For people who misread the headline and are confused: one of the people Masterson allegedly raped (her trial specifically is still ongoing according to the article) is firing shots at Linkin Park’s new singer because she is a scientologist who turned out in support of Masterson.
What?
The new lead singer is a scientologist who supports rapists.
Damn. I might have enjoyed some new Linkin park but all this shit is so stupid. Who am I kidding I wouldn’t have enjoyed it that much.
To be clear, she allegedly was told to support him, went to his first trial, and has not been in contact with him or spoken on his behalf since. It’s very possible the veil was lifted, so to speak, at that trial.
So I don’t have anything to say about Masterson other than he’s a monster. But to share a related personal anctodote.
It’s very possible the veil was lifted, so to speak, at that trial.
A few years ago I started becoming more active with a friend I had grown distant with. She introduced me to her new circle of friends which included a guy named Barry. Who was awaiting trial for “something that was blown out of proportion”, this was an ongoing very long process since covid pushed his court date back like two years in total. So I met him a few times and heard him describe the case. But I was always skeptical of his story, how do you just wake up in a bush with a gun to a police dog with zero recollection of the night before?
But I let it slide in the moment because I was in a pretty vulnerable lonely place after a bad breakup, however I made DAMN sure to actually attend his trial. The only one of the friend group who did, and he was very thankful and called me a good friend. But I really just wanted to hear the story from the defense.
Barry didn’t mention the gun shots he fired as his ex girlfriend or the camera footage showing him stumbling around with a gun. He didn’t mention that he was shooting outside when his home is next to a school and it caused the school to close, also didn’t mention the threats he made. The lawyer for Barry couldn’t make much of a defense for him, just that he was in AA and doesn’t drink anymore.
Barry went to jail. And I made absolutely sure that everyone heard abiut what I learned. But the tradgey was that most people just thought I had a personal grudge against him. That I didn’t know how crazy his ex GF was and that she totally (probably) provoked him.
Long story short, it’s easy to talk around the truth to you friends, who of course will take your side. Going to a trial and hearing the evidence yourself can be a very eye opening experience.
Until she officially speaks out against the cult it is all speculation and cope from entitled fan apologists.
To each their own. I’ve watched a lot of movies with Tom Cruise and other shows with other Scientologist. The group is fucked, but I guess that’s not where I draw the line in who I choose to allow in my media life, but I get that others do, and that’s fine. I have my own moral lines with other things.
Until she officially speaks out
Have you heard “emptiness machine”? As far as I can tell it’s a song about how she was ripped apart emotionally/psychologically by the Scientology cult.
it is all speculation and cope from entitled fan apologists.
Then why is she still doing things for them and why is she still a member?
What a great idea, speak out publically against a cult she was born into who are well-known for harassing anyone who speaks out against them publically
Suck that Scientology dick some more. Her, and you, are part of the problem.
That’s just an article about her weak ass PR statement. She didn’t mentioned her cult even once, and called her fellow cult member a “friend”. If that’s denouncing Scientology for you then you probably also believe in Santa.
I agree it’s a bit lacking in condemnation, but it is something. You seem to have some strong opinions about it, which is why I shared it. I wasn’t sure if you were aware of it or not
I agree it’s a super guarded response and doesn’t mention anyone (or thing) by name.
“A bit lacking” is an understatement when she didn’t even mention it once. I also find it distasteful to only condemn the things happening to female victims, when she replaces a well known male victim - all while her cult causes more and more victims everywhere.
Definitely no less confusion after reading that.
Yeah, I tried. Link Pee new singer worship alien and defend rapist lmao.
That’s convicted rapist Danny Masterson if anyone was wondering who that was.
Was playing DOTA 2 a while back, ended up playing against a 5 man team that included an account named “DannyMasterson.” I asked if it was really him, and someone on his team gave a semi-answer like "it just might be 😉 "
So I targeted his hero, and did a lot of all chat messages about how he was a POS rapist that’s going to prison, and how scientology is a cult of predators. I just know that it was actually him, and he was with 4 other scientology cunts. We demolished’em. Never saw his handle again.
