Summary
Special counsel Jack Smith dropped 44 federal charges against Donald Trump, citing DOJ policy that sitting presidents cannot be prosecuted.
The charges, including election interference and classified documents retention, could be refiled after Trump’s presidency.
Critics, including Rep. Dan Goldman and former Capitol officer Aquilino Gonell, decried the move as a miscarriage of justice, asserting it places Trump above the law.
Trump and allies celebrated the decision as a victory, with Vice President-elect JD Vance vowing to prevent similar prosecutions.
Democrats fear Trump will seek political retaliation, deepening national divisions.
The United States is a fucking joke. The nation supposedly founded on the rejection of a king believes that one person is literally not subject to US law. I could not have more contempt for, or feel more shame about being an unwilling participant in the unprincipled hypocrisy of this absolute shit hole of a country.
Fuck the oligarchs that run this place. Fuck the fascist Republican Party. Fuck the cowardly Democrats. And fuck the moronic, fear-riddled people.
That is the biggest and most obvious show of the corruption of the US American “justice” system. It was long known as the best “justice” money could buy, but this is open disregard of any legal principle.
Well it’s still the best justice money can buy, just in a twisted, sinister kind of way and with a big emphasis on the money part
The average lifespan of an empire is 250 years.
The USA is 248 years old.
These facts are unrelated and I don’t remember why I brought them up.
Strictly speaking, it makes sense that you don’t ask the DOJ to prosecute their boss, considering if DOJ threw the case, he could not be prosecuted again later due to double jeopardy.
Instead, presidents are to be judged by Congress through impeachment, since Congress is supposed to be independent.
Does not really change anything since congress is too broken by partisan politics to do anything, but I just wanted to point out where the issue really is.
Here here. Fuck the entire broken system that keeps people so visibly and obviously above any semblance of justice.
If only we still had another month with a Dem president and his AG controlling the DOJ…
I mean a month is a short time, ideally we’d have had that the last four fucking years and had plenty of time to handle this.
Fairly certain and it appears obvious the DOJ believes the president is totally immune.
Part of the reason we are not members of the ICC.
Part of the reason Dick Cheney is not in The Hague right now.
Fairly certain United States has been a fascist country since at least 1790
Every single time someone tries to hold Trump accountable he claims it is a witch hunt.
Every single time the charges don’t stick because of intimidation or corrupt judges the public believes that it is a witch hunt just a little more and it is harder to get people to take it seriously.
This has happened so many times now that he has been able to win an election as a felon.
The DOJ knows that even if they successfully charge Trump now, his administration will get him out of it. Their only hope is to put it on pause and wait for an opportunity to actually hold him accountable. Because there is no way that can happen after he won an election.
that fat fuck’ll be long dead before any justice could ever be served. justice within the legal system, that is.
Their only hope is to put it on pause and wait for an opportunity to actually hold him accountable.
it’s fucking over. he won the election, and he’s going to fucking pardon himself, die, or both before anyone holds anyone accountable.
he’s going to gut any functional part of the legal system and get no reprimand.
Because there is no way that can happen after he won an election.
“A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.”
- Alexander Hamilton
According to what I heard on youtube from US lawyers, the statuette of limitation will run out by the time Orange Goo finishes with his current term. Leading to no trial. There is no pausing.
I wouldn’t go that far back, or say we’ve been a fascist country for that long.
I put a lot of blame on Dems closing ranks for Bill back in the 90s.
The root of the argument is semantic: The President has testified that he did not touch Lewinsky sexually. Lewinsky’s testimony, and that of her friends and colleagues claim he did.
But the bottom line is whether this constitutes an impeachable offense. Again, Starr’s report claims there is ample evidence of Clinton lying under oath, and concealing evidence of his relationship with Lewinsky to begin impeachment proceedings. Lawyers for Clinton declared today that the President’s transgressions were “personal,” but do not constitute an impeachable offense.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/did-clinton-lie-under-oath/
Like, people still act like trump has some mastermind legal strategy when he’s just ripping off Bill by blurring the line between president and person.
