This is gonna be an unpopular opinion here but telling people who have used Windows their entire lives to just switch to Linux as if it’s that easy is entirely unhelpful and makes the Linux community look elitist and out of touch.
I mean… they are out of touch. I’m sure its possible to have a pain free switch over but when I had trouble the advice was interspersed with quite a few caveats. In essence Linux is ‘easy to setup but…’ Still gonna try again though, also guys that laptop you all said was dying because linux made it crash is still working fine on windows with no sign of trouble.
Life is a long learning experience. Installing (or asking that nerdy relative to install) a Linux distro is no biggie anymore and when picking a good all-around distro like Mint, for example, pretty much anyone who has some basic experience on computers can do it.
I do agree that life is a learning experience, but I might say that you’re overestimating what “basic experience on computers” means, and I tend to find that this is fairly typical of people who have more advanced skills because this stuff is basic to us. But we can sometimes lack perspective in that regard.
Basic experience on computers for most people means “can use Office apps, can send emails, can more or less use the internet”. Essentially, they can use the computer for their work or for some light entertainment. It certainly doesn’t mean that they know how to or that they even can configure the BIOS to boot from a USB, or for that matter what the BIOS is or that it exists. It doesn’t mean that they can use the terminal, or use WINE to run their favourite Windows applications or troubleshoot an operating system that is entirely alien to them. I’d even go as far as to say that most people don’t even know what an operating system is - to them, Windows is the computer and they don’t know or care about anything different. This is the kind of person I’m talking about. Everything you said might as well be Ancient Greek to that person.
Relevant XKCD
I can read the manual that comes with a camera and it will teach me how to set it up and take some pictures. Most (at least all that I’ve used) linux distros have something similar. Unless there’s some sort of incompatibility with your system it should not be an issue. If you do have problems you get to choose whether or not to troubleshoot them but in my experience doing so on Linux is a lot easier.
When I first set up Ubuntu I was astonished by the fact that I could just download a windows executable and double-click to start it. But I loved how simple it was to download stuff using the package manager.
I had a bit of experience with the Windows terminal and had been coding for two years at that point so I was able to almost fully switch over within two weeks and found it significantly easier.
I get it. That’s why I included the part about “the family tech guy”. And I think some sparkle of interest must be had in order to learn about that stuff. Or any stuff, like learning Ancient Greek. One has to be able to use a web search (or write a prompt to an LLM) for “beginner install linux” or some such. If the spark isn’t there, maybe buying a new Windows/Mac is the correct way to go.
To a newbie, Windows is just as alien as Linux. If someone has no computer experience, they have to learn Linux, Windows or Mac anyway. May as well get them started with the software that isn’t actively trying to invade their privacy and paste ads in their face.
A friend of mine was a console gamer and we convinced him to game on a PC.
We walked him through an Arch install, via the terminal and the wiki for his first build. I think it took 6 hours to get him to the point where he could reboot into a GUI. He broke something within a few days (an incompletely typed chmod -r command). Then we showed him EndevourOS’s installer and he was back up and running in about 2 hours.
He knows how to use the Arch wiki, he can enable Steam debugging in order to Google any errors that occur, he isn’t scared of the terminal (though he prefers a GUI if possible.
Previously he’d only ever used Windows to run Microsoft Office in a corporate environment. Now he has, on his own, installed a NAS with an ZFS array running Docker, Jellyfin, Sonarr, Radarr, etc. He doesn’t even have Windows installed (and would probably have a hard time learning it now)
Most people who are really against Linux are Windows users who have spent years learning Windows and don’t want to spend the time to learn something different. Sure, it takes some time, but the skill is well worth the time that it takes to develop.
I think I understand your broader point as saying that a switch to Linux being as simple as switching from Coors to Miller is underselling the fact that Linux is a fairly different environment/ecosystem. You’re right on that. But as someone who’s made a switch to Linux (Ubuntu) after a lifetime of other OS use, I have to say that I think it’s worth it, even with the learning curve.