Personally as a life long LP fan, Chester’s death hit when it happend. At the time I wasn’t in the best place mentally and to hear someone’s work I enjoyed committed suicide was not a positive event. Through counselling and therapy I was able to work through my problems in a healthy way and I suggest anyone going through anything similar to try the same. Scientoligists are anti therapy and anti psychology. The thought that proven methods of counsellings and psychological aid could of helped Chester or anyone in a similar situation being undermined by his replacement hurts to my core. I won’t go into the other allegations this fact resonates with me the most but I don’t think I can be a LP fan right now, with my personal feelings.
LP ended with Chester.
This could be a good band, but its not LP.
Scientoligists are anti therapy and anti psychology
All cults are, really, because the therapist can see that the cult is basically an abusive partner x1000 and try to decondition the members.
“Plus, that money should be going to the church, or in this case your therapy sessions with us so you can become ‘clear.’ Don’t you want to give us $300,000 so we can tell you your soul is an alien and Xenu is trying to eat it or enslave it or something?”
I thought Scientology was all about the therapy and working towards becoming clear.
Nah it’s all a scam, it costs about $130,000 to become clear, and then another $30,000 ish to become level “OTIII,” Then another $130,000 to become OTVIII which is the highest current level, just to learn that South Park’s Scientology episode was actually accurate to what these people actually believe.
The Emptiness Machine, which is the song introducing her as vocalist, is her singing about how fucked up scientology is
She has no writing credit on the song man… Non of these lyrics are hers… Just incase I googled it as well and no mention…
It’s good to see so many people now recognize scientology for the dangerous and manipulative cult it is and hope this starts to extend to the others like Falun Gong who are objectively worse in many regards but their propaganda tools like Epoch Times and their show Shen Yun are bizarrely popular in the US and much of Europe with hardly anyone ever commenting on the torture, rape, murder, and all the typical evil cult stuff they do.
Le French resisted a bit of colonialism (from wiki/Scientology_status_by_country#France):
Since 1995, Scientology has been classified as a secte (cult) by boards of inquiry commissioned by the National Assembly of France. It was first designated a sect in a 1995 report, and then in a 1999 report it was classified as an “absolute” sect and recommended its dissolution.
In 2000, after ‘appeals for religious tolerance’ from USA President Clinton and his congress, president of France Jacques Chirac told Clinton to stay out of France’s business, noting “shocking White House support for Scientologists”. Alain Vivien, chairman of the Ministerial Mission to Combat the Influence of Cults, claimed that sects—primarily headed and funded by Scientology—had been infiltrating the United Nations and other European human rights organizations. In 2001, France passed the About–Picard law, intended to strengthen their ability to prevent and repress sects that undermine human rights and fundamental freedoms, and those which engage in mental manipulation. The law would allow courts “to order the immediate dissolution of any movement regarded as a cult whose members are found guilty of such existing offences as fraud, abuse of confidence, the illegal practice of medicine, wrongful advertising and sexual abuse.”
A 2009 case resulted in a fraud conviction against two Church of Scientology organizations and five individuals, and recommended dissolution, and a 2012 appeal upheld the convictions including 600,000EUR in fines. Though the prosecution had requested the dissolution of the Scientology Celebrity Centre and its bookstore, a dissolution penalty wasn’t possible due to a brief retraction of the dissolution law prior to the 2009 verdict and the prohibition against enforcing it retroactively.
🇫🇷 W
That’s cool and all, but this story is about Scientology.
If you haven’t escaped a cult you might not understand, but cults control their members in similar ways, and understanding how one operates will help you to avoid others.
Look up the BITE model
In a discussion about a cult
Brings up other, equally bad if not worse cults - specifically a Chinese cult
Whoa whoa guys, let’s not get crazy - this is about Scientology, remember? America bad, amirite?
Hmm
Brings up other, equally bad if not worse cults - specifically a Chinese cult
Whoa whoa guys, let’s not get crazy - this is about Scientology, remember? America bad, amirite?
The Chinese government hates Falun Gong, so if anybody has a pro-China bias, it’s the person agitating against Falun Gong in an unrelated thread.
And I’m saying it’s weird to try to shut down conversations about cults in a conversation about cults.
lol gatekeeping which cults we can talk about in a thread.