At the end of the day for decades both parties have agreed that regardless of which one of them is in charge, no one gets any consequences from the others.
We can’t count on those groups holding each other accountable. Voters need to hold at least one party to a higher standard, or literally no one is ever going to be held accountable.
Until we have a different electoral system there is no way to hold a party accountable without losing an election.
Pretty sure y’all just lost the election spectacularly, so might as well hold the party accountable now that the worst has already happened.
They already think it’s cause they didn’t go far right enough. They’ve got their heads up their asses as always and won’t change as always.
Yeah right? Might as well use these next 4 years, organize and rally behind a real third party no? No?
Oh y’all voting democrats again In 4 years? Blue no matter who?
Yeah that’s what I thought
Which third party has any seats in any state legislature? Which one has anyone in Congress or a governorship?
None of that will change in four years. If I quit my job and start right fucking now doing organizing - even though I don’t know what that entails other than dealing with people which I loathe - it will be a solid decade before any third party has any chance of controlling anything outside of a city council.
deleted by creator
For an honest attempt at it?
No, it’ll never be a fair fight.
But if we want a Dem primary in 2028, we need to keep demanding it, and we need to solidify around a candidate ASAP.
Voters beat the party in 08, and they’ve had to walk back a lot of what Hillary changed in 2016 to prevent that.
I still feel crazy that everyone ignored what happened to NH this “primary” but I don’t think we’re really at the point where Dems just appoint candidates without a primary.
We just need a candidate that refuses to concede until more than a handful of chosen states vote.
The worst part about the game of politics isn’t the rules. It’s that I’m forced to play.
Certainly the game is rigged. Don’t let that stop you; if you don’t bet you can’t win.
As true today as in 1987 when Heinlein wrote it
I don’t want to win. I want to not play this bullshit game anymore. ET on Atari is more fucking fun than this shit.
1846 is the clearer date to me.
What happened in 1846? Around the civil war?
We invaded México because we wanted to expand into their territory, i.e. Manifest Destiny.
If only the AG didn’t waste 3 years before filing charges.
How about 2.5 years in which everyone held off because they didn’t want to step on the FBI’s toes, and it turned out that they weren’t doing anything?
This is just like Obama giving Bush and Cheney a pass for war crimes and starting a war based on complete lies.
Yep. None of this is new, it’s the same song and dance.
I’ve criticized both parties for acting like voters have the memory of goldfish, but it’s getting harder and harder to argue they’re wrong.
People don’t remember the shit they literally lived thru already.
That’s almost insulting to goldfishes.
The Russia/Republican propaganda has been too strong to make anything stick. If you try to arrest Trump while he has enough followers to win an election then you’ll get a mob like Jan 6th storming whatever prison he’s held in.
It’s not as simple as you’re trying to make it sound.
Give me a break. These charges could have been pursued on day one, in Washington DC.
The administration sat on their hands.
Why do you think they “sat on their hands”? Do you think they are conspiring to help Trump? Do you think your internet armchair analysis of the situation is better that the entire DOJ and they just aren’t as smart as you?
Or is it the obvious answer that Trump has been able to get away with corruption time and time again due to Russian/republicans? And their control of our government and justice system? And the DOJ knows that if they try to prosecute Trump and the charges don’t stick that they won’t get another try.
Trust the DOJ to do their job when they just dropped their charges lol, ok. Sprinkled in some Russian/republican blame instead of a defunct system, chef’s kiss. Any other propaganda we need to spread today?
Trump was successful at delaying almost all of his trials at no fault to the DOJ. I repeat:
At Trump’s request, judge delays immunity filing in Jan. 6 prosecution
Your blaming of the DOJ is disingenuous.