I have been exclusively a Mac user and Apple cultist for at least twenty years now and only knew Windows (3.0-ME) prior to that. I have a few 2011 Intel Macs that I use for work and home exclusively (two of which were hand-me-downs) and have not been receiving updates for awhile now. I’m not in the financial position to buy a new computer and I randomly read that Ubuntu runs great on these old Macs. So I decided to give it a try. It was a bit of work that was bolstered by the fact that I do have a bit more computer know-how than the average person (but nowhere near most of the people I see on the Fediverse). But I’ve come to love it and am now working my way over to this being a permanent change.
I’m only sharing this as an example that even deeply entrenched people can learn to use this stuff. And I was a Mac guy! Apple holds your hands and does so much thinking for you! I’d think with Windows, the switch over to something like Mint would be fairly easy, given the GUI (I specifically chose Ubuntu over Mint because Mint’s GUI is described as “Windows-like” and I personally hate all things Microsoft—which is definitely a “me problem” lol—but I’m probably going to load it onto an older ThinkPad of my wife’s that we want to set up for our son).
It’s easier to use than Windows
Just give GUI troubleshooting instead of CLI
It’s easier to use than Windows
LOL, good one!
I especially loved the user friendliness of my distro randomly disconnecting my BT mouse and refusing to reconnect. Had to edit grub to get it back to working order.
Or how I changed the lock screen image through settings. Now I can see it - in Settings. Only. Because if I lock my device, I still see the old one.
Or how on Kubuntu, my previous distro, the applications’ menu (the one with “File”, “View”, “Help”, etc.) just disappeared from all apps. Spent two days trying to sort it out and ended up switching to Tuxedo OS.
Such an easy to use OS, especially for those who’ve never done one bit of troubleshooting themselves!
Spoken like someone who hasn’t had to troubleshoot Windows
Could that be because he’s had fewer issues with Windows and hasn’t had a need to troubleshoot it?
Windows 11 is a shitty version of Windows, but it’s not Windows ME or Vista. It sucks because of the arbitrary CPU and TPM requirements, plus having AI forced into a user’s desktop. Not to mention Microsoft is dragging its feet fixing performance issues in Explorer.
It’s still very stable on good hardware with stable drivers. Point out the actual shit parts of Windows, not lazy callbacks to the days of Windows 98.
Could that be because he’s had fewer issues with Windows and hasn’t had a need to troubleshoot it?
It’s actually the opposite. Worked in IT for 20 years, had to troubleshoot every conceivable issue with Windows.
Here’s the difference: 90% of the time, once you’ve installed the OS, it’s smooth sailing*. If it’s not, reboot, and it will be fine. For the fringe cases, just search online to find help.
This last bit is what kills Linux as “user-friendly OS” - you have one distro, but solutions you find are for five different distros and each one looks and feels slightly differently, so things are in different places.
EDIT:
* I should’ve added: TODAY. It used to be VERY different, but these days? It’s mostly “fire and forget”.
I’ve also spent my fair share of time in IT. I can’t recall any common issue with the reliability of Windows in the enterprise. Single user issues that originally appeared to be an OS problem later turned out to be caused by hardware. Usually hard disks, though I did find a bad stick of RAM once.
The vast majority of issues I typically saw were application related, usually industry specific software. What I did come to hate was industry applications written to run on the Java Runtime environment. Especially when a user needed several different apps which were not all compatible with a common JRE version. There’s DLL hell, dependency hell, and then there’s JRE hell.
1000% this!
2080 ti and 128gb of ram - it is definitely not stable and unlike Linux isn’t ready out of the box
So you can afford 128GB of ram, a motherboard that can support that, a processor that can address that… and you’re running a 2080ti?
It’s such an odd configuration I wouldn’t be surprised if the Nvidia driver were causing the issue. Contrary to the concept of a “unified driver,” the code for your GPU probably hasn’t been touched by nvidia in a while. Either that, or maybe you’ve got all that hardware, but you’re running Windows 8 or something else odd.
W10/11
And yes the gpu needs an upgrade, but I don’t have a server in need of it yet so it stays in my personal computer
And on Linux it handles everything I need
You seem to be confused. We’re talking about an “OS for the masses”. What you’re talking about is so far beyond the “high end for the top tier enthusiasts” that it’s not even funny.