On Saturday Carnell-Bixler condemned Armstrong and Linkin Park in a statement, writing:
Dear Emily, If you’re not going to speak out against the human and child trafficking cult in which you are apart of and in which you enable by remaining silent on the crimes you know about then you have no right to fill the shoes of Chester Bennington, a true advocate. I don’t give a fuck that you are very close to the serial rapist. I don’t give a fuck that you lied in your “apology” instagram story. I do care that you participated, after being asked, in the cruel intimidation of Jane Doe 1 with your cult pals at court. I do care that you didn’t once mention that you are a member of a child and human trafficking cult that covers up the abuses and rapes of CHILDREN and adults. I do care that your parents work for OSA (the office of special affairs) of the cult of Scientology which have been ordering attacks on me and my family which includes murdering my dogs in the most inhumane and evil ways. I do care that they have been attacking and harassing my fellow sister survivors. You don’t speak out against Scientology not because you’re terrified of them. You don’t speak out because you are one of them. Shame on Linkin Park. Fuck you.
“Scientology P.I.’s outside our house all day,” she also wrote in an earlier Story. “Stole our trash… And other things. Documented.” Bixler-Zavala shared his wife’s statement, adding additional context and telling Linkin Park, “You should fire your entire team for not thoroughly vetting your choice. You’re a Disney level brand trying to make a comeback and you didn’t think to spend a little money on looking into her? Stop playing at the drive in’s music on your pre show playlist.”
I am 100% with the spirit of this statement. But people need to stop overusing “of which” and “in which”, literally even Matt Mercer (who I assume is largely responsible for the recent popularization of this turn of phrase) uses it wrong half the time. In this instance, it should be either: “in which you are a part” or “which you are a part of” but instead they used both, presumably in an attempt to sound sophisticated, at which they failed. Which is unfortunate because I love a good lambasting of scientology
I think you mean, “In which is unfortunate because…”
I see what of which you did there
Cool way to respect the memory of Chester you got there LinkedIn Park.
I hope the legacy of this band becomes more than that of any individual member.
- Chester Bennington
I’m not going to fault anyone for having problems with this. I definitely am not comfortable with someone who comes out of a cult that actively opposes treating mental health “replacing” Chester, a man who struggled all his life before tragically taking his own life.
But people do need to understand: The reason scientology STILL has so much power is not because tom cruise has so many thetans. It is because, like all good cults, they have MASSIVE amounts of dirt on their members. And they make it very clear that anyone who speaks out against them will be destroyed. If you thought a British PM fucking a pig’s carcass was a shock… There are similar stories with every cult and secret society.
So if the cult says jump? You jump. And while I remain very very conflicted, I do give Emily credit for being openly gay (a huge no no) and talking around regretting being part of the crew that was used to try to protect masterson. I would rather outright condemnation and apologies but… that probably won’t happen unless she is ready to be destroyed by the cult.
Leah Remini deserves mad props for how incredibly brave she has been speaking out against scientology. But she also is MASSIVELY “lucky” that she basically escaped while they were running massive damage control for tom cruise vanceing up oprah’s couch. And by the time they “recovered” she had gone from “Weren’t you on the beach episode of Saved By The Bell?” to too high profile for them to really go after. Almost nobody else is going to have that luxury.
And as purely a music fan? Not huge on The Emptiness Machine outside of that initial reveal. But I kind of loved most of the Emily covers of the hits and give mad props to the band for making it a point to change the tempo or remix the songs a bit so she isn’t just singing Chester’s part. Time will tell what the album versions are and if they touch some of the songs they REALLY REALLY REALLY should not touch
Stupid twat. RIP Chester and LP. That name shouldn’t be continued.
Why the fuck am I supposed to care about the religion of a performer?
Or am I now allowed to bash on all the christian performers out there too?
And I don’t give a flying fuck about masterson either. You have a friend, you fucking back them until you have solid proof in front of you. Which, she did. Once she saw the proof, she stopped backing him. End of fucking story.
People are fucking idiots about this kind of shit.
The only one who believes scientology is a religion is the IRS lol
They treat it as one.
Cult, scam, whatever. They suck, but that isn’t the point.
Idk i think the only thing religion has going for it is tradition. Scientology is missing the tradition component which makes me think followers are just really dumb ir desparate for connection. Scientologist celebs are trying to cash in their influence by selling it to the church and lying to dumb people to try to get them caught up in a cult.
I dont see a defensible position for someone like that. I would want to know who is doing that and not buy their stuff, personally.