I never said I blamed them, you’re just painting a weird conspiracy theory where the DOJ are the heroes/victims but “the rest of the goberment is controlled by RuSsIA AnD rEpuBliCans!!!” It’s been apparent for everyone, the rich gets a different justice system. The system has been defunct for a long time and was on full display for the last election. This is easy lay-up policy and legislation, make politicians responsible and accountable while defending democracy. You get crickets from any incumbent, everyone is very comfortable with how the system currently works (if you’re a politician).
edit: forgot to comment on the link,
Trump’s attorneys had asked to have until Nov. 21, instead of Nov. 7, to file an up-to-180-page brief arguing why Trump’s efforts to overturn President Joe Biden’s 2020 election victory
They asked for a 2 week extension, whether it’s bullshit or not that’s a pretty typical standard request from a legal team. It was more erroneous to imagine the actual court date going through when it was expected.
Trust the DOJ to do their job when they just dropped their charges lol, ok.
You imply the DOJ can’t be trusted to do their job because they dropped the charges. How is that not blaming the DOJ?
It’s no conspiracy theory that Russia has bot farms that push their narratives to change public opinion. Hell we have communities here on lemmy that have earned a reputation for doing that from all onlookers.
Sounds to me like a perfect recipe to round up and arrest a bunch of traitors to American principles. Was the thought trump would just shut up and quietly go away if we kept biding time or he lost another election. What, if anything, about trumps character would make anyone think that. 100% the government just dropped the ball on this. They won with trump in the opposition and wanted to time it well enough to win again and have him divide and weaken the republicans.
You’re talking about a criminal case, what does a month do for you? At every turn, Trump has consistently tried to delay the process. It has nothing to do with the DOJ or AG, they are working the system to intentionally delay everything until now. Why proceed either, he’s going to be president in two months.
He’s making a facetious point about the huge quantities of time Merrick Garland had to waste to create this outcome.
“they are working the system to intentionally delay everything until now.”
If only every criminal defendant could afford to do the same…
–It would probably be a moot point because it would be legislated away as a legal strategy by the same officials that were previously dragging their feet for Trump.
sitting presidents cannot be prosecuted.
The charges, including election interference
🤡
Election interference is legal if you do it so well you win.
This is honestly the biggest joke of them all.
Get ready for way, way more election interference.
If it prosper, none dare call it treason.
In fairness, that’s election interference over the last election. It just took a whole cycle to conclude that he definitely did do it. There’s no way he did it this time though right? Right?
No one could possibly be that daring that they’d do it and win, lose, then do it again to win again?
Second time must have been legit.
Wow I’m so shocked
Had 4 years to sort this and out the fucker in jail for treason and decided to dick around doing fuck all til a few months before the election.
Biden has the blood of 100,000 on his hands and the death of democracy in his lap. That’s his legacy.
Once again, Biden sticking to “policies” and “traditions” that are not law and facilitating terrible outcomes for the USA
Personally, I think the administration dragged its heels because it was stupid enough to want to run against Trump again. After all, if they had the bogeyman incarnate to run against, they could move to the right and still be second worst. And second worst wins elections, right?
Agreed. They still think being not trump is the easiest way to power since single identity politics is losing its charm.
Don’t tell me the whole democrats campaign was reduced to ORANGE MAN BAD, UPDOOTS TO THE LEFT
That and:
"I mean if push comes to shove we can help a small very specific subsect of you guys, after all the rest of you are doing exactly as well as our corporate donors want you to be and that probably means pretty good, we don’t think about it very much and figure your complaints are just people being needy.
But I mean what could the orange man even offer, he acts like there is something wrong too. He’s wrong and bad! Let’s stay the same, updoots in the center!"
Can’t forget Harris pledging to close the border and build the wall, tax breaks for small businesses and worthy plebs (home-buyers who’d payed rent on time for 3 years), or create “the most lethal military in history”.
First generational home buyers who lived in a corporate owned apartment complex and paid on time for the last 2 years.
Like literally only for immigrants who had been imported in and proven to be helpful to the economy.
And the business loans were the same way but only for black men who had already been running the business for 3 years in specific industries who has already received a pell grant. So like 5 people they likely new and wanted to give money to directly without giving it directly.
Hyper specific to help the least amount of people and then murderous war machine to finish anyone else off outside of that.
Democrats fear Trump will seek political retaliation, deepening national divisions.