It seems like a weird middle-ground that might be used in a weird 5 year old server. Probably not great for gaming. But I too had stability issues with all of my windows installations. (1.5 laptops, a prebuilt and later the machine I use now which I started using with windows) All of them had regular BSODs (though the laptops were a little older and might not always have been that way) and one pc even broke the Windows Bootloader so that I couldn’t boot it anymore.
If Windows doesn’t work on that, then it’s not for the masses
Here’s the problem with sweeping statements on the Internet like the one you just did - you never know who you’re talking to.
You have no clue how hilarious your comment reads from the perspective of someone who’s worked in IT for the past 20 years. :D
Here’s the difference between Linux and Windows TODAY (that’s a CRITICAL point) - the average user gets the OS installed, fires it up and just uses it. If there’s a problem, a reboot will fix it 99% of the time. For that 1% there’s a bajillion different forums where they’ll find help.
Now, Linux? You install it, fire it up, and it runs without issues. Or it doesn’t! You use an app, and it works - or it doesn’t! You start searching for solutions online and find that the issue you’ve had has been resolved but on a different distro, things look different on yours and you have no clue how to proceed.
Windows is not a perfect OS, but it’s as good as it gets (next to MacOS) in terms of “I’m John, this is my first computer, I just learned how to log in and now I want to have some fun”. Linux is FAR from that, still.
Empirically, you are getting Windows and Linux mixed up
Also more end user devices are Linux than Windows
Linux is ideal for people who don’t want to spend all day troubleshooting and not getting anywhere. It’s for people who want things to just work without extra effort
Can’t compare to Mac personally
Empirically, you are getting Windows and Linux mixed up
I’m honestly not sure you understand what “empirically” means… But I might be wrong! Please elaborate!
Also more end user devices are Linux than Windows
Yes, nowadays especially, when people are trying to “stick it to the US”. Which doesn’t change the fact that most of these will return to Windows within 6 months, and even with them it’s still an insignificant minority compared to the hegemony of Windows and MacOS.
Linux is ideal for people who don’t want to spend all day troubleshooting and not getting anywhere
I’m sorry, WHAT?
It’s for people who want things to just work without extra effort
You have GOT TO be joking right now…
Please elaborate!
Through my own experiences not just what I’ve read. Constantly being asked to fix “Windows not working” and there never being any fixes found
stick it to the US”
Google and Valve are US companies so I don’t think people are sticking it to the US when they use their products
I’m sorry, WHAT?
Install and forget, the only issue I’ve had that isn’t a 5 minute fix is a broken pipe error on updates that doesn’t interfere with anything.
You have GOT TO be joking right now…
Have you tried either? Windows is always blue screening, black screening, or having apps freeze
Steps to troubleshoot Windows:
- Reboot, pray
- Google the error, if any
- Randomly change registry settings, delete files, install software on the advice of random Internet people/LLMs until the software works or the randomware kicks in.
- Thank god you’ve never had to touch a Linux terminal, clearly a fate worse than death.
- Reboot again, just in case
Looks fairly similar to what you would do on Linux. Change registry to config file (unless you’re using Gnome, then it’s both). You’re right though, on Windows, people don’t usually have paragraph long commands to paste into the terminal to fix some issue. Instead, on Windows you have Microsoft support posts where a “Microsoft Community Support” non-employee pastes non-helpful boilerplate tech support copypasta which are somewhat adjacent to the user’s issue.
Linux at least gives us useful logging and the software packages have documentation that is accessible without paying for a Microsoft Support contract.
The Linux community support can actually fix your problems without boilerplate copypasta and doesn’t cost anything but you’ll get the customer service that you pay for.
Event Manager.
You do know I made that very point about how Microsoft’s support knowledgebase is garbage these days, don’t you?
Linux Community support can help you fix your issue. Once greybeards become jaded in a given community though, you see more and more “read the man pages”… which would be helpful if not for the fact that some of them are as concise as a freight train.
Linux at least gives us useful logging
Mate, don’t take it the wrong way, but you’re living in a fantasy world if you think an average user has any semblance of idea as to where logs are or how to read them.