Edit: she was born into it, so im wrong.
I see a defensible position:
Cults are basically abusive boyfriends x1000.
If you leave or speak out, goodbye all family and friends you’ve ever known.
She was born into this.
You ever been brainwashed, either by a cult or just an abusive ex? I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, but it would help you gain a deeper understandings of the inner workings of a cult, and how they retain their victims.
Her parents are like high ranking members, she was born into it. So either shes still in the church, which sucks but is more defensible than someone choosing it for themselves, or as evidenced by her queer lifestyle and song lyrics, shes left the church but doesnt want to completely burn bridges with all her former friends and family or possibly put them at risk by speaking out publicly.
The previous singer died from suicide and scientologists are very anti mental health treatment. I can’t blame anyone for being bothered by that.
It’s fucking dumb.
The only thing that matters is if she can do the job.
I’m not blaming anyone, I’m just saying they should use their brain for something useful.
The whole thing is beyond stupid and into absurdity at this point.
“Listen I’m not blaming anyone, but if you think a white guy shouldn’t be president of the NAACP, you’re just fucking dumb morons. All that matters is if they can do the literal job* (*not including the messaging or morals, just the literal job functions”)
It’s a fucking band
Are you deliberately missing the point?
no, I’m disagreeing with it.
It’s not the same thing as the NAACP at all.
It isn’t some kind of organization dedicated to anti-cult endeavor, nor even a band dedicated to anything other than making music. That’s it. That’s the entirety of what linkin park is. They’re an amazing fucking band that makes amazing fucking music.
Nothing about making music is predicated on the beliefs of the members unless they’re making music about those beliefs, and even then it doesn’t mean they have to do it all the time.
Are we going to flip out on Garth Brooks and Chance the rapper now? Both of them are openly supporters of a religion that has caused or condoned wars, genocide, and even today actively seek to crush the rights of other people. Christianity is just a big cult that demands loyalty and money and strict adherence to the rules of whichever sect of the cult you belong to, and nobody is up their ass for the actions of the rest of their religion.
Or is it only the cults we like that get a pass? Is that what it is? Sammy Davis Jr is cool, what with being a Satanist and jewish (at the same time, which is actually pretty damn cool), and Reba Macentire gets a pass because reasons, but not this woman that grew up in a cult we don’t like as much?
It’s bullshit. It’s empty headed drek.
Now, if Armstrong gets up on stage and starts trying to convert people that didn’t show up for that, that’s a different issue. If she starts writing songs with LP that tear down what they’ve always claimed to believe, that’s a different issue.
I simply do not give a fuck about what fiction a person believes in. It has nothing to do with the music unless they make it about that.
Anyone wanna tear Scientology down? Go for it! It’s a giant scam as well as a cult. Tear down all of them as far as I’m concerned. Make it illegal, remove all non profit status from all of the brain washing cults that get called religion. But that’s still a separate issue from some band making music.
It’s the old art vs artist argument, only in this case, all the artist did was get raised in a disliked religion, and then take part in a truly fucking stupid show of support for a fellow church member. That’s it. That’s all she has done, unless there’s something I’m missing that she’s been accused of personally doing? Is there, was she actively involved in any of the bullshit the cult did? Did she know about it happening at the time at all?
It’s a fucking nothing burger, and if anyone tried saying the same shit about someone that was wiccan, or muslim, or christian that did the exact same thing, it would be a shitstorm against the person trying to do so.
Shit, nobody can even point to her doing anything after she discovered the details of the shitstain to support him.
That’s the fucking point, it’s a witch hunt.
See, by your logic, it’s okay if I am a anti-semite for example, just quietly.
So long as I’m only funding and supporting my Anton Jew crusade off stage and off screen, and never writing a song that says “kill the Jews”, it’s okay to take all my money from those concerts and funnel it into my organization that manufactures gas chambers “just in case”.
A quiet tolerance of racism, bigotry, and abuse, leads to its proliferation. Period.
It’s not a witch hunt. Her organization is directly responsible for funding hate and attacks on innocent people. The money she earns from the band will fund this. It is perfectly reasonable to object to her being able to jump onto this band’s good reputation and use it to fund such efforts.
Or am I now allowed to bash on all the christian performers out there too?