No, it’s not a fear. It’s an acknowledgement of exactly what he has said he will do:
Trump has said repeatedly he will seek political retaliation, deepening national divisions.
This feels like a joke from Portal
“Test subjects fear I will kill them with turrets and fry whatever is left, even if it’s still alive. Mostly because of my plans to kill them with turrets and fry whatever is left even if it’s still alive.” - GlaDOS probably
English person here: I didn’t think he was classed as ‘sitting’ until he was officially voted in with the Electoral College and sworn in. Surely there’s still time to prosecute.
You’re right that he’s not sitting yet, but wrong in that there’s not time to prosecute before he is sworn in. And anyway, he’d be the boss of the prosecutors against him so he can retaliate with no fear of consequence.
Thank you for clarifying
I told my wife 4 years ago when these charges came in “If this becomes more than a slap on the wrist I will be amazed”, I am not amazed.
I’m actually kinda OK with this considering the circumstances.
With the republican’s capture of the presidency, congress, and the SCOTUS, there’s no way he’s going to suffer a day for his charges if the court pursued them.
The main problem was not sentencing him quickly when they had the chance. That’s the major fuckup.
Anyway, the dismissed charges are without prejudice. Which offers the opportunity (assuming trump survives his presidency, we don’t end up with a de facto republican dictatorship, etc) that he can be sentenced after his presidency.
But we all know how the courts love sentencing rich old white dudes.
I see it as a white flag. It’s not gonna happen now, and it isn’t going to happen later either. This battle they lost and that’s that.
Democrats need to start worrying less about Trump the person and more about the potential ramifications we will face in the near and farther future. It seems Democrats have a 5 year plan and Republicans have a 50 year plan, that’s why they keep gaining power and favor.
How so. Legally he can’t take office according to the constitution. And thereby his charges in Georgia and NY would hit him still, as Vance couldn’t pardon state charges. But yeah, we knew this would happen
deleted by creator
It seems counter intuitive, but you want as little of this of this floating around as possible while he’s in office. Act like nothing’s pending throughout his term, then reopen this the minute he’s out.
We don’t need him having more motives to try to dictatorially stay in power after his term, and stuff like clearly pending trials and sentencings hanging over him the moment he leaves the WH could give him that extra incentive.
then reopen this the minute he’s out.
I’ll take shit that will never happen for $800, Alex.
Who is going to stop Trump from just pardoning himself?
A heart attack before inauguration.
But then we have a couch fucker.
And I’m not sure which would be worse. Vance might be a bit more moderate on some things but his competence and ability to work with others makes him more dangerous on those.
I’ve been debating this with myself, and my conclusion is that Trump might be worse because Vance is at least a politician. He has some knowledge and “respect” (maybe) for the trappings of the office, whereas Trump gives no shits for rules or regulations and is all too happy to trample on every right and freedom we have.
But who knows, I could go both ways on which would be worse.
Vance is a smarmy piece of shit who will do anything for power and will bend over backwards for his owners who picked him to be vice president to make sure they had control when Trump dies.
Vance is absolutely much more the issue cause he won’t have enough charisma and self aggrandizing to stand up for his own ideas like Trump does that slows his party down and occasionally creates tension. He will just “yes and” whatever is needed to be done.
Vance is a smarmy piece of shit who will do anything for power
You just described the entire Republican party.
But more to the point, the other side of the coin is that either Trump’s views align with those of his owners, or he’s just as easily manipulated, and either way, he believes himself to be a dictator and acts accordingly. He has no morals and no qualms about breaking the law. He says that people who disagree with him politically should be locked up and talks about how he needs generals like Hitler had. He has been putting people loyal to him in positions of power since day one of his first term. What infighting he has created in the Republican party may slow him down, but it might create more collateral along the way from his cronyism and disregard for rules of politics. At least Vance wouldn’t be ignoring the FBI vetting his appointments and talking about replacing the heads of the FBI with people more loyal to him.