The Linux community support can actually fix your problems without boilerplate copypasta
LOL, nice one! :D
I’ve read “just recompile the kernel” together with “just switch to [distro_x]” more times than I can count to… :D
Randomly change registry settings, delete files, install software on the advice of random Internet people/LLMs until the software works or the randomware kicks in.
See? Here’s your problem. You’re doing random stuff without understanding what it does or even without a guide. Try that on Linux and tell me how well your OS works. :)
In general, seems like you’ve been sheltered from Windows for the past, I don’t know, 15 years? In terms of reliability and stability, 10 and 11 are on par with MacOS.
Sfc /scannow
Dism something
Are the most common troubleshooting steps and that’s in command prompt
If that doesn’t work then registry
If that doesn’t work reinstall the whole OS
If that doesn’t work just accept that x not working is part of the experience
Windows never has issues, does it?
Not like that, it doesn’t.
I’ve never heard of someone using bcdedit to change a boot flag, so a Bluetooth adapter will behave.
The lock screen problem I’ve seen myself a while back. At least in my case, I did not have permissions to the session manager config file, and the gui tool did not account for that. But I think I had to install the tool from the repo. It wasn’t part of the base install.
The menu problem could be a Kubuntu or early plasma issue. Either way, not something I’ve ever seen in Windows.
Hey, thanks for being the voice of reason in this thread!
Windows is, by all means, not a perfect OS. But people claiming that it’s “easier to use” for the average user are just detached from reality.
More like the “Tech Wizards” like Linus from LTT have the elitist attitude of being good with Windows means they should automagically be “Tech Wizards” with every other OS. Or the elitist attitude of just expecting the hardware you bought that’s Windows compatible should be Linux compatible or it’s a failure of Linux. No body does that when switching from Windows to Mac or Mac to Windows. When upgrading to the latest version of Windows and suddenly your hardware is not compatible anymore, nobody says, OMG all of Windows is a failure. It’s Microsoft’s vendor lock-in strategy that has forced companies to spend their engineering dollars primarily on Windows.
I think people are pretty lucky today, that there is a high probability that their hardware will be supported out of the box with Linux. It never used to be that way. You just bought Linux compatible hardware, just like people bought Windows compatible hardware and Mac compatible hardware. If it wasn’t for the BSOD situation in Windows caused by crappy Windows drivers that forced Microsoft to develop and enforce WHQL certification. OEM manufacturers wouldn’t have all unified around the same IP’s for the components in their machines. This allowed the IP vendor to do the Windows and Linux driver support. With out that, all these Windows users would be stuck with Windows10.
So how about a these “tech wizards” take a bite of humble pie, learn the Linux way of doing things and go to their local LUG and get help, so it is “that easy”. So they spend 20 minutes getting setup and learning the ropes instead of assuming they know everything and expecting everything to be done the Windows way. That’s what we did, twenty and thirty years ago.
Switching from Windows to Linux on an older computer is like when you finally get around to clearing the bathtub drain after years of hair and crud building up. Who knew a bath could drain that fast!? And now there’s no pool of water building up when I shower. Anyway, I highly recommend both Linux and clearing the drains.
Nice analogy. I should clean my shower.
Having to use windows 11 for work for the last few years.
(1) Randomly a program on the taskbar just has an invisible icon. Like you can click it but if you don’t know it’s there it just seems like that program is gone. I keep waiting it to be fixed after every forced update 3-4x a week. Still happening.
(2) Sometimes the entire process just disappears graphically. Not even an invisible icon on the task at. Still running in the background but it’s gone in the UI. Have to manually kill it or restart.
(3) I can’t unzip multiple ZIP files at the same time. Like I can’t select multiple ZIP files and extract them all into their own folder. Something that worked since I’ve used windows. Worked on windows 10, 7, and XP. It now just unzips only the file you right click even if multiple are selected.
I’m sure there are more but I avoid using windows and mostly just use it to connect to a work VPN and SSH into my redhat VM. Still, all 3 of these really common issues have existed for at least two years. The first two are constant on MS teams and Outlook. Literally no excuse, they are windows apps. Total garbage OS.
At my work IT requires admin privileges to kill processes in the task manager and it’s some real psycho shit.
If it gets bad enough I just yank the cord, fuck em.