Who the fuck is stopping you dumbass? Go right ahead.
No one asked you to care or asked your opinion.
If you don’t know the history behind Scientology and what happened to Chester, and why it matters. Sit the fuck down and stop acting like a fucking moron.
It’s an abusive cult you fucking moron! Would you care if she was a literal Nazi? Probably not, because you’re part of the fucking problem.
You do know that fedia.io has a rule about behavior, right?
Fuck cult, rape, murder and otherwise abusive spineless apologists like you!
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There’s a difference between incendiary and attacking an individual.
I criticized the idea, called it stupid.
While that may be taken to be an attack on anyone that holds the idea, it is a different thing.
Now, people being stupid is kinda on the borderline, and I probably should have been more careful in my phrasing, but I did specify that it was about this subject, not all subjects, or even that holding the stupid opinion makes them inherently stupid. Plenty of otherwise great people hold stupid ideas.
Which is kinda relevant to the subject as well. The new singer being involved in a cult only means that she’s stupid about that, not that there’s anything else going on about her that’s bad or dumb.
Also, my lemmy homie, tattling? The only way to maintain a given C/ or instance is to have clear statements of usage terms. Someone breaking those tarnishes the entire C/ or instance. Don’t believe me? Hexbear. Lemmygrad. Lemmy.ml. Even lemmy.world. They catch shit all the time because people just ignore the rules/terms.
A very gentle reminder to someone being directly nasty to someone else in violation of those terms isn’t tattling, and even if it was, that’s why reporting exists on lemmy in the first place. Nobody can moderate everything solo. Reports are necessary for that.
And, again, instead of just being nasty back, despite multiple direct written attacks, all I did is remind them that what they’re doing isn’t acceptable based on terms they agreed to.
You don’t want to get reported, don’t do shit you agreed not to do. We’re supposed to do that instead of getting into slap fights.
Man, people are just addicted to drama, and so locked into their own heads that they can’t step outside of it for even a minute.
People are fucking idiots about this kind of shit.
Hmmm, is she still a scientologist? Seems like a weird choice if she is, although a cult is a cult and that one is brutally hard to get out of. I think I can forgive people who sided with Masterson initially if their cult told them to (maybe not at much post-conviction) but I think it’s problematic having anyone like that as the front to LP because of the suicide.
That said, if she renounced the cult at part of this gig (and ideally Masterson too) I think I’d be ok with her. I think what LP is trying to do is ultimately as good thing, especially since they’re not trying to find someone exactly like Chester.
I really was enjoying Handmaiden’s Tale (the TV series), then I happened to read the lead character is a true blue Scientologist. That fact made the show unwatchable.
Yes she still is. She apologized for supporting Masterson (I think, she didn’t name him in the post). But she seems to be OK with her cult terrorizing Masterson’s victims, among many others.
To be fair she was born into it, it’s not easy breaking free from this kind of brainwashing.
Didn’t know she was born into it, that is especially difficult. Thanks for the info, though.
There is literally no proofs whatsoever of her being an active member of Scientology past 2012. Only this one guy’s word.
Well for starters there is a picture of her at a scientology gala in 2013. And she most probably still is, because it’s incredibly hard to leave scientology. They put an unbearable amount of pressure on you to stay/come back, and if they determine you’re a lost cause, you become a “suppressive person”. When that happens, all scientologists are forbidden from any kind of contact with the person. So for her, leaving scientology means losing her family, her closest friends she’d known since forever, and any kind of support structure.
Dead Sara’s drummer was also born into scientology. Chances that they both left are very slim. Chances that a scientologist would play in a band with a suppressive person are nil.
Chances that she left scientology, then decided in 2020 to come support scientologist Masterson, who would have been absolutely forbidden from interacting with her in any way, and with a group of scientologists also present: also nil.
Thanks for the context
She didn’t even mention the cult in her half assed “apology” letter, calling her fellow cult member a “friend”. The only way this whole setup would have worked would’ve been if she, at the first announcement of her being part of LP, renounced & denounced the entire cult for what it is, along with an actually truthful apology for being part in it.
From what I’ve read, they will do everything in their power to ruin someones life and career if they publicly leave Scientology. That’s not even denouncing it, just saying you’re not a part of it anymore.