Both are bad for the country, I just don’t know if I can say one would be worse than the other. Vance is the corrupt official while Trump is the Florida man riding the high of who only knows what squared up to fight 5 cops who will probably win the fight.
Well I know vance aint crazy enough to just willy nilly and launch nukes, unlike trump who’s just batshit crazy, but he’s more capable to doing more damage to democracy.
Nothing for the Federal stuff, I guess.
He can’t pardon the state felony convictions he has, though. That’s the case that worries me in this regard.
You can’t pardon yourself if you haven’t been charged or if the case was dropped 😉😉
Oh yes you can.
Ford’s pardon of Nixon states:
Now, Therefore, I, Gerald R. Ford, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974.
Whether or not any crimes were charged is irrelevant. Whether or not any charges were made and then dropped is irrelevant. “All offenses.”
I sit corrected.
Who says so? Nixon was pardoned for a crime he wasn’t even charged with.
They can’t arrest a husband and wife for the same crime 😉
This is how our nation falls. Not with a bang, but cowering and whimpering.
The charges, including election interference and classified documents retention, could be refiled after Trump’s presidency.
Yeah, like he’s not going to view that as something hanging over his head the next four years…
If his dementia continues to progress at the rate it is President Vance may be our bigger problem by then.
On a side note “Life and Times of Tim” is one of my favorite shows and why Im always willing to explain things when I see that little picture of his face.
But mate…
America has literally already had a literally demented Republican president who was an actor when younger.
This is just a reboot of Reagan, and while we may hear about Trump’s stuff while it’s happening, I’d be surprised if he causes more harm in the next four years than Reagan did.
And when Reagan got too bad, his VP did take the reigns and the next election.
Back then it was HW Bush, who was the ex-head of the CIA and the son of one of the Business Plot leaders where American capitalists were floating the idea of overthrowing FDR and the American government to join WW2 with the actual nazis…
So if Vance ends up running things in 2 years and being the candidate in 4 years?
Shits been worse before.
For fucks sake, Reagan’s handling of AIDS and literally smuggling crack into poor communities is still fucking shit up forty years later, not even getting into Reaganomics.
They both sucked, and Trump’s next four years will suck. But it ain’t the end of America unless everyone gives up without a fight.
Regain (and Nancy x100) were both racist bigots, but Trump (and Vance will be if it gets him attention) are fascist wannabe dictators that have plans of dismantling the whole government, healthcare, and education systems in the US. They have plans to help further the Rights push for voter suppression and ways to cheat (and/or exploiting loopholes without shame).
So Nancy might have shaped dementia Regains policies for the worst, and Bush Sr. may have committed all sorts of crimes against humanity using the CIA, but Trump plans to run us into the ground and sell the scrap to whatever dictator says the nicest things to him.
And Vance may be even more dangerous in that he will have zero control of his party, and will changeling into whatever he’s told to be by whoever will let him be “President”. He would sell his family for fame “or whatever makes sense” in his void of emotion brain.
have plans of dismantling the whole government, healthcare, and education systems in the US. They have plans to help further the Rights push for voter suppression and ways to cheat (and/or exploiting loopholes without shame).
All things Reagan also worked towards…
It’s the same thing, we just find out about it faster now than we used to. And the country was starting out in a better place when Reagan had his turn as far as regulations to prevent it.
So things will suck, but it’s nothing new. That doesn’t mean give up, it means keep fighting and plan to keep fighting for as long as we’re alive even if a Dem is president in 2028, don’t get complacent. Because both parties have spent the time since Reagan deregulating shit like campaign finance, which has allowed the wealthy to tighten their grip on both parties
The only thing that Reagan worked towards was the jar of jelly beans in the Oval Office. He was an actor and the last three years his mind was gone to Alzheimer’s.
Now if your meaning Reagan as you in his apparatus that actually made all the decisions then yes you are correct.
How is that different than trump again?
Went from oligarchy to patriarchal oligarchy reaaal quick there lmao
Everyone’s going to shrug it off like they did in russia when putin was beginning to spread his roots. Then they’ll cry 'it’s not the people’s fault, it’s him!".