Yeah, when I started at my workplace it took me a week to realize my computer was on W11 and not something archaic. Definitely did not impress.
Where is the conversation about the mountain of e-waste that’s heading to landfills if a concerted effort is not made to put Linux on millions of machines and to put those machines into the hands of people who can benefit from them?
Generations worth of peoples E-waste *
Let’s not forget we produce 3, 4, or more models of phones, tablets, laptops, and so much more each year, per manufacturer and there are a shit load if brands. That’s an alarming planet amount of E-waste and we don’t have the raw materials to keep up this pace forever, the energy supply. It’s totally outlandish.
We need to not be carbon neutral we need to massively be carbon negative.
I don’t wanna be a politics guy in a Linux sub. But this is not just a problem with Windows or even the choice of software. This is a fundamental problem with capitalism and won’t simply go away if every company suddenly replaced every OS with Linux. The same material incentives would still exist. Look at what Android OS has become. Would it be better for nerds like us? Sure. But software freedom goes hand in hand with the economic structures and incentives of our economic system. Windows is used because of how unfriendly it is. Linux is not used because of how much freedom it gives the end user. And if it is used it’s a special packaged restricted version of Linux.
If you happen to be a economics nerd and a Linux nerd I can’t recommend this video enough. There is too much to be said on how we got to this state we live in today in a single comment.
i’ve only ever used linux for servers as a web dev but friday i decided to erase windows on my laptop and install mint and i’m basically obsessed now (the best part is how updates just happen but they don’t restart your computer randomly when you don’t ask)
Everything seems to be pretty plug and play flawless on mint. With the exception of some not so good kernels the last 2 updates resulting in little hiccups on steam. Everything else is polished and great.
i think the only thing i found that doesn’t have an equivalent is google drive (which mounts as a drive on windows and streams files) :(
You can mount Google drive (even better, Koofr) in Linux.
does that use space on your drive? the thing i liked in windows was it just streamed the files so I didn’t need all the space available (my full drive is like 400gb)
It doesn’t. You can mount it as a network drive.
oooh great, that was my main concern! (i didn’t want to try it and then end up filling up my hdd)
Unless it’s a kernel update!
It only asks you to restart?
Yes? I was just trying to provide information.
deleted by creator
Windows is becoming increasingly uncomfortable in that regard. I’ve been thinking about switching to Linux Mint for a while now.
Make a flash drive bootloader so you can preview what it is like? Why not?
if it is something I would like to do.
I did that 2 moths ago and rarley boot into windows any longer. It’s a learning curve for sure, and I’m at the bottom part of it, but it feels nice to expand your knowledge bit by bit.
Yeah, I love the DIY mindset but sometimes it feels like people are trying to learn to surf in big punishing waves and deciding that if they can’t learn to surf those that surfing is too frustrating.
It is totally legit just to dip your toes in bit by bit, thank you for making that point!
Id run Linux if it could run the apps I need efficiently
use alternatives if possible
It’s not possible
This is very realistic and fair, I don’t subscribe to the ideologist out of touch bs personally even though I first compiled Gentoo 20 years ago.
I run Mac as my daily driver for convenience and stability but use the terminal for a ton of things and SSH into various Linux servers for my work. I run a VM in Parallels for the handful of apps which only work on windows, and generally avoid them unless they’re the only option.
Basically, what I’m saying is even if you’re dependent on some Windows only apps, you might find you have a better quality of life by making those the exception (running them in a VM) but using a more stable OS as the underlying OS.
What apps?
Ableton, FL Studio plus all the vsts I use. Plus all the adobe I use plus all the games I play that are windows only
Linux has great DAWs, bridges for vsts, alternatives for Adobe software and tons of games. The issue is your unwillingness to try something new, which is fine, but that’s not a knock to Linux.
I’ve used gimp. I pay for Adobe. I paid for FL and Ableton and used them for over 10 years. Why would I switch?
Name a real alternative to Adobe Acrobat. Especially Pro. Adobe has their crap on lockdown. And they know it, and they rape your wallet for it.
GIMP is good enough for me, and it may be a good cheaper alternative for budget minded professionals. But GIMP’s UI and workflow design pale in comparison to Photoshop. I haven’t used GIMP 3 yet though, maybe it’s gotten better.