Also people keep saying they want a “truthful apology”, but if her statement is honest then she doesn’t have much to apologize for. She said he was a friend, but then immediately stopped supporting him after hearing the evidence. I think most people would have done the same. So far though it’s all just their word vs. hers so I’m holding out on any real judgement until some kind of evidence of something comes out.
I’m aware of Scientology’s tactics. Her blocking the court seats is her being part of those tactics. Just like their goons who harassed one of the victims, or Masterson raping them.
And Masterson wasn’t a “friend”, but a fellow cult member. That’s why she was there, that’s why she blocked the court room to hold any of the victims relatives & friends. She’s literally part of the problem and you people are making excuses for her instead of calling her out. Also, her idiotic “apology” HAD to specifically call out female victims, while part of the criticism is that she replaces a MALE victim.
Honestly no idea what kind of “evidence” you want before you acknowledge the truth.
Tbh it’s really hard to reverse brainwashing and conditioning and speak out which means you lose your entire family and friends (that are also in the cult), whether you were raised in it or tricked into it yourself is even of little consequence.
To expect someone to say “oh hey I got a little professional success now I should by default make my friends and family and entire community hate me and make the most litigious cult mad at me (no way they’d want a piece of the success I’m leaving them for, right?), and go against all the crazy shit I’ve spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on trying to become ‘clear’ or ‘OTVIII’ (just to learn what South Park already taught us no less).” isn’t wrong but it is unrealistic. She’ll need a whole ass deconditioning really, or at least it’s something that will take quite a long time.
Cults are fucked, way more so than you may think, and this whole “why doesn’t she just leave” thing, it’s basically the same question as “why doesn’t she just leave her abusive boyfreind.” Maybe it’s impossible to understand either until you’ve been through one, idk.
You’re hitting several fallacies here. First, her being potentially brainwashed is not an excuse. Yeah, that may be how she got there, but that does not mean that is how and who she should be - let alone have her replace Chester of all people.
Secondly, it’s not about her success. No one should ever be in a cult like this, regardless of your fame. I expect the same thing from every other member too. However, in this case we have someone replace a SA victim that is in a cult that literally does the same fucking thing (and worse) to others.
One of the victims of Masterson and her husband, which this is kinda about, were also both members of Scientology. They even got their dogs murdered by them, yet they still fight - and that’s what every member with a sane conscience should do.
Should be? No, nobody should be subjected to that abuse. But she is, and has been since she was born into it. Some things just are whether they “should be” or not. It’s life. I bet if when she was born they said “will you defend our cult against rapists? If no say no and we won’t let you in, if yes say nothing.” She probably would have picked “No” had she not been a literal baby who had yet to learn english. But they don’t, they slowly ramp up the abuse until escaping is at least psychologically neigh impossible.
You can blame her for being a victim of this cult all you want, it’s not really my fight and my guess is you’ll never understand until you’ve been in a comparable situation (which is hopefully never) so it would be a waste of time. I’ve said my piece.
I don’t blame her for being a victim, I blame her for being an abuser. Cedric and his wife are victims. She is part of the problem.
Cedric and his wife are also victims. There are typically more than two victims involved in a cult.
The difference is I consider all the members of the cult who have been abused and manipulated into the position they’re in by the leadership to be victims, and you only seem to consider someone a victim if they’ve already started the process of breaking free.
Yes, like the other women that Masterson raped for example. But I’m sticking to what’s relevant to the topic of the article.
But you would also see the Nazis as victims, so I’m checking out at this point. No reason to keep talking to abuser apologists.
People that have reservations over her Scientology situation, I understand. People that are upset that LP got a new singer, regardless of who it is, I believe are selfish morons. When band members die or leave, the band should be allowed to move on. Chester was one one of a kind, and it’s super sad that he’s not still here, but when the lead singer in your band not only dies, but kills themselves and fucks over the band, then replacing that person should not be controversial at all. Mental health issues are real, and I have empathy, but Chester’s actions were ultimately selfish and the closest victims are now under fire for continuing forward.
Imo joy division becoming new order was the right way to handle such tragedy, it’s different because Linkin park were a record company manufactured band but he was in from the start and pretty much the only person anyone recognized plus he wrote a lot of the songs.
