want change. they want to conserve their regressive stance.
I think it’s pretty clear that the current Republican party is fundamentally different than the one of 15 years ago. Whether they consider themselves conservative or not, they are the party that is promising change from the status quo.
The parties have clearly changed roles with respect to manual laborers. The blue wall doesn’t exist anymore because of this. What it all means, I have no idea, but we need to update our mental model of the two parties. Their demographic have fundamentally changed.
The maps were identical in 2020 (following a republican administration):
And 2008 (following a republican administration):
Once you get back to pre-social media era internet, you begin to see Oklahoma have shades of blue.
Perhaps we could collaborate on this.
Now that I have pulled Oklahoma’s electoral results going back to 1988, now you can pull Oklahoma’s education results going back over the same period of time and we can see if there is, in fact, a correlation between the quality of education (overall education rankings) and how the state votes in presidential elections.
I suspect that it was not purely the quality of education which influenced the “red shift”. I would bet that the lower-quality of education made the influence of social media more effective for those targeting the less educated to adopt a conservative political position.
Just share your findings here and we can work together.
Well done. I’ll leave my response up, but I’ll admit that the Massachusetts/Oklahoma example is a bad one to make the case that Trump was the populist in this election and Harris was a vote for the conservative “no change” position.
Ah yes, of course, Kamala was the more conservative option in the last election. Donald Trump is also an actual populist that cares about you. You are very smart. /s
Yes, I believe that was actually true. Look at him, slashing and burning his way through cabinet appointments.
She was definitely the more conservative choice. It’s ok that I’m not smart.
You know, folks are giving you a lot of unnecessary shit for this comment. And I get that when viewed with sufficient context and cultural awareness of American politics, the meme clearly implies at least a correlation between voting blue and an improved quality of life. (edit: which mind you I do believe exists, at least in so far as it compares to voting red)
But I also saw it and thought, “this meme could easily be interpreted by MAGA cultists to justify their vote for Trump”. They would of course be wrong, but with the isolated set of data provided by the meme, it really doesn’t only imply what it thinks it implies.
It’s necessary.
If their comment wasn’t smartass idiotic, maybe not.
I dunno, I have a hard time being mad at Inigo Montoya.
He was at least handsome and with a purpose in life.
One state has consistently voted for democrats and one consistently votes for leopards. It isn’t really surprising that the state consistently putting leopards in power is unhappy with their current situation.
Oklahoma has voted for Republican presidential candidates all but once since 1952 (in 1964), with the Democratic candidate having failed to pick up a single county in the state in all elections since 2004
History. What you obviously weren’t taught.
You must be from Oklahoma.
Conservative =/= Status quo
Conservative = Regressive
I think we are interpreting this correlation in two different ways.
The demon buer sees it as:
bad living standards → vote republican
(because in this election the selling point of the republicans was the economy(/+immigration (because they also partly blame immigrants for the economic problems)), while for the democrats it was the the “protection of democracy” (which isn’t really the biggest concern of someone struggling to pay their bills (or also not desired if that democracy got them to where they are now)))
others are seeing it as
vote republican → bad living standards
(because if republicans are no good, and if a state has been consistently voting republican in the last years of the state’s local elections, then the state also won’t be no good)
(the arrow means “causes”)
(not directly directed at anyone, besides everyone who reads this post: ) Just because there’s a correlation, we can’t say in which direction the causation goes, if there is one.
The states that consistently vote Republican are also consistently amongst the worst states for quality of life. There’s a correlation there.
They also consistently take more money from the federal government than they provide.
I see the ones under republican state leadership, clamoring for change, yet in reality voting for the same assholes that govern them into the ground? Not sure how you’re not seeing that, though I imagine it’s willful
theres a reason education goes out the windows in red states… otherwise they might understand theyre voting against their own best interests.
its a priority to keep them stupid to stay red
it is. racism and hate go a long ways.
this might just be the dumbest thing i’ve ever read
Way to tell on yourself about your lack of education.
Oklahoma has much bigger numbers in the rankings there. USA! USA!
MA law doesn’t force insurance providers to cover gender-affirming hair electrolysis, so most don’t. Trans women with facial hair and cis women suffering from hirsutism are all expected to live with their beards and hairy shoulders.
Washington, Oregon, California and other states have laws on the books making it illegal for medical insurance providers to deny coverage of treatment for these conditions.
MA doesn’t get to do victory laps for its progressive bone fides until it gets with the program and takes care of its women.
“Its not exactly what I want so it sucks” is never a useful take for anything.
Agreed. It’s a good thing that “no victory laps yet” is not the same as “it sucks”.
“No victory laps yet” means “the work isn’t done yet.” You only get what you demand and are willing to fight for.