All the games that I play are Windows-only too and they run just fine via Proton.
Yeah I don’t feel like running an emulation or a script to just play a game though. If I want to use Linux. I’ll use it on a laptop for web browsing. It’s a useless OS for me personally for every day life that has very little support from other companies.
Yeah I don’t feel like running an emulation or a script to just play a game though.
You open Steam, click Play, and the game launches.
The same as it does on Windows.
I swapped from Windows 10 specifically because I didn’t want to be in the Windows 11 and forward environment. (I use Arch btw)
I really don’t regret it, the set up was really painful but once that was done, the KDE had so many good features that I immediately felt at home. I’m floored by how good Proton/Steam is at handling games, I don’t think I’ve had to skip on any game due to my OS (so far).
CachyOS?
I’m on good ol’ Arch Linux with plasma KDE
You’re a better man than I. I just dipped my toes in Arch by going with CachyOS.
Hey chad, I hadn’t heard of CachyOS until you brought it up, good on you for finding an OS that matches your needs and going for it
It tweaked my interest when the forums said steam works great with it. And it does! Been playing RDR2 on it and my laptop only has the built-in graphics chip.
Linux mint and pop os are winner so far
Na Bazzite and Fedora
Won’t say fedora is a good substitute for windows user.
I’m really curious what things people can’t get running or didn’t have good enough alternatives for in Linux? Obviously, if you are a professional in X field and you need a specific program that will not work on Linux for your job, then Linux is not for you at that job. You didn’t choose MS Win or MacOSX, the company that makes the software that you need to do your job made that choice for you.
If you are not a professional, and you pirate Adobe XYZ (or whatever), and feel like you must have it on Linux, and that GIMP or Krita (or whatever) are not good enough, I don’t know what to tell you. Ask yourself, if MS and Adobe found a way to require you to pay full price for that software, or you could not use it at all, would you pay? Or would GIMP or Krita (or whatever) suddenly be good enough? Is having that software (when you are not a professional) really a good reason to stay on an operating system with so many other drawbacks?
In my experience:
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MS Windows Explorer is crap. I ended up buying Directory Opus to get a decent file manager. Too many good ones to mention in Linux (though I admit, most are not as powerful as DO; maybe Dired in emacs comes closest?). (DO is awesome - if you are stuck on MS Windows, I highly recommend it.)
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KWallet (and similar security apps such as KeePassXC), the various clipboard apps, the various text editors, the media players, etc. are excellent in Linux and don’t have alternatives in MS Windows that are as good or as easy to install. Actually, I guess it comes down to the repositories having everything, and much of it being installed by default. (Of course, if you are just streaming stuff through your browser, media players matter much less.)
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The choice of window managers and desktop environments is a killer feature for Linux. MS Windows barely even has virtual desktops.
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I am not a graphics professional, so for me, GIMP and Krita are fine. And Inkscape. And Scribus. (And, for many people who are not me, LibreOffice Draw.)
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I do do a lot of writing. LaTeX (several types) and all supporting software is super helpful, but must be found and installed separately in MS Windows. Will pandoc run natively in MS Windows - you have to install python first, right? It is python, right? I’m not sure, because I didn’t need to worry about it when I installed it on Linux, from the repository. On MS Windows, you’ll probably have to worry about it.
Sure, as mentioned above, you can install many of those on MS Windows. Are they in the MS Windows store? Do you have to update them all individually each time there is an update? I don’t - they get updated when I update my system, along with the rest of my system.
One little observation sort of sums up the Linux / MS Windows debate for me: in LibreOffice, no matter which program I am using, I can open or create a new office file of any sort. Last time I used MS Office, you couldn’t create or open an MS Word file while in MS PowerPoint, nor the opposite. Instead, you had to open MS Word separately. MS Office is a ‘suite’ in name only. LibreOffice is a suite, designed to go together. Linux distros sort of feel like that too. MS Windows (last I used it), not so much.
(Obviously, I have feelings about this. Been using Linux since 1998, so yeah, feelings.)
edit: spelling error / typo
Plenty of video games that will not run on Linux simply because of stuff like anticheat. Like Apex Legends (ran fine for a while but got blocked again recently) and Valorant, just to name 2 I’m personally aware of that’s stopping some of my friends from going to Linux.