Otherwise you get record companies selling you tickets to black flag thirty years later who might as well be a cover band, it’ll get to the point recognized names are still topping festivals a hundred years after the first original member died of old age. It benefits no one but corporate copyright holders.
Nah, a simple name change solves the problem, as mentioned with Joy Division/New Order.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, when Dio took over they should have renamed the band itself to Heaven and Hell, Sabbath lives and dies with the combo of Ozzy, Tony, Geezer, and Bill.
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It’s not victim blaming to point out that suicide is a selfish act that has living victims. Like I said, it’s sad, but the reality is that when Chester killed himself, the band, his family, and those others closest to him were abondoned.
I’ve never been in the position Chester was in, and I don’t fault him for ending his pain, because as I mentioned, I can empathize with the situation, but he’s not the only victim.
You have absolutely not a single fucking clue about how it is to be suicidal if you truly believe this garbage.
You’re making an awful lot of assumptions about something you don’t know any fucking thing about. You have no idea the shit that has gone through my mind and the demons that I’ve faced. You have to be completely ignorant to not see that others are affected by suicide, that they are victims all the same, but the difference is that they have to keep on living with it.
You don’t think that Mike or anyone else had to sit there and live with survivors guilt, or wonder what they could have done to help him? Or his wife left with kids to raise all on her own, you don’t think that it’s selfish of him to leave them all high and dry? Fuck that. Maybe in your magic bubble where there aren’t consequences for actions, but not in the real world.
No, they neither have to live with it, nor is it selfish not to be able to carry that burden, nor is it their fault for having to go through this. Do you think the same shit about people who suffer physically? People with late stage cancer? Should they not decide for themselves at which point their life is not worth living anymore? Chester didn’t leave because he was selfish, he left because that was the only way for him to end his pain and suffering, and you’re blaming him for that - and everyone else who goes or went through similar trauma. You’re fucking disgusting, just like the band.
I’m not removing this comment bc I think the discussion about suicide has some merits but please stop with the name calling and review the community guidelines. Thanks
You should talk to a therapist, it might help your situation.
Username checks out?
It was somewhat selfish when you are in the situation Chester was in, and it’s psychological. He had a responsibility to fight that demon for his wife, kids, and family.
It was not his fault he had the demon to begin with at all, and it wasn’t completely selfish. We aren’t responsible for the mental ailments we are born with, but we are responsible to work on them and not cause others to suffer because of them. Chester had all the resources in the world to fight that battle.
I still completely empathize with the amount of pain he must’ve been in to make that decision, but I don’t absolve him of all responsibility from it. I don’t hate him or think he was a bad person for it at all, though. I very much hope he rests peacefully and his family can heal.
I think people with late stage cancer and people who suffer from severe physical pain are a different conversation, entirely.
Chester had all the resources in the world to fight that battle.
So do many cancer patients, but you’d probably not say they’re selfish for losing that battle with their illness either. They’re suicide victims, not suicide perpetrators. That’s also why people call for not calling it “killing yourself”.
I think people with late stage cancer and people who suffer from severe physical pain are a different conversation, entirely.
And that’s why this stigma still exists. Depression is an illness, and suicide is the last stage of succumbing to it. But we can go with other examples as well if you want to. There was this guy a few years ago IIRC who was under chronic pain, due to a rare condition. He was very much fully functional in a sense, just constantly suffering. He was still fairly young, I think in his 30s and tried for a long time to get assisted suicide without success (until he did, IIRC in another country). He had friends and family too, like most people, but he decided a long time ago that life was not worth living under the circumstances he was in. Do you think that is selfish too?
Can you even relate to any of those circumstances at all? Like, suicide is not something even a suicidal person does lightly. It’s a big and difficult step to take - even if you’re completely alone. But to take this step for someone who had a loving family and kids simply means that their suffering was still stronger, it still outweigh whatever brief moments of happiness they could feel, and whatever “responsibility” they had to their family. Speaking of which, you don’t see it that way, as you see yourself as a burden - and to an extend that’s what you are, even if people don’t like to talk about it. But the longer you’re sick, the more people will resent you for it. That’s an unfortunate truth as well that people have to understand. The people around you, are people you ultimately drag down into the abyss with you if you’re not able to get out of it. It’s in most cases just a matter of time, and it’s a crushing matter for someone who’s already down.
I don’t think she’s very good.