That was always the plan
The party of law and order…for everyone but themselves.
Democrats sat on their ass for 4 years and bailed Trump out.
Yup. Jack’s hands were tied by SCOTUS.
It is good that he didn’t dismiss the charges with prejudice tho 'cause that means they can be brought again.
Dropping them now actually prevents a Trump Admin appointee from getting them dismissed with prejudice. it sucks that trumps delay tactics let him run out the clock, and it’s unclear of Garland was malicious or incompetent in how long he delayed appointing Smith. Hopefully we come out the other side.
Lot of good that decrying’ll do now.
Democrats are done, elect a progressive party
Dems are too coward to vote anything else than blue no matter who
Their blues are just republican lite, we need actual progressives. Bernie was blue and they burned him, like every progressive. So it does matter who
It’s third party time
This is what America voted for. Cthulu help us.
You know, for the first time in my life I understand the Cultists from Lovecraftian horror. If there was some ritual we could perform to awaken an Elder God to devour the planet, I would be about ready to join in.
Merrick Garland needs to be remembered by history as an all time coward. The way we use Machiavelli to label a traitor, we need to use Garland to denote the most limp, failed and feckless human being.
Here’s everything you need, press this one button and the majority of the country will celebrate you perpetually and history will call you a hero… Doesn’t lift a finger, throws up down the front of his shirt, falls asleep.
Fuck Merrick Garland, without qualification.
The blame is squarely at the feet of McConnell, Obama, Biden, Orrin Hatch, and finally Merrick Garland.
A timeline:
In 2010 Obama nominated Kagan to SCOTUS. A nomination criticized by Hatch as blatantly partisan. Hatch said that he had known Garland for years. He added that, if nominated, he would be a “consensus nominee” and that there was “no question” he would be confirmed.
Then in 2016 with the Scalia vacancy, McConnell made up the fictional “Biden rule” to refuse seating or even hearing a nominee. Hatch then claimed that this process could proceed if an uncontroversial nominee was proffered. He again mentioned Merrick Garland:
"The president told me several times he’s going to name a moderate [to fill the court vacancy], but I don’t believe him. [Obama] could easily name Merrick Garland, who is a fine man. He probably won’t do that because this appointment is about the election. So I’m pretty sure he’ll name someone the [liberal Democratic base] wants.”
Then of course, Obama caved to Hatch’s public request further elevating Garland in the public eye and to the approval of centrists and liberals. McConnell still refused to acquiesce, and dragged it out into the next presidency.
Then with Trump’s electoral win, and some backroom dealing to get Kennedy to retire, the federalist society and the heritage foundation got their 40+ year wish. A conservative court, despite the rules, the circumstances, the math being otherwise. And all with zero fight from the Obama Administration.
Fast forward to the Biden administration in 2021, FOREVER still entertaining the notions of bipartisanship. Even while the GOP will offer a handshake while donning a Freddy Kruegeresque sharpened gauntlet of knives.
So of COURSE Biden nominated Garland to AG in the foolish hope that Americans and the GOP would somehow view this move as apolitical, above the frey, etc.
Garland is a symptom just like Trump is a symptom. They both stem from the same problem. That problem being a new aristocracy, a political class that seeks to simply preserve their places in power, and completely purge the citizenry from the body politic. A new Jim Crow, but one of bureaucracy. One that exclusively values the opinions of the political class over the wishes of the people. Garland is the example of this system as is Obama/Biden and many others. Meanwhile men like McConnell will easily exploit this system, and men like Trump will gain power as a reaction TO this system.
Power has been removed from the people (what little we had) and now the GOP and the majority of the DNC seek to keep it that way as it keeps them in power.
If you think I’m wrong about the DNC, just look at their actions. They’re floating Rahm Emanuel to head the DNC. They’re already talking about a Harris/Buttigieg ticket in 2028 (because you know, fuck the voters, their primaries, their caucuses. Who needs a Democratic process?)
And it’s not a nobody saying this. It’s guys like David Axlerod saying it on the LibDem mouthpiece network MSNBC.