You can say that dual booting would fix that, and my bf actually does that, but that’s obviously not a workable solution to the vast majority of people.
As long as games like that won’t run on Linux it’s simply impossible for a lot of people to switch.
CoD, Fortnite, basically any major multiplayer games are case by case basis. While most of them have turned to microtransaction shit I thought others should know a few big names. Check out resources like Arewewanticheatyet and The protondb.
I can’t think of a single game, which is blocked by anticheat, that isn’t a microtransaction infected mess that uses FOMO to compel people to login daily.
I thought I’d miss those kernel anticheat games, but there are more good games than I have free time. So if some of those games disqualify themselves it doesn’t affect my fun. I have MANY high quality games to choose from even without the option to play Apex Legends.
Linux is the best OS. Thanks to Richard Stallman, Linus Torvalds and the Linux community.
I just installed Mint on my gaming TV table. I’m currently struggling to install a driver that works with my displaylink adapter. I’m also having an issue with my VTT (Arkenforge) where it fails to update and crashes.
Welcome to the Linux experience :) Good luck, have fun!
Hahaha, thank you. To anyone wondering, I deleted the automatic updater out of the Wine directory and that has fixed the crashing, and I’ve given up on the driver for my USB to HDMI adapter and I’m going to just use VGA.
I knew there would be some growing pains, but I’m mostly surprised at how much stuff just works out of the gate, and how relatively easy it’s been.
Once you start customizing your shell/terminal and learning hotkeys, you’ll know you’ve made it! 😁
I’ve managed to banish all but one windows and one osx install from my house. What’s stopping me is a bazillion little windows utility programs for things like updating firmware on radios and such, and some hardware integrated commercial software: Ableton Live, and Serato DJ. I’ve tried lmms, mixxx, ardour, xwax, and many others. I just haven’t been able to be creative with making and mixing music with the open source tools out there. Mixxx is getting really close, but doesn’t have video integration last I checked.
I keep asking these two companies when they will put out a build for linux and have been met with varied responses from corpo garbage to laughter. It’s disappointing.
I love Linux. But my biggest problem is recommending it to users that use more than just the browser (and maybe some office suite), that I know won’t be comfortable with the command line (and who don’t want so spend time learning it).
As soon as it comes to hardware support (printers, scanners, heck even Nvidia graphics cards) you will at some point run into an error that needs you to use the command line to fix it.
I’ve heard many times “everything can be done in GUI”. But people saying that are almost always people using the command line regularly. In my experience this just isn’t the case.
And even if everything could be done in GUI, the most fixes you find online are terminal based.Firefox likes to crash with the nvidia driver
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I tried Linux Mint, and enjoyed my experience and even setup everything and then when I booted up Factorio Steam didn’t use my 3080 somehow. Pop OS worked but I didn’t like the experience. I’ll have to give Linux Mint a shot again.
That is almost certainly because Factorio has a native Linux version and Steam installed that instead of the Windows version. It was trying to use OpenGL and defaulting to CPU rendering because you likely haven’t altered the default configuration.
If you force Steam to use steam play, it will download the Windows version and run it through Proton which will use the right hardware.
I’m confused. Shouldn’t me downloading the native Linux factorio and native Linux Steam be enough? Why would it default to something else?
It is enough, provided that you have your system configured correctly. Which, in this case, is designating a graphics card to use. Without that it defaults to using CPU rendering.
Most people don’t want to deal with the headache of configuring their systems and would rather use something more automatic.
That’s what Proton does for you. If you’re using Proton then it can assumed that you’re gaming and so defaults can be set to support that.
Whereas people use Vulkan for many different projects and so it chooses safe defaults and depends on further configuration by the user (which Proton does for you).
Native Linux games work just fine (I play native Rimworld every week or so), you just have to configure your system manually.
Or just use the preferred method of running Windows games via Proton. You’re going to be doing it anyway in order to game on Linux and so it is often more work to run the native version than it is to run the Windows version and let Proton handle the automatic configuration.