Not even remotely how your comment comes across.
Also, I’m going to disagree. Every win deserves its associated celebration of success. Saying it isn’t successful - and this is what I’m referring to with your comment not coming across how you intend - helps nothing.
It doesn’t mean its “over” to have a win. Its never going to be “over”. There will always be new issues to tackle, rights to address, support that needs to be put in place, etc.
But glossing over what has been accomplished as just “not good enough because of one issue” isn’t going to help or motivate. Its the celebration of the successes that provide the drive for more.
Your comment comes across as “Massachusetts may as well be Nebraska.”
Yeah, fuck those Oklahomans! Those idiots deserve to suffer and struggle.
That’s not the message to take from this.
Oh? What is?
That red states are shittier than blue states. An objectively true fact.
Even other red states say this shit about redder states: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thank_God_for_Mississippi
I know. How does that make my comment wrong?
We generally don’t hate people from red states, I’m in Oregon. We see them like a kid that won’t stop touching a hot stove. It’s more a disappointment than a “fuck em”.
Like maybe they are just stupid?
Apparently you’ve never had people tell you that you don’t matter because you’re from a red state. I’m trans, stuck in a red state, and get to have people tell me I deserve what the state is doing to me and my trans siblings because we were born here.
Obviously Texas wouldn’t be so red if we would just vote for Democrats, right? Therefore, we must be part of the problem! As long as one person votes blue then that cancels out all the red votes so we really have no one to blame but ourselves!
I voted blue. Fuck you.
Apparently you’ve never had people tell you that you don’t matter because you’re from a red state. I’m trans, stuck in a red state, and get to have people tell me I deserve what the state is doing to me and my trans siblings because we were born here.
Girl, that is absolutely bullshit, I am so sorry to hear that. I have family in both Alberta and Saskatchewan (Canada’s blindly right-wing provinces) and it is brutal if you’re not white, male, and hetero. Even moreso if you’re visually not one of those things, and you’re in a rural area.
One of my kids is trans, and we’re about to get a Con federal government, so we’re pretty worried for her. Who knows what care will be removed when Canada’s Trump Loving Party takes over (the Conservatives are looking like they’ll get a majority).
(For anyone who doesn’t know our parties, that’s the Federal Liberal Party (Centre/Centre-Left Wing), Conservative Party of Canada (Right Wing), New Democratic Party (Centre-Left/Left Wing), Bloc Québécois (far tougher to describe. They swing from Right to Left Wing.)
Could you share more about your trans siblings? I had understood that being transgender was relatively uncommon, and I realize there may be genetic or other factors involved. It’s new to me that multiple members of a family might identify this way, and I’d love to learn more if you’re open to sharing. Thanks!
Individual responsibility, bootstraps, etc.
Maybe. How many times does a kid have to burn himself on a hot stove before we accept that he’s just stupid and a lost cause?
Never. But we can still be disappointed. Not everyone in red states sucks, the majority of them seem to though.
Why you have to call them stupid?
Gestures broadly
You reap what you sow.
Some might say that makes you deserving of it, and others might disagree. But the apparent causal relationship exists outside of moral judgments.
That the states that consistently vote Republican are also consistently among the states with the worst quality of life, and that there’s a correlation between the two.
That Republicans don’t actually care about Americans.
That they keep voting for people who “love the working class” and who “have great economic policy” but every classically Republican state is a fucking shithole that constantly needs money from blue states to stay barely afloat.
It’s yet more evidence that the GOP don’t have any interest and/or ability to properly run a country. All their ideas fucking suck and everything they touch is worse for it, and their base needs to realize this. Also educated or not it’s so insanely obvious these days just how bad shit is and whose at fault but us North Americans(I’m Canadian, same problems here but more boring) can’t stop but chase the right when the center falters. At this point people should be mocked, this shit’s inexcusable in ways it wasn’t as much even only 10-15 years ago.
At this point people should be mocked…
That’s what I did.
Mocked, yes, but saying they deserve to suffer…I dunno honestly yea I kinda agree but I’m trying to take something more productive from the data.
Mocked, yes, but saying they deserve to suffer…
Well, is it not true?
Do you think it’s true?
That red states vote against their own interests. They have massive needs and lag on many wellness metrics, yet consistently vote for politicians who are happy to keep them that way via the policy they enact
Exactly. They’re idiots and they deserve what they get.
Man you seem pretty happy about it, almost like you want your country to suffer.
Every Oklahoman I have ever met would agree with this statement unironically
Blue-voting Oklahoman here!
…yepI feel called out.
I dont want my blue friends to suffer, but yeah i deserve to suffer for being born here.
I can’t believe they would vote for a different candidate after suffering under the current candidate! FOOOLSS!!!