I’ve not played Factorio but I’ve seen a vidjeo about it. How is the Windows version on Proton better than a Linux native version?
Wouldn’t the correct answer be to fix the graphics driver or configuration? And why doesn’t OpenGL just work? Or better yet, Vulkan?
It’s this nonsense that keeps people locked in to Windows.
Running the native version requires the user to configure their system correctly and then it would work. Most people who are coming to Linux from Windows are not interested in editing config files or using the terminal and, in any case, the vast majority of Linux gaming is done by running Windows games via WINE.
Proton is WINE packaged with the software and configuration scripts so that it ‘just works’ without user intervention. If you’re on Linux, you can install Steam and Go to Settings -> Compatibility and check ‘Allow Steam Play for all other titles’ and, from that point on, it will install the Windows version of the game and run it with Proton with no user interaction (other than clicking ‘Play’).
It’s this nonsense that keeps people locked in to Windows.
It isn’t nonsense, it makes perfect sense.
You can follow the error messages (which it prints to stdout when the game launches) and determine what the problem is so that you can fix it. The problem is completely understandable, the game logs would show exactly what device it was using and you could see what piece of software is responsible and go and look at the online documentation for that project to determine the exact configuration change that you need to make.
That’s how you should be troubleshooting problems, but you can’t do that on Windows because everything is a black box and provides little to no logs. If you’re lucky you’ll get an error message.
If you have a problem on Windows you first reboot and pray. Or, if that doesn’t fix it, you search random social media or forum posts, apply arbitrary registry changes recommended by Reddit comments, upgrade drivers, downgrade drivers, install motherboard firmware and dig through the various Windows GUI menus, which are change completely between Windows 8, 10 and 11 (but not 9, which doesn’t exist for some arbitrary reason), to locate a switch or checkbox that you can flip (and reboot again) until finally the problem resolves itself seemingly on its own. To me, this is the nonsense.
It shouldn’t require editing config files, except maybe in an Nvidia Optimus or AMD Switchable Graphics configuration. The fast/efficient GPU support was a dumpster fire the last time I had Linux on a laptop with it.
I know what Proton is.
No, it does not make perfect sense that a Linux native version of a game is more difficult to use than the Windows version on Proton. That may be how it is, but it does not make sense. Whatever method WINE or Proton uses to connect the Windows game to a supported graphics API in Linux must be entirely possible to do in a native Linux version of a game as well. For whatever reason, the game developers either chose not to or were incapable of developing that code.
At the third party application level, Windows applications are a black box. That has nothing to do with Windows, though. Complain to third party developers
It reads like you lack experience troubleshooting on Windows. If you’re praying to some higher power to make your software issues go away, you may also want to revaluate your troubleshooting methodology. Nearly everything you said can also apply to troubleshooting issues with Linux. Except for the whole skipping of “Windows 9”, which no one truly cares about.
You clearly feel a lot of hate towards Microsoft, and they certainly deserve a lot of it. However, it serves no purpose to resort to exaggeration and hyperbole.
Probably what I’m gonna do. I used to live in a country where it was completely normal to illegally download software from ThePirateBay, and that’s how everyone got their Windows versions, but I don’t even feel like doing that anymore.
I stopped using windows while using Win XP, maybe 16 or 17 years ago. When I try using current windows I become useless, I can barely figure out how to use it.
That’s how I feel when I use Linux or MacOS
I used windows for over 10 years, I just feel like its changed a lot since I last used it, to where I barely recognize it.
Opposite for me. Windows 8 was the big change for me haha.
I didn’t pay much attention to the changes after XP. Next thing I saw (years later) was the win version with flipping windows all over the place, that worked more like a cell phone. I was totally lost. Anytime I’ve used windows at a job, they were always using older versions that I could figure out.
Too bad, only 1 out of my approx. 150 customers have their IT dept. using Linux as server during my 6 years in - the rest of it is Windows… all the users have either Windows 10, 11 or they use Apple.
Halp.
Edit: not counting the educational users, as they come in hordes
I know, most businesses only use windows. Its like they got stuck with it, and are afraid to leave.
LOL the suppliers I work with ONLY Support IE 6 to 9. If they could still get away with DOS and intranets they would.
